General Discussion

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)

52. Much truth in your views. Prohibition ALWAYS takes on a hateful approach...

Reply to friendly_iconoclast (Original post)

Wed Apr 17, 2013, 11:28 PM

Apr 2013

once a sense of righteousness has "cleansed" the consciousness of banners; then you can say ANYTHING about Others. Even if the Others number tens of millions.

A constructive suggestion: Develop proposals which ARE supported by all. Overhaul of the NICS test, expansion of coverage, maybe open NICS to all. Drop the antique language of Prohibition, and drop registration as a demand.

I understand at least 2 pro-2A organizations supported the NICS compromise; the NRA has never enjoyed hegemony regarding guns, and they have less now. But they will dig in if faced by the trash-talking cock-strut readily seen in DU threads. Frankly, I think many DUers don't want to go up against the controllers who scream the loudest, lest they be smeared with the scarlet "N" letter: "NRA."

Maybe it's time DUers take some of these macho-types on and set a new tone in this debate.

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It's very simple: If you want new gun control laws, you need the cooperation of legal gun owners. [View all] friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 OP

You don't sound so friendly to me n/t Fumesucker Apr 2013 #1

The point, however, is valid. Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #7

Fuck the gun humpers. morningfog Apr 2013 #8

And *still* you don't get it... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #12

Fuck the gun nuts. morningfog Apr 2013 #13

The OP refers to gun owners. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #127

They never will friendly_iconoclast. Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #20

Sort of like you do when anyone dare to talk about white privilege? HangOnKids Apr 2013 #130

With that attitude... Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #111

Wrong. We need to go on the offensive against the obstructionist. morningfog Apr 2013 #135

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:Gun strokers?? Really? This kind of post is what is dividing DU and our country. Kolesar Apr 2013 #147

Nice! Perfect score. morningfog Apr 2013 #158

And yet another ad-hominem playground level taunt. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #153

Yep. I've lost any and all respect for those who morningfog Apr 2013 #160

You're right in that you *are* wasting your time Kolesar Apr 2013 #165

Yes, the jury system is a broken joke. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #168

tears? ... eom Kolesar Apr 2013 #169

Plenty of those flowing, it seems. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #170

Good luck with that NickB79 Apr 2013 #171

Thanks for your support. morningfog Apr 2013 #182

"You have to blow us just right, or else we might let another crazy guy Arkana Apr 2013 #188

Nice strawman. Does it keep the crows away from your garden? Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #190

Oh, very nice. You've been following me around, I see. Arkana Apr 2013 #191

So you respond out of the blue to my post, and I'm following YOU around? Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #192

Read the OP--how, exactly, am I "making shit up"? Arkana Apr 2013 #193

You attributed to others something neither said nor implied, that's how. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #194

Surely there is some middle ground sylvi Apr 2013 #292

+1000 billh58 Apr 2013 #129

"The tide is turning". True- just not in the direction you believe it is. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #167

Continue to cling billh58 Apr 2013 #175

So what are your plans for 2015? How's that effort to win hearts and minds amongst... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #178

Like the NRA, you are billh58 Apr 2013 #181

Your revisionism is as obvious as it is ahistorical. All gun owners were attacked here on DU... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #197

Those remarks are not billh58 Apr 2013 #211

Then get serious about splitting the reasonable gun owners from the NRA, FFS. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #245

We attempted to start billh58 Apr 2013 #248

If you give on registration, you'll *get* universal background checks. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #251

Nope. billh58 Apr 2013 #253

I suppose you don't hold with the aphorism: The perfect is the enemy of the good... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #254

Not looking for perfect. billh58 Apr 2013 #255

Then start by getting what you *can* get, and work up from that. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #256

Pretense of moral and intellectual superiority? EOTE Apr 2013 #183

Good luck persuading 20-25% of the electorate with THAT attitude. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #199

Again, it's not how I think, it's what I know. EOTE Apr 2013 #206

I prefer the term "ghoul".. Fumesucker Apr 2013 #25

Zenger. Chan790 Apr 2013 #27

Capital sermon, Reverend Sunday: friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #76

It doesn't really bother gun owners to be called names as much as you think. ... spin Apr 2013 #80

You are contradicting yourself marions ghost Apr 2013 #116

People aren't denouncing gun owners BainsBane Apr 2013 #81

I'm not demanding you shut up, I'm asking you to reconsider your failed approach. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #86

