General Discussion

Babel_17

(5,400 posts)

264. The logic of outrage being a bad thing but the 4th estate reviewing it being a good thing

Sun Apr 14, 2013, 01:38 PM

Apr 2013

can be seen as being up for debate, imo. The 4th estate recognizing its grievous flaws is due in part to that being a story that sells. Thank Senator Sanders and many others for that being the case.

If Chained CPI is destroyed why are prominent supporters of the administration arguing its reasonableness?

I know that our side loves to run ads showing the other side going back on what they once said. Did you see the video of Reagan saying, leave SS alone, it doesn't contribute to the debt?

Well, the Republicans now have lots of stuff to add to their archive.

Plus, btw, what do you think of the argument floating around that the Chained CPI is a good thing because trading it buys us some great things? Going with that argument is that the Chained CPI is reasonable, and not having grievous flaws and that we should get behind it?

I get where you're coming from, I think, and I know there's a cost to dissension. But, with respect, all the heated rhetoric might have you missing the arguments from the other side.

P.S. Congratulations on official membership.

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Criticize the President? We should not even be having serious conversations about this. [View all] woo me with science Apr 2013 OP

K&R You nailed it. forestpath Apr 2013 #1

My sentiments exactly. Thank you. djean111 Apr 2013 #2

K&R Uncritical fangurl "My President" worship is reminiscent of teen idol worship and just as MotherPetrie Apr 2013 #3

yep..the countless posts saying how much they love and adore obama xiamiam Apr 2013 #52

Didn't we Democrats always consider this 'creepy'? Well we did when Bush supporters would take no sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #4

Some even want to start a picture thread, borrowed from the other site not to be named? A Simple Game Apr 2013 #54

"remind me of Republicans" tblue Apr 2013 #64

I have been barred from the BOG. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #215

I support President Obama. Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #5

I support the president also. When he works for the people he will get my complete support. I do not sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #13

The sky is not falling with a ccpi adjustment Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #20

As long as you've got yours, right? Melinda Apr 2013 #26

What do I have? Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #34

"the sky is not falling..." Approximately 9% of seniors receiving Social Security live in poverty Melinda Apr 2013 #53

That's why this bill will have protections in place Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #59

What part of setting a precedent sulphurdunn Apr 2013 #86

Talk to Jimmy Carter Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #97

Yes, if Carter sulphurdunn Apr 2013 #190

Wouldn't it be easier just to not make cuts to SS that would push one third more into poverty? Dragonfli Apr 2013 #95

Indeed. woo me with science Apr 2013 #149

+1 AnnaLee Apr 2013 #188

Exactly Liberal_Dog Apr 2013 #266

+1 cui bono Apr 2013 #163

Please explain to me why CCPI is necessary in the first place? cui bono Apr 2013 #162

Didn't see your post before asking the poster the same question magellan Apr 2013 #167

CPI overstates inflation driving up the deficit unnecessarily. Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #174

Please answer the questions. n/t cui bono Apr 2013 #177

Like cost plus contracts sulphurdunn Apr 2013 #187

Raising the poorest of the elderly doesn't require a chained CPI. Veilex Apr 2013 #207

Maybe you should try explaining magellan Apr 2013 #164

Yes, why is it brought up in these discussions when it has nothing to do with the deficit? n/t cui bono Apr 2013 #169

SS still needs to be fixed Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #178

You didn't answer my question magellan Apr 2013 #179

CPI overstates inflation and, as a result, drives up the deficit unnecessarily. Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #181

Moment of Truth Project is part of FIX THE DEBT magellan Apr 2013 #186

So what your saying is those on SS shouldn't be receiving a fixed income based on CPI-W? Veilex Apr 2013 #208

Something will need to be done. Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #211

What I see through your links is that politicians are having to pay back money they have appropriated Veilex Apr 2013 #218

Funny Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #221

And that has what to do with the price of tea in China? Veilex Apr 2013 #223

That they won't fix it Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #224

Your absolutely right! They Do need to fix it! And the way to do that is with Veilex Apr 2013 #225

The sky wouldn't fall Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #226

Your statement is at odds with itself... Veilex Apr 2013 #227

How exactly? sulphurdunn Apr 2013 #185

Assuming, of course, that the expemptions won't be bargained away dflprincess Apr 2013 #196

Dear Melinda, tblue Apr 2013 #77

Your very informative posts will fall on deaf ears for those who are only interested SammyWinstonJack Apr 2013 #84

