General Discussion

dkf

(37,305 posts)

50. Do you realize the payroll tax holiday contributed directly to the debt and the deficit?

Sun Apr 14, 2013, 05:07 AM

Apr 2013

Do you understand the trust fund is the excess contributions over payments that are invested in treasury bonds?

So now that the payroll tax doesn't cover benefits the trust fund uses its interest payments or bond sales to cover the shortfall. But as benefits increase and the fund starts selling more of its treasuries to cover what payroll taxes don't, it is projected that in 2033 all the bonds and their interest will be gone from the trust fund.

Upon that day benefits promised will exceed expected revenue by 75%.

So what do you do?

If you cut payments to the amount the fica tax collects then yes there is no further impact on the deficit, but a 25% decrease in benefits is significant!

If you believe we should cover that difference out of the general funds then you believe SS will directly contribute to the deficit and debt.

Of course there's the third option...and you've fallen for Manny's best case scenario featuring unemployment under 5%. Good luck with that one.

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I Love Social Security [View all] sabrina 1 Apr 2013 OP

What is the poverty rate of the rest of the population? dkf Apr 2013 #1

Are you mad bro? Rex Apr 2013 #3

Lol, well sometimes people reveal their true 'sentiments' late at night, or is it early in the sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #6

Ya, but that was sadz. Rex Apr 2013 #8

I know. I would like to know if anti-Social Security people are also anti-Insurance policies in sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #11

You need to read up on the projected expenses and revenues. dkf Apr 2013 #12

Josh Mandel?? You're giving us projections on 'entitlement' programs from a Republican? sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #13

Using CBO numbers which politifact confirmed as being from the CBO. dkf Apr 2013 #15

You didn't answer my question. What does SS have to do with the Deficit? sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #17

If you believe SS has no impact on the Natl Debt then I expect you think there will be a 25% cut dkf Apr 2013 #18

Seems like the simple solution would be to lift the cap and raise the SS tax. SunSeeker Apr 2013 #22

RAISE THE CAP!!.... RAISE THE CAP!!.... RAISE THE CAP!! ErikJ Apr 2013 #149

The trust fund will not expire. It currently has a surplus of over 2 trillion dollars. Too bad the sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #23

I have no idea where you are getting your numbers from...not from SS trustees apparently. dkf Apr 2013 #27

Still waiting for you to explain how SS contributed to the deficit. sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #29

He has nothing, just like from the beginning. Rex Apr 2013 #31

I guess I thought I would get something, after all if you go to all that trouble to make a statement sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #35

Well he never bothered to explain why he gets his news from Rex Apr 2013 #39

It would contribute in the same way the tax holiday contributed to the deficit. dkf Apr 2013 #40

Raise the cap, increase taxes on the entities that can afford it, cut big war funding... Done. grahamhgreen Apr 2013 #43

Woah...easy there... Rex Apr 2013 #45

But first they need to admit the problem which they are avoiding like the plague. dkf Apr 2013 #49

Exactly, the first step to recovery newblewtoo Apr 2013 #98

This is the question I've been asking.... dkf Apr 2013 #100

How about we just let all the old people die? What utter garbage you are bringing here. SS pays sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #104

While we wait for GOP to jump on board with that, should we just sit quietly by and do nothing? Hoyt Apr 2013 #82

Why is SS a part of these discussions since it had nothing to do with the deficit and doesn't cost sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #108

Because it does impact the debt through borrowing. Hoyt Apr 2013 #109

Wait, you are blaming the creditor for the borrowing of the debtor? Again, you are not being clear. sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #110

Sorry, but money you and I paid in went to pay SS benefits for folks our parents age. Not right, Hoyt Apr 2013 #121

You couldn't be more wrong. There is a two trillion dollar surplus in the trust fund right now sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #126

That surplus is just accounting smoke and mirrors. To pay out using Hoyt Apr 2013 #129

And there's the old right wing lie they've telling for generations. I had hoped we wouldn't resort sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #132

I don't want to be mean, but I don't have a clue what you are trying to say. sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #47

Do you realize the payroll tax holiday contributed directly to the debt and the deficit? dkf Apr 2013 #50

Oh Bullshit. SS has two other sources of revenue and has shown a SURPLUS every year sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #51

Learn the difference between debt and annual deficit, and you might understand. Hoyt Apr 2013 #133

Debt, deficit, SS is a separate fund and has nothing to do with either. You need to learn sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #140

Your FUD won't work. Nice try. Rex Apr 2013 #30

social security trustees use pessimistic projections Babel_17 Apr 2013 #85

I forgot to mention another point Babel_17 Apr 2013 #89

Thank you, how refreshing to see that at least some people here actually understand sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #141