Hello . . . ? BainsBane Apr 2013 #88

Yes, cultural warfare. You need to reread the posts of some the more "vigorous" advocates... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #91

So fucking what? BainsBane Apr 2013 #93

You might have gotten somewhere if you'd not treated this as a Crusade. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #95

A crusade? BainsBane Apr 2013 #105

It's not the different opinions that turn pro-rights advocates off Nuclear Unicorn Apr 2013 #185

If it was off the table... WinniSkipper Apr 2013 #117

Many gun owners support traceability and registration. cbrer Apr 2013 #2

I know a lot of gun owners and I don't know a single one that ... spin Apr 2013 #99

Well that figures, billh58 Apr 2013 #298

Gun violence in Florida is at an all time low. ... spin Apr 2013 #300

Yep, there's that billh58 Apr 2013 #301

While more guns may not equal less crime ... spin Apr 2013 #302

What would registration accomplish? GreenStormCloud Apr 2013 #136

actually wouldn't that work for straw purchases? booley Apr 2013 #176

Guns can already be traced to the original purchaser. GreenStormCloud Apr 2013 #234

Registration can help solve crimes cbrer Apr 2013 #180

How can registration leave such a trail? GreenStormCloud Apr 2013 #233

Because it isn't a black and white issue cbrer Apr 2013 #235

Oh gees.... defacto7 Apr 2013 #3

I don't own a gun. I'm just sick of watching Third Way/DLC types charging headlong into defeat... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #9

If I misunderstand your OP defacto7 Apr 2013 #19

It's no threat; we just saw the "all or nothing" approach produce, well....nothing friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #73

This message was self-deleted by its author defacto7 Apr 2013 #51

we hurt their widdle feelings Skittles Apr 2013 #83

^^^This^^^ GCP Apr 2013 #85

You're so cute when you're angry... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #94

Agreed, and it's a bit of a surprise. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #112

I AM ALWAYS CUTE Skittles Apr 2013 #201

Aww, someone has a sad... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #243

You hurt whos feelings? darkangel218 Apr 2013 #128

OHHHH Skittles Is SO Mean HangOnKids Apr 2013 #131

How are you going to get any gun control law to pass with that attitude? nt darkangel218 Apr 2013 #133

My disagreeing that Skittles is mean is an impediment to gun control? HangOnKids Apr 2013 #137

Thats not the message of my post. you try again darkangel218 Apr 2013 #138

"We" all want the same thing? HangOnKids Apr 2013 #141

United States of America. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #142

Did you pay attention to the vote yesterday? HangOnKids Apr 2013 #151

Well they dont represent me, or anyone i know. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #156

Get off the "hate and name calling" meme HangOnKids Apr 2013 #177

Ba bye. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #186

The problem was the bill that failed today was written by gun owners so that doesn't fly Arcanetrance Apr 2013 #4

Fuck em. We'll win eventually. Their attitude is selfish and blocks progress. morningfog Apr 2013 #5

"we" and "they" is what blocks progress. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #139

The extremist gun nuts who block everything are morningfog Apr 2013 #143

Okay, but dont include all gun owners under that umbrella darkangel218 Apr 2013 #146

80% of NRA members isn't enough? hepkat Apr 2013 #6

Gun nut assholes want to convince you that making no laws is the best way alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #10

The universal background checks I and lots of others want got defeated too. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #17

And you're not going to change attitudes WinniSkipper Apr 2013 #35

Because only about 4% of that 90% actually care enough to base their vote on it? Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #15

I know that. That's my point. hepkat Apr 2013 #22

You're using Limbaugh's twisted version of a poll. Noted. Telling. DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2013 #56

I'm using a Gallup poll. Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #58

And Gallup deliberately skews Right, because the Right pays for the desired results. Ikonoklast Apr 2013 #121

Just as a Frank Luntz poll skews Left lately- because that's who is currently employing him. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #200

B.S. elleng Apr 2013 #11

+1 Euphoria Apr 2013 #14

Apparently the people don't. Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #32

Contacting members is not part of the fabric of the U.S., unfortunately, elleng Apr 2013 #42

In other words, most people don't really care about passing new gun laws. Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #59