+10000 I will not be in a cult of personality either. Katashi_itto Apr 2013 #107

I've been through this with you before Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #90

You keep repeating yourself, repetition does not make false=true Progressive dog Apr 2013 #99

I get it now too, I need to stop arguing with a sales brochure Dragonfli Apr 2013 #102

The unfortunate thing is that repetition WORKS. bvar22 Apr 2013 #131

Yup. That's what Bush said. cui bono Apr 2013 #165

Ironically, the way to fight propaganda is quite similar... Veilex Apr 2013 #212

+10000 woo me with science Apr 2013 #214

Link please? Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #104

If I have to give a link to show less (not equal) more then you have a problem that a link Progressive dog Apr 2013 #105

I take that as having no proof to my question Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #109

No, I just don't think I should have to teach basic math concepts. nt Progressive dog Apr 2013 #119

You made the proclomation that it does, show that proof. n/t cui bono Apr 2013 #166

Links sulphurdunn Apr 2013 #191

I don't see the sky falling Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #192

ASk and ye shall receive Veilex Apr 2013 #222

"CCPI will lift these seniors to above the poverty line" Dragonfli Apr 2013 #100

Thanks, I came to the conclusion that some people do not understand what is going on here or do not sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #116

I am beginning to suspect most of them "don't want to" as it isn't hard to understand Dragonfli Apr 2013 #127

Ummm, no, you haven't. This thread has my 1st posts on chained CPI to SS. Melinda Apr 2013 #201

CCPI will not "lift these seniors to above the poverty line", it will plunge them below it. Veilex Apr 2013 #210

It will with protection in place Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #213

Those protections you keep mentioning are a myth waiting to happen, to placate progressives. Veilex Apr 2013 #219

The FICA cap Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #242

Not quite correct... the FICA cap raise is not popular with Republican Politicians... Veilex Apr 2013 #262

Excellent, excellent post. woo me with science Apr 2013 #148

Most DUers don't even care what President Obama's proposal really is. bornskeptic Apr 2013 #143

Obama only seemed surprised at the fastness the left came on Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #146

Apparently VA_Jill Apr 2013 #40

It's not a big deal Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #45

It IS a big deal VA_Jill Apr 2013 #48

I call myself a lifelong Dem very easily thank you Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #51

CCPI wont fix the issue Veilex Apr 2013 #220

We're all happy it's not falling for you, it's not falling for me either. But I'm a democrat sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #60

Keep spinning shit Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #65

What protections did SS beneficiaries need from the Fed Govt? Not a single one!! sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #72

So now you would allow seniors to live in poverty? Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #83

Your spin isn't working, really. sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #89

You sound like a Republican Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #91

So you don't want to raise SS benefits? sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #93

Coming from the same funds? Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #96

The claim is that by cutting SS benefits through the CCPI, it will help bring down the deficit. sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #98

The savings from CCPI could help bring down the deficit. Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #101

How could these cuts bring down the deficit? Reread Sabrina's post please. Dragonfli Apr 2013 #108

Since SS had nothing to do with the Deficit, no one should be cutting benefits to pay off sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #110

I go on this Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #114

Why is SS part of these discussions at all? The president doesn't need to do anything to 'protect sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #120

What hilariously obvious spin. Raise the damn CAP bread_and_roses Apr 2013 #240

And I forgot to mention, SS HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEFICIT!! sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #82

Factcheck Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #197

Could the deficit condition have been temporary? creeksneakers2 Apr 2013 #200

Bullshit is bullshit no matter who's spouting it. hedda_foil Apr 2013 #268

Neither are you, fooling anyone. SammyWinstonJack Apr 2013 #87

I'm not trying to fool anyone Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #106

Well you are. cui bono Apr 2013 #170

Pretty sad spin duffyduff Apr 2013 #47

More of the sky is falling BS Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #66

"...the sky is falling..." sibelian Apr 2013 #68

Rightly so Life Long Dem Apr 2013 #71

Wow. Defending Cheney is not even remotely endearing. n/t Laelth Apr 2013 #134

WTF?! magellan Apr 2013 #172

"he is repeating the garbage the far right think tanks like Cato Institute have peddled for years" woo me with science Apr 2013 #216

Here is the link: DhhD Apr 2013 #80

Not realizing both are plutocrat's puppets... Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #130

