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Fool Count

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95. "Having independent dialog for reforms"? What the hell does it even mean?

Sun Feb 5, 2012, 02:52 AM

Feb 2012

Qaddafi offered "independent dialog for reforms". "Revolutionaries" weren't interested.
Sure, "independent dialog" is much less fun than pulling toenails off their opponents.
Syrian government has the whole roadmap for reform with multi-party elections and
all that. Salafists and their Gulf backers wouldn't here any of that, they would accept
nothing short of Assad hanging from a lamp pole. Some democracy. When Bahraini protesters
decided that "independent dialog for reform" sounded too vague and took matters into
their own hands those democratizing proxies, the Saudis, showed them democracy.
Did we here any accusatory zeal from Hillary Clinton or Susan Rice on that occasion?
Sorry, but hesitating still to call you a liar, I must go with delusional here. Either one
or the other anyhow.

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A Torrent of Disinformation : The NeoCon Propaganda Machine Pushing �Regime Change� in Syria [View all] stockholmer Feb 2012 OP

So hundreds of Syrians weren't killed yesterday by Assad's regime? joshcryer Feb 2012 #1

If there were defecting military units in America, we'd have thousands of people killed here, too. leveymg Feb 2012 #5

Stick to your guns because that is the right question! JackRiddler Feb 2012 #14

if my uncle had a vagina he'd be my aunt nt arely staircase Feb 2012 #25

A small percentage of military folks go Absent WithOut Leave every year. No one dies. stevenleser Feb 2012 #30

The US doesn't typically lay siege to cities that are protesting against the government. joshcryer Feb 2012 #55

well, the neocon checklist is almost complete... inna Feb 2012 #2

Thanks for reminding us of that. It's also similar to the "A Clean Break" (1997) neocon hit list leveymg Feb 2012 #11

Thank you for this important reminder. nt woo me with science Feb 2012 #13

Whatever the neocons are/aren't doing, the Syrian people are certainly pushing for 'regime change'. pampango Feb 2012 #3

The "Syrian people" are divided, and the regime is predominantly Shi'ia. It's a religious civil war leveymg Feb 2012 #6

I want "to take sides" with anyone who a voice in deciding who governs the country. pampango Feb 2012 #7

Syria is as unlike Tunisia as Iran is to Egypt The "Arab Spring" isn't a one-size-fits-all popular leveymg Feb 2012 #9

So it comes down to a brutal dictator or "a genocide waiting to happen". pampango Feb 2012 #10

Those who just want freedom are often the first sacrificed in struggles between ruthless parties leveymg Feb 2012 #12

Allawi, not Shia. nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #80

Alawi IS a Shia sect. leveymg Feb 2012 #100

Yeah but they are considered a break away sect nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #101

Same difference. leveymg Feb 2012 #102

Not in Syria or to Syrians. nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #103

I don't want to get into Intra-Shi'ia theological or doctrinal questions here. leveymg Feb 2012 #104

Nope this is not the place nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #105

Well who the hell is killing all the protestors there? Swede Feb 2012 #4

That small segment of the anti-war crowd frames everything as "US is bad and is behind this" stevenleser Feb 2012 #28

U.S. secretly backed Syrian opposition groups, cables released by WikiLeaks show ronnie624 Feb 2012 #98

Is the killing of protestors verifiable? n/t ronnie624 Feb 2012 #97

"unrec" for link to counterpuke MH1 Feb 2012 #8

How convenient for you, blanket dismissal of a publication with about 50 diverse authors. JackRiddler Feb 2012 #15

Your argument can be completely flipped, we also dismiss Free Republic which has dozens of diverse stevenleser Feb 2012 #31

Can be and should be are two different things. JackRiddler Feb 2012 #39

CR can be summarized quite easily. stevenleser Feb 2012 #42

1, 2 and 5 are pretty much true... JackRiddler Feb 2012 #46

I used to love it, back in 2003 hfojvt Feb 2012 #37

"counterpuke" to some, one of the best sources to others. inna Feb 2012 #16

You don't believe the U.S. has a plan for World domination? rudycantfail Feb 2012 #18

Absolutely - starting with Afghanistan bhikkhu Feb 2012 #26

...a lesson nobody seems to rudycantfail Feb 2012 #38

So is "gay girl in Damascus" thrown in there to justify the "disinformation" tag? bhikkhu Feb 2012 #17

What do you think happened in Libya? rudycantfail Feb 2012 #19

NATO and the US helped a popular revolution overthrow a brutal dictator bhikkhu Feb 2012 #24

Your last phrase is the key. To one particular segment of the anti-war crowd it is all about us and stevenleser Feb 2012 #32

Libya was rudycantfail Feb 2012 #35

it's really a not so subtle bigotry arely staircase Feb 2012 #21

It is but with these folks it is unintentional. They have tunnel vision aimed at blaming the US for stevenleser Feb 2012 #34

i know it isn't intentional arely staircase Feb 2012 #36

If you're looking to bomb it, you own a piece of the war. JackRiddler Feb 2012 #40