No, they care, they don't know how it works, elleng Apr 2013 #60

This message was self-deleted by its author Orsino Apr 2013 #119

Or, do what these guys advise Lady Freedom Returns Apr 2013 #16

People generally get the Congress they want... badtoworse Apr 2013 #34

We can still fight for it! Lady Freedom Returns Apr 2013 #44

That is happening on both sides of this issue badtoworse Apr 2013 #50

I do not believe that Jenoch Apr 2013 #39

This just goes to show what contacting your officials can do. Lady Freedom Returns Apr 2013 #48

He Had a Pet Congress Macoy51 Apr 2013 #102

Bingo! zipplewrath Apr 2013 #115

Don't fall for misinformation. Although IDK if you want to hear differently: freshwest Apr 2013 #226

And you'll get that by giving away Red State Dem seats to the GOP? NickB79 Apr 2013 #173

I wish they would have started with that attitude kudzu22 Apr 2013 #18

Nonsense hepkat Apr 2013 #26

So why weren't expanded background checks passed back then? Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #38

I think by the time Toomey-Manchin came up kudzu22 Apr 2013 #126

Starting with a sweeping ban, and ending with a patched-up B.G. check doomed both. Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #215

LOL. "Dear NRA, what can we do that you'll support?" DanTex Apr 2013 #114

It's called a dialog kudzu22 Apr 2013 #125

NRA's response: You could offer MORE GUNS! We suppor that! MillennialDem Apr 2013 #159

Too late for that Supersedeas Apr 2013 #122

What about the language Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #21

What about the language ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #36

Why do you say Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #37

Speaking only for myself, Jenoch Apr 2013 #41

And what makes you think his Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #47

Actually it does not work out as claimed ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #72

Because as a practical matter they make almost no difference ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #49

Do you think those videos Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #229

Having taught firearms and also used them in combat, they are realistic for what they depict, that ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #231

Changing a magazine is easy and fast. GreenStormCloud Apr 2013 #236

I understand what you're saying Shankapotomus Apr 2013 #238

If you want the banks to change their structure to be safer and more supportive BlueStreak Apr 2013 #23

Bank CEOs make up what percentage of the electorate, again? friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #46

Wayne LaPierre makes up what percentage of the electorate, again? BlueStreak Apr 2013 #54

When the membership of the largest gun-control advocacy .org outnumbers the NRA by 80:1... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #77

The real NRA membersip is about 10 BlueStreak Apr 2013 #107

The +/- 4 million people on their membership rolls might disagree with you. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #154

Something like 30, I think, if by "Wayne LaPierre" you mean "gun owners". N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #78

And virtually all of those 80 million are going to get to keep their guns. nomorenomore08 Apr 2013 #24

That is something to celebrate badtoworse Apr 2013 #40

If. AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #28

We already put that meme to bed tonight. It was the need to get 60 votes not lack of gun owner upaloopa Apr 2013 #29

What delicate little flowers the gun nuts are mwrguy Apr 2013 #30

we have *that*. what we *need* is.. Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #31

Because yes, if we didn't browbeat gun owners this would have passed tonight - oh wait, no it wouldn MillennialDem Apr 2013 #33

The other issue is that some states/regions have a strong gun culture tabbycat31 Apr 2013 #43

You mean the ones that are lying about background checks? neverforget Apr 2013 #45

Much truth in your views. Prohibition ALWAYS takes on a hateful approach... Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #52

I have nothing but contempt for the National Republican Armory, and have enough history here at DU.. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #75

It's very simple DonCoquixote Apr 2013 #53

+1000. nt laundry_queen Apr 2013 #55

Getting rid of slavery required a civil war and the deaths of 600,000 to 700,000 Americans. Llewlladdwr Apr 2013 #57

You're saying it wasn't worth it in the long run? Really, you're playing that card? Electric Monk Apr 2013 #66

Yes, those poor, poor slaveholders who had the "hell" of their slaves liberated from their clutches apocalypsehow Apr 2013 #69

From your cold dead hands...but only if necessary. nt jmg257 Apr 2013 #123

The civil war had to happen DonCoquixote Apr 2013 #223

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #108

Your analogy stinks sylvi Apr 2013 #285

If you do not take responsibility DonCoquixote Apr 2013 #287

That's a separate issue sylvi Apr 2013 #288

That's a separate issue DonCoquixote Apr 2013 #289

As opposed to your over simplification? sylvi Apr 2013 #290

Well, that's vile. Senators who just shot down background checks are bloody handed cowards. Hekate Apr 2013 #61