It's not that Clinton and Obama are authoritarian... ExPatLeftist Apr 2013 #232

the fact that you think this is a satisfactory reply to the OP.... tomp Apr 2013 #236

I find it interesting ... JoePhilly Apr 2013 #6

"AND then also claim that some group is forcing you to shut up." Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2013 #21

+1 n/t one_voice Apr 2013 #22

Can you link to some posts that attack him personally? zeemike Apr 2013 #35

A couple posts up creeksneakers2 Apr 2013 #203

And what is personal about that? zeemike Apr 2013 #204

That's not personal. woo me with science Apr 2013 #217

+100000000000 sheshe2 Apr 2013 #199

Some here only know how to follow orders Rex Apr 2013 #7

I find them fascinating. Been studying them since Bush awoke me to the danger they can pose Dragonfli Apr 2013 #37

About 12 years ago I had a bourbon fueled, four hour debate with a Brit at Barney's on just this Egalitarian Thug Apr 2013 #42

very apt quote from s. adams. nt tomp Apr 2013 #237

Who said you couldn't criticize? one_voice Apr 2013 #8

Can you point to a post here on DU that says 'he is worse than Hitler'? Thank you, I would want sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #17

Here... one_voice Apr 2013 #19

Not only was the post hidden, the poster was PPR'd cherokeeprogressive Apr 2013 #25

I thought you meant that DUers were doing this. That poster was properly banned right after sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #31

Uh, this person did it yesterday.. one_voice Apr 2013 #36

The person was banned instantly. There have been others here for that many years who didn't sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #44

I did not imply.. one_voice Apr 2013 #50

Well said. Who do these people work for or supposed... santamargarita Apr 2013 #70

I share your opinion. A lot of what is said is not criticizing him or holding his feet to any fire. Little Star Apr 2013 #92

Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #171

Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #239

Really? one_voice Apr 2013 #244

yep, I always find authoritarian mindsets repellent, and it is not confined to either right wing or quinnox Apr 2013 #9

I pledge blind allegiance to no man or party. JEB Apr 2013 #10

Highly recommended avaistheone1 Apr 2013 #11

The guy has been sucking since he sold out the public option for health care, IMHO. grahamhgreen Apr 2013 #12

I wonder where a lot of these folks would have been ... kentuck Apr 2013 #14

Kick and Rec! Fuddnik Apr 2013 #15

Excellent post. jsr Apr 2013 #16

Well said! n/t ljm2002 Apr 2013 #18

IMO, the problem is this mischaracterization of those supporting Obama elias7 Apr 2013 #23

seriously do these Doctor_J Apr 2013 #24

+1 green for victory Apr 2013 #27

Who are you, Teddy Roosevelt? :) Babel_17 Apr 2013 #28

"morally treasonable..." kentuck Apr 2013 #32

My favorite Teddy Roosevelt quote: Laelth Apr 2013 #137

Thank you for posting this. woo me with science Apr 2013 #249

My plesaure. n/t Laelth Apr 2013 #250

I absolutely love this post. woo me with science Apr 2013 #245

It's like I've said,... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2013 #29

I hate you, woo theaocp Apr 2013 #30

It is being met with "scathing rebuff and ridicule." WorseBeforeBetter Apr 2013 #33

It is. You're right. woo me with science Apr 2013 #287

That it is! WorseBeforeBetter Apr 2013 #295

K&R n/t whatchamacallit Apr 2013 #38

Remember back in the Bush/Cheney years when we were shushed like naughty Cleita Apr 2013 #39

Some people like the President and the decisions he's made. JaneyVee Apr 2013 #41

no one that I know..wall street, war profiteers, drones, never ending war, gitmo, ss..etc etc. nt xiamiam Apr 2013 #55

He has an incredibly huge & loyal fan base of average Americans. JaneyVee Apr 2013 #56

So does McDonald's. Marr Apr 2013 #69

Fans? BrotherIvan Apr 2013 #229

"fans" is short for fanatics (look it up). yep, you said it. nt boilerbabe Apr 2013 #243

+a billion limpyhobbler Apr 2013 #43

One of the best rants I have read in a long time. zeemike Apr 2013 #46

Great Post Broward Apr 2013 #49

Probably so and they should be free to be subjects of their lofty lords TheKentuckian Apr 2013 #57

Amen (Said the atheist) nt broadcaster75201 Apr 2013 #58

You never to fail to woo me with your profound knowledge, understanding, logic, indepat Apr 2013 #61