Projections show the trust fund expiring in 20 years madville Apr 2013 #53

Those projections chancge every year and are based on the direst of situations. sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #54

SSDI and OASI are running deficits madville Apr 2013 #65

Are you aware that this has happened 8 times in the history of SS? sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #76

You are assuming jobs come back to the USA madville Apr 2013 #136

I'm not assuming it, I am expecting it. I am working with millions of other Americans to sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #142

What makes you think that the Federal Govt will 'only provide SS'. The Fed Govt DOESN'T sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #4

That was sadz. Rex Apr 2013 #5

enjoy it while you can, certain politicians are proposing to start cutting it nt msongs Apr 2013 #7

I would love a country that didn't waste hundreds of billions on defense quinnox Apr 2013 #10

I remember when pitting programs like Social Security and education against each other was solely suffragette Apr 2013 #24

It's like Paul Ryan is posting on DU. LuvNewcastle Apr 2013 #26

dkf isn't a Republican? UnrepentantLiberal Apr 2013 #37

I'm a card carrying volunteering and canvassing Democrat. dkf Apr 2013 #42

How do you feel about raising the cap? grahamhgreen Apr 2013 #44

Maybe back to the 90% level. dkf Apr 2013 #66

Do you feel that way about other Insurance policies? Auto insurance eg? sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #81

Personally, I think SS should be "wildly redistributive." Laelth Apr 2013 #84

Like I said... UnrepentantLiberal Apr 2013 #48

Well if you don't consider any of them Democrats then I guess not. dkf Apr 2013 #67

I despise Ralph Nader. UnrepentantLiberal Apr 2013 #80

Lol, well, that was a short and sweet slap down of that particular talking point. sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #143

Well, those elections shouldn't have been as close as they were. UnrepentantLiberal Apr 2013 #156

I never agreed with him running for president. It was not the way to make a point. I always sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #157

The more anti social security people tell me they are Democrats, the more I realize sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #52

see post #61 "It has attached itself to the Democratic Party" very much so Dragonfli Apr 2013 #64

In the Internet, anyone can say they're anything. 2ndAmForComputers Apr 2013 #128

LMFAO n/t L0oniX Apr 2013 #95

It still is, the difference is moderate Republicans are called third way Democrats sometimes Dragonfli Apr 2013 #61

Exactly. Same as the third way in the UK acted, which ushered the Tories back to power suffragette Apr 2013 #74

Wow, there it is right there. The propaganda we are seeing, right here in this thread! sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #86

3rd way Dems are so far right they make Eisenhower look like a Democrat. L0oniX Apr 2013 #96

Of course, he couldn't anticipate 3rd-Way thinking: "Where else are they going to go?" AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #123

So you fell for that conservative strategy of divide and conquer? daybranch Apr 2013 #25

No I don't have a gun but I do know how to read a chart. dkf Apr 2013 #28

Your chart has a very major flaw. It mentions the Deficit as an expense, (thanks Bush and your sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #32

The chart is projections, which is a nice way of saying speculation. Rex Apr 2013 #36

I know, it is so transparent the way they try to distort these things. I guess if you read sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #144

+1. You make a very good point here. Very brave of you to make it. graham4anything Apr 2013 #38

It isn't a point, it's a Republican fabrication based on a false premise /nt Dragonfli Apr 2013 #62

A very good Republican point, so yeah, very brave to make it on a Democratic forum sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #87

Yes very brave to mimic RW talking points, but he didnt make a point. rhett o rick Apr 2013 #112

I saw 42 today.God, I admire what Jackie Robinson had to go through. Even from his own team. graham4anything Apr 2013 #115

I am guessing you are an ornery sock. Love to know your other rhett o rick Apr 2013 #116

as Popeye said "I yam what I yam". (and I always loved spinach). graham4anything Apr 2013 #117

Don Drysdale. rhett o rick Apr 2013 #137

You are correct. There was no point. sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #145

Figures you would come out against this ... Trajan Apr 2013 #101

I checked the numbers. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #106

Nice rant but no substance. What do you recommend? rhett o rick Apr 2013 #111

What have the republicans every done for the working man in history. Even big banks owe FDR their demosincebirth Apr 2013 #154

I love Social Security as well. Apophis Apr 2013 #2

I am so glad that your parents are okay. I will be right there with you in that fight. sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #33

K&R silverweb Apr 2013 #9

Every respectable country in the world has a system like Social Security Art_from_Ark Apr 2013 #14

Exactly so, Art. suffragette Apr 2013 #78

And hello back at you :) Art_from_Ark Apr 2013 #158

Rainy with sunbreaks suffragette Apr 2013 #159

It's been pretty bewildering Art_from_Ark Apr 2013 #160

It sounds like you've had a lot to deal with emotionally suffragette Apr 2013 #161