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #62

Interesting you left out the 1st Amendment BainsBane Apr 2013 #65

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #67

Interdasting, indede. PeaceNikki Apr 2013 #68

You ignore the point the gun lobby BainsBane Apr 2013 #70

Bennet & Udall Are Spineless POS otohara Apr 2013 #63

Have you been paying attention? BainsBane Apr 2013 #64

I didn't know Wayne LaPierre was allowed to post here. Apophis Apr 2013 #71

You think that because I disagree with you I'm pro-NRA? How Manichaean your world is. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #74

Why did you post this OP then? BainsBane Apr 2013 #79

You lot had the chance to get substantial improvements to gun control laws- and blew it. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #82

All or nothing? BainsBane Apr 2013 #84

Ahem. I *did* and do support those background checks, and have said so here repeatedly. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #87

That has been off the table for weeks BainsBane Apr 2013 #89

No, it was separated from the main bill- but still was voted on friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #247

Maybe gun owners can stop threatening to shoot everyone they disagree with. name not needed Apr 2013 #90

All 80 million of them? Stereotype a lot, do you? friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #92

from what I have gathered from my time here mikegray Apr 2013 #98

So, in other words, appeasement. AngryOldDem Apr 2013 #96

No, figure out what we *can* get and go for it. The "all-in" approach didn't work. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #97

A 100% gun ban and mandatory confiscation was defeated in the Senate? Fumesucker Apr 2013 #101

Not looking for an "all-in" approach. AngryOldDem Apr 2013 #213

You should consider leaving the party and starting your own XRubicon Apr 2013 #100

We tried that yesterday. n/t rucky Apr 2013 #103

+1 ellisonz Apr 2013 #296

So, in true Teabagger style... 99Forever Apr 2013 #104

You obviously *didn't* have the support of 90% of the people. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #161

"I" don't have any "support," I am a private citizen. 99Forever Apr 2013 #179

They aren't ready for this advice yet. aikoaiko Apr 2013 #106

We're not ever going to be ready for this advice. Chan790 Apr 2013 #109

If you had asked, we could have told how to get the background checks passed. aikoaiko Apr 2013 #110

They fucked up the opportunity to strike a much-needed blow to the NRA. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #134

Well said and billh58 Apr 2013 #162

Most gun owners aren't gun nuts. DanTex Apr 2013 #113

Gun owners SUPPORT EXPANDED BACKGROUND CHECKS. Skinner Apr 2013 #118

Wrong. Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #124

A classroom full of slaughtered first graders tends to get normal people angry Fumesucker Apr 2013 #144

No amount of "anger" excuses the hateful attacks by some controller/banners... Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #198

Meh, I used to be a gun owner, then I wised up and realized it was just putting my family in danger Fumesucker Apr 2013 #204

The personal attacks have little effect on me as an individual... Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #214

The religionistas and the atheistas have their own protected groups Fumesucker Apr 2013 #217

I note your psychological hat & cane trick... Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #221

I think you have me confused with another poster Fumesucker Apr 2013 #224

Why don't you worry about the attacks on the Sandyhook families BainsBane Apr 2013 #230

Talk to someone else. nt Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #232

Umm, no you are wrong. DanTex Apr 2013 #148

"If not for..." Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #202

It's not speculation. It's math. DanTex Apr 2013 #205

And they're off.....! Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #210

You could make the same argument about the Koch Brothers. Just meet up and talk with them... DanTex Apr 2013 #216

And I vote for progressive "gun banners." Again... Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #218

+1 darkangel218 Apr 2013 #145

We already have the cooperation of gun owners. Orsino Apr 2013 #120

You need to work harder at splitting gun owners away from the NRA. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #149

The gun owners are a fig leaf... Orsino Apr 2013 #166

Name callers never accomplish anything in real life. former9thward Apr 2013 #132

Which part of billh58 Apr 2013 #140

The large majority of legal gun owners support the proposed law. It is the Senate filibuster pnwmom Apr 2013 #150

Then why have they not made their support clear? If even 10% did so, they would outnumber... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #163

Actually, if you have been reading the real news, most gun owners are in favor Cleita Apr 2013 #152

And if the Pro-Choice movement wants to prevent the repeal of legal abortion, it will need the assis LanternWaste Apr 2013 #155

Lobbyist stklurker Apr 2013 #157

Bullshit. What happened was the result of right-wing lies and propaganda Hugabear Apr 2013 #164