On the other hand, perhaps it has always been their government ... Laelth Apr 2013 #139

At least the founders paid lip service to lofty principles? indepat Apr 2013 #145

To their credit, yes. Laelth Apr 2013 #150

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Apr 2013 #62

And in the context of Social Security cuts, too! Marr Apr 2013 #63

Policies over personality, every time. 99Forever Apr 2013 #67

I look at it this way generally The Straight Story Apr 2013 #73

THANK. YOU. Apophis Apr 2013 #74

Obama is a problem- but he is having to deal with a criminal congress DarkLink Apr 2013 #75

Interesting. Laelth Apr 2013 #140

�To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.� ― Voltaire KG Apr 2013 #76

+1 woo me with science Apr 2013 #228

The sales team "creeps" are out in force today too, it's really obvious just1voice Apr 2013 #78

Which singing bimbette said of Bush? ChairmanAgnostic Apr 2013 #122

Question... Bobbie Jo Apr 2013 #125

Quite. ChairmanAgnostic Apr 2013 #129

always derails the subject at hand..its unnatural to be a dem and support everything he's done xiamiam Apr 2013 #124

no kidding. i can't imagine being *that* enamored of a politician. boilerbabe Apr 2013 #133

^^^THIS^^^ SammyWinstonJack Apr 2013 #79

Problem is both parties move to the right when elected LiberalLovinLug Apr 2013 #81

Nice post. Your description fits both Clinton and Obama. Laelth Apr 2013 #141

The bottom line... kentuck Apr 2013 #85

great post amborin Apr 2013 #88

That's unfair to people like me. sofa king Apr 2013 #94

Wow. randome Apr 2013 #112

What? Hissyspit Apr 2013 #132

But he puts that disillusionment into what I consider to be its proper perspective. randome Apr 2013 #235

Examples please. GeorgeGist Apr 2013 #117

We know that Congress has not passed a law enshrining Chained CPI yet. Laelth Apr 2013 #152

Bad politics, I agree. sofa king Apr 2013 #279

Thank you for the honor of a thoughtful response. Laelth Apr 2013 #286

Now THIS is what needed to be said. treestar Apr 2013 #157

What????? cui bono Apr 2013 #176

*sputter* Cheerleader!! *snarl* Blind loyalist! Number23 Apr 2013 #184

I'll tell you what I feel deutsey Apr 2013 #233

+100000000 And people who feel trapped woo me with science Apr 2013 #259

Powerful post. Thank you. myrna minx Apr 2013 #288

I felt that way, too. sofa king Apr 2013 #293

I guess I'm seeing it more in terms of 30 years' worth of rigging. deutsey Apr 2013 #294

Strategy JackHughes Apr 2013 #256

Well said! MissDeeds Apr 2013 #103

The Father Knows Best wing of the party disagrees. Just trust the bosses to do..something. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2013 #111

I would agree, but this message coming out of YOUR mouth, I'm afraid, has tarnished it. n/t AverageJoe90 Apr 2013 #113

This message was self-deleted by its author carolinayellowdog Apr 2013 #234

Unless it's about gun policy krispos42 Apr 2013 #115

Oh boy ProSense Apr 2013 #118

"Whenever anyone disagrees on point, you get "a blind loyalty to and adoration of a Dear Leader." Puglover Apr 2013 #147

we have one group here that will ban anyone offering even the most minor criticism DrDan Apr 2013 #121

I've found it laughable and disgusting at the same time stupidicus Apr 2013 #123

Couldn't agree more Arcanetrance Apr 2013 #126

Hear, hear! k&r n/t Laelth Apr 2013 #128

Erich Fromm's 1957 explanation of authoritarian hero-worship still rings very true carolinayellowdog Apr 2013 #135

Exactly Liberalynn Apr 2013 #136

K&R! jannyk Apr 2013 #138

Oh, So it is OK to Criticize but not support? Lady Freedom Returns Apr 2013 #142

Your "support" is blind and unquestioning Occulus Apr 2013 #153

The criticism is blind and unquestioning too treestar Apr 2013 #155

No, it's not, woo me with science Apr 2013 #263

Thank you. Incredibly, this needs to be said. senseandsensibility Apr 2013 #144

Thanks Woo.. russspeakeasy Apr 2013 #151

Criticize all day and night if you want treestar Apr 2013 #154

Total Agreement Here h2ebits Apr 2013 #156

Bang. Got it in one. Nicely done +++ DirkGently Apr 2013 #158

Call me "wooed" Oilwellian Apr 2013 #159

The "liberals never criticize the President"? (Obama)? zbdent Apr 2013 #160

Yes but what fun it is to be ad-hom attacked by 40,000+ post loyalists! just1voice Apr 2013 #161