Golden Week is a series of spring holidays that come in succession Art_from_Ark Apr 2013 #162

Sounds like a time of renewal and Spring is the natural season for that suffragette Apr 2013 #163

I've seen the trailer Art_from_Ark Apr 2013 #164

Great post. LuvNewcastle Apr 2013 #16

I couldn't agree more 'any politician who proposes the destruction of or even a cut to social sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #146

Where's the jobs Boner kitt6 Apr 2013 #19

Thank you for a well thought and well spoken post MrYikes Apr 2013 #20

Regardless of who it is or what political party they claim to belong to. duffyduff Apr 2013 #70

Compassion and dignity suffragette Apr 2013 #21

I think you are not alone, suffragette. sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #72

I think we are far from alone suffragette Apr 2013 #77

The fight is going to have to be fierce on our side to protect it. They have become blatant now sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #79

Yes, it has become blatant suffragette Apr 2013 #90

Thank you for posting that G20 speech. I was thinking about it when the proposal was announced sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #107

Great political ad! graham4anything Apr 2013 #34

k&r forestpath Apr 2013 #41

Thank you for this excellent overview. klook Apr 2013 #46

social security and medicare.... madrchsod Apr 2013 #55

Add public education to the mix, too. duffyduff Apr 2013 #71

I think most everyone loves the Social Security program.. DCBob Apr 2013 #56

Baloney. You are repeating lies from the Cato Institute. duffyduff Apr 2013 #69

Salami.. I dont know anything about the Cato inst.. DCBob Apr 2013 #75

Oh Sabrina - this is a magnificent post. myrna minx Apr 2013 #57

Great Post...Thanks for this! KoKo Apr 2013 #58

Excellent post Sabina. 99Forever Apr 2013 #59

K&R - Excellent tribute to the ability of one person to change everything reformist2 Apr 2013 #60

Very well put together! Dragonfli Apr 2013 #63

You're right. It's not just legislation, woo me with science Apr 2013 #68

My paternal grandparents were FDR Democrats Oilwellian Apr 2013 #73

Oilwellian, what a beautiful post, it actually made me cry. Especially the part about your dad sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #91

Thank you, Sabrina Oilwellian Apr 2013 #119

No, thank you for posting in my thread. You and some of the other posters who provided examples of sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #155

I like it on Facebook :) Babel_17 Apr 2013 #83

Thank you! n/t sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #148

Beautiful piece. ++++ DirkGently Apr 2013 #88

I wouldn't be here if it weren't for Social Security and the New Deal. Cleita Apr 2013 #92

'I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Social Security and the New Deal' sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #94

No "REAL" Democrat on DU or anywhere else would ever be for cuts of any sort to SS. L0oniX Apr 2013 #93

Bravo, sabrina1 !!! Zorra Apr 2013 #97

Hell must have frozen over zappaman Apr 2013 #99

Lol, well I guess it must have. But you realize you may be ruining my reputation now ... sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #102

Had a nice long talk with a rep in D.C. Rex Apr 2013 #103

Yikes! I was with her all the way until you approved. Now I will have to reevaluate. nm rhett o rick Apr 2013 #113

Sincerest Apologies. zappaman Apr 2013 #118

It's cool. I agree with her and ............... you. nm rhett o rick Apr 2013 #120

Lol, you guys are funny! n/t sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #150

"Roosevelt insisted that the new program not look like a dole, his aides later explained" Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #105

Thanks for posting. I am going to ask Skinner if he can add a feature so I can rhett o rick Apr 2013 #114

...and change your nickname to rec o rick too? L0oniX Apr 2013 #124

Perfect. rhett o rick Apr 2013 #138

The Woman Behind the New Deal: The Life and Legacy of Frances Perkins Ruby the Liberal Apr 2013 #122

I have not read that book, but I have read a great deal about Francis Perkins. She is a fascinating sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #152

Rec'd, even though it's on a kittycat board just1voice Apr 2013 #125

Just got a bill for a chest X-ray Iwillnevergiveup Apr 2013 #127

More proof of the success of Democrats like FDR and Francis Perkins. sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #153

Thank you Sabrina. JEB Apr 2013 #130

athis issue is exposing the those infiltrating our party. fascisthunter Apr 2013 #131

Thanks for this. hay rick Apr 2013 #134

Sabrina, I thank you for posting this information. I am grateful SS has been there for me. classof56 Apr 2013 #135

I am so thrilled at the people, real people like you who have posted in this thread offering proof sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #151

Right on. sarcasmo Apr 2013 #139

SS is a bedrock DEM PRINCIPLE, lazly cast asunder by Obama in his fetish for "bipartisanship" w/an blkmusclmachine Apr 2013 #147