So are gun owners morons, or delicate little flowers? jeff47 Apr 2013 #172

This message was self-deleted by its author friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #174

Rely on the fact that rational gun owners know they're not the ones we're speaking to? Arkana Apr 2013 #189

The NRA *is* larded with morons and their leadership is a third-rate clown college. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #195

No, I already asked a question. You decided to ignore it. jeff47 Apr 2013 #212

A loaded question that doesn't matter- they're a huge chunk of the electorate. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #241

Polls say that 90% of Americans are FOR more background checks... ljm2002 Apr 2013 #184

No. You know what? No. Arkana Apr 2013 #187

Good, good. Let the hate flow through you... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #249

When? beevul Apr 2013 #257

LOL! What happened? Robb Apr 2013 #196

Youre not helping. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #203

Sarcasm? I'm *delighted* when a gun troll gets banned from DU. Robb Apr 2013 #207

I have no clue to what banned members you're referring to. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #208

What is this "we" of "what we are trying to accomplish here"? Robb Apr 2013 #209

Obviously im refering to us, American people. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #225

Yeah, Gabby Giffords doesn't own guns...oh wait, she does...your OP is shit... joeybee12 Apr 2013 #219

"most of them are just as law abiding as you are" jmg257 Apr 2013 #220

Most of us don't mind some inconvenience... Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #228

Almost nobody is responding to the point in the OP brooklynite Apr 2013 #240

And that is exactly billh58 Apr 2013 #246

You are threatening us with what we "have learned today". Clarify: are you against effective patrice Apr 2013 #222

What a completely asshole post. Zoeisright Apr 2013 #227

Do you think implacable hatred towards >20% of the voting-age US population is a good idea? friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #242

You are perpetuating billh58 Apr 2013 #252

Yeah, about that: "Note: ALL gun owners support the NRA" -and that's just from today at DU friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #258

One post from one billh58 Apr 2013 #259

Would you have us believe that gun control supporters on DU, such as the example he gave... beevul Apr 2013 #260

I remember you Sparky. billh58 Apr 2013 #261

Then you, apparently, misremember. beevul Apr 2013 #263

Typical Gungeoneer response. billh58 Apr 2013 #264

This message was self-deleted by its author friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #269

That is such convoluted billh58 Apr 2013 #275

Uh huh. beevul Apr 2013 #283

So when are you going to apply your own standards to the majority of American gun owners? friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #270

I already have billh58 Apr 2013 #272

"the American gun owners that I know" And therein lies a problem for you. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #274

Thanks for the advice, but billh58 Apr 2013 #276

Why not try it anyway, if only for the chance to get a lick in against the NRA? They ARE vulnerable. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #278

It seems you will not admit that the majority of gun owners *might* not agree with you. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #271

I do not billh58 Apr 2013 #273

I claim no such thing, otherwise I would not be proposing a counterweight to the NRA... friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #277

I agree with some of what you billh58 Apr 2013 #279

Your words, while wise, are falling on deaf ears. beevul Apr 2013 #237

And there you go billh58 Apr 2013 #265

Except...I wasn't. beevul Apr 2013 #284

BS, legal gun owners support more backgrounds checks. How did that work out krawhitham Apr 2013 #239

If polls are correct, we DO have their support n2doc Apr 2013 #244

Wrong. You need the gun lobby on your side Rex Apr 2013 #250

No, we don't. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #262

Then how does progress get made? WinniSkipper Apr 2013 #266

Your first sentence billh58 Apr 2013 #267

I don't presume to speak for gun owners. WinniSkipper Apr 2013 #280

First of all, yes billh58 Apr 2013 #281

Thanks for the well reasoned reply WinniSkipper Apr 2013 #291

I realize that registration billh58 Apr 2013 #293

I don't think LaPierre making a catastrophic WinniSkipper Apr 2013 #294

Kick!!!!! kelliekat44 Apr 2013 #268

Guess what? We don't need you Uzair Apr 2013 #282

As long as gun owners vote at the rate they do, you DO need them. friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #295

There's that fallacy billh58 Apr 2013 #297

If I believed that, would I be advocating splitting some of them away from the NRA? friendly_iconoclast Apr 2013 #303

A valiant effort sylvi Apr 2013 #286

Okay, well, we're waiting. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2013 #299