We hate America first rudycantfail Feb 2012 #41

If you are part of the crowd I am talking about? Yes. nt stevenleser Feb 2012 #43

SUPPORT THE TROOPS rudycantfail Feb 2012 #45

your the one who seems to be supporting some troops nt arely staircase Feb 2012 #49

Fight em over there so we don't have to fight em over here, right? rudycantfail Feb 2012 #48

You can prattle off all the straw men you want.It still wont make my argument what you want it to be stevenleser Feb 2012 #54

There's nothing wrong with rudycantfail Feb 2012 #56

There is nothing wrong with my ignore list either! Enjoy it! nt stevenleser Feb 2012 #58

Okay, but before you do rudycantfail Feb 2012 #59

No, the bigotry is in thinking that those 'poor people' can't have a Revolution without Western sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #61

if by interference you mean helping people remove the man who is murdering them in the streets arely staircase Feb 2012 #63

Well, if you held that position for all the decades the US supported the Assad regime, sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #65

sure, quaddafi's death was horrific. it was certainly recoil-worthy arely staircase Feb 2012 #66

"Bahrain is a bloodbath" = patently dishonest. 60 deaths = 0.004% Bahrain population. joshcryer Feb 2012 #69

Ok I need to ask, when did the Hafez Al Assad regime become nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #81

The "gay girl in Damascus" hoax ronnie624 Feb 2012 #99

the syrians seem to be pushing it too arely staircase Feb 2012 #20

"The syrians seem to be pushing it too" rudycantfail Feb 2012 #44

enough that the government is mowing them down in the streets yet they keep showing up arely staircase Feb 2012 #47

Do you think our government rudycantfail Feb 2012 #50

whichever is more effective. nt arely staircase Feb 2012 #51

When you say "our government helping them do it" rudycantfail Feb 2012 #52

is that the most effective way to help the syrians rid themselves of th butcher assad? arely staircase Feb 2012 #53

I appreciate your honesty. n/t rudycantfail Feb 2012 #57

This really is nonsense. Unfortunately, some of the anti-war folks are obsessed with making stevenleser Feb 2012 #22

Right BeFree Feb 2012 #27

That you resort to creating straw men tells everyone all they need to know. stevenleser Feb 2012 #29

LOL, tell me about it! Who is supposed to fall for that, BTW? Poll_Blind Feb 2012 #33

"That everything is the US' fault and is somehow about us." That is not a "philosophy", Fool Count Feb 2012 #60

Hahahaha! Hilarious. Next time though, use the sarcasm tag. nt stevenleser Feb 2012 #64

US doesn't support democracy in Latin America = bad. Supports it in Middle East = bad. joshcryer Feb 2012 #70

If US supported democracy in Middle East, they would be starting with their "friends" - Fool Count Feb 2012 #91

Qatar: Elections in 2013. Jordan: Prime Minister resigned Feb 1st, move to implement democracy. joshcryer Feb 2012 #92

"Having independent dialog for reforms"? What the hell does it even mean? Fool Count Feb 2012 #95

Heh, the insults continue. joshcryer Feb 2012 #96

Why do Americans think that other nations are not capable of solving their own problems? sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #62

No one thinks that. The US doesn't get involved in most disputes. stevenleser Feb 2012 #67

Well, in a way you make the point made by many observers. The US, while claiming to care sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #72

Funny how a lot of the incoherence becomes explicable... woo me with science Feb 2012 #78

The US also supported Ben Ali, Mubarak, Gaddafi. Maybe the key element is internal uprising, huh? joshcryer Feb 2012 #71

Maybe let the Bahrainis speak for themselves: sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #74

They already are speaking for themselves as the independent dialogue shows. joshcryer Feb 2012 #76

Dead Bahrainis are as dead as dead people anywhere else. What is remarkable is how selective sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #79

All people living under autocrats deserve to be free. joshcryer Feb 2012 #83

So go complain about the ones the US is *supporting*. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2012 #85

I have. See my sig. This OP is about Syria. This OP is showing the bias. joshcryer Feb 2012 #86

Well, there's not much chance of those living under our very good friend, Karamov eg, of ever being sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #87

"ever" is a long time, Karamov will die, they will show self-determination. joshcryer Feb 2012 #88

You are mistaken if you think there is no support for the Syrians. You conflate interference and sabrina 1 Feb 2012 #93

I think there is ample support for the Syrians from those who don't invoke... joshcryer Feb 2012 #94

There is no doubt in my mind western spec ops are nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #82

btw i hope the us government is helping topple ASSad arely staircase Feb 2012 #23

The West is Bad, The West is Evil, Blah, Blah, Blah... Odin2005 Feb 2012 #68

"...a deliberate and calculated campaign to bring down the Assad government..." unkachuck Feb 2012 #73

Is it considered liberal or conservative to support hundreds of thousands of demonstrators pampango Feb 2012 #75

Never understood jeanpalmer Feb 2012 #77

You should be ashamed of yourself. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2012 #84

There are different ways of looking at Western "help." jeanpalmer Feb 2012 #89

I'm afraid I think this post contains at least two really silly statements. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2012 #90