Unfortunately the jury system can cater to the worshippers. I suspect the jury system is being... L0oniX Apr 2013 #180

I'm new here so I've been trying to stay out of this fray but... Jasana Apr 2013 #168

Hear, hear! Laelth Apr 2013 #173

It doesn't matter if a worshipper is right on any issue because better people have a life... L0oniX Apr 2013 #175

I don't see it that way . . . MrModerate Apr 2013 #182

Well said! Very well said! Thank you. k&r In Truth We Trust Apr 2013 #183

I'm wowed, wooed. JimDandy Apr 2013 #189

THANK YOU Skittles Apr 2013 #193

K&R! n/t Skip Intro Apr 2013 #194

they don't care about people in this country fascisthunter Apr 2013 #195

Big K&R and why is SS part of deficit reduction anyway. nt slipslidingaway Apr 2013 #198

More persecution fantasies? creeksneakers2 Apr 2013 #202

Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #205

Get off my lawn hippies! BrotherIvan Apr 2013 #230

I am not a "Black man in the White House 'hatin'" uriel1972 Apr 2013 #241

There is seems to be a severe pizza shortage G_j Apr 2013 #246

Indeed. Arugula Latte Apr 2013 #292

Hey, ProSense Apr 2013 #206

Everytime PO makes a very "un-Democratic-Party" compromise with the Repugs... ReRe Apr 2013 #209

Have A Discussion erpowers Apr 2013 #231

"Calls..... sendero Apr 2013 #238

It's ridiculous to claim that we should not criticize policies with which we disagree Yo_Mama Apr 2013 #247

Criticize them or praise them, I have no problem with folks who do either. Autumn Apr 2013 #248

Many of those calling to suppress criticism were upset when criticism was thrown at the ACA because still_one Apr 2013 #251

Misplaced criticism of Obama JackHughes Apr 2013 #252

Wow, that was the best OP Odd Won Out Apr 2013 #253

Du rec. Nt xchrom Apr 2013 #254

I registered to DU and stopped lurking over this issue... TekGryphon Apr 2013 #255

it was Bernie Sanders and other knowledgable G_j Apr 2013 #257

Paul Krugman did it for me TekGryphon Apr 2013 #267

Welcome to DU. Laelth Apr 2013 #260

Welcome to the posting dimension. I agree with you. randome Apr 2013 #261

The logic of outrage being a bad thing but the 4th estate reviewing it being a good thing Babel_17 Apr 2013 #264

Re: Bernie Sanders & Reagan TekGryphon Apr 2013 #265

That's just an absurd argument. woo me with science Apr 2013 #269

If you could hop off the dog pile and think for a moment.. TekGryphon Apr 2013 #270

"the extreme idiot left" woo me with science Apr 2013 #271

Your logic is what got us the Individual Mandate TekGryphon Apr 2013 #272

Wow, Absurder and Absurder, as Alice might say. woo me with science Apr 2013 #274

Boehner did say, more or less, he wanted to see the Chained CPI in the administration's proposal Babel_17 Apr 2013 #277

You're neither listening nor paying attention. TekGryphon Apr 2013 #283

LOL! woo me with science Apr 2013 #284

And I'll conclude with a link to ease your selective amnesia: TekGryphon Apr 2013 #285

Some Republicans like the symbolism of the Chained CPI Babel_17 Apr 2013 #289

You're correct. The problem is that for decades we have been in The Twilight Zone Babel_17 Apr 2013 #275

Well put The Second Stone Apr 2013 #258

If you would make a SERIOUS statement jazzimov Apr 2013 #273

I wish I was getting paid for this stuff.........wow Redlegjumpmaster Apr 2013 #278

Oh, I'm very serious, woo me with science Apr 2013 #281

Never blindly follow anyone Redlegjumpmaster Apr 2013 #276

Nailed it. truebrit71 Apr 2013 #280

I find it worrying, too. woo me with science Apr 2013 #282

Some of it borders on Orwellian... truebrit71 Apr 2013 #290

+1 And not even just bordering. woo me with science Apr 2013 #291