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Tommy_Carcetti

(44,521 posts)
64. Yeah....
Fri Apr 19, 2013, 01:39 PM
Apr 2013
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jared_Lee_Loughner

"Tong Shan, a former friend and classmate of Loughner's, recalled observing significant changes in his attitude and demeanor a year prior to the shooting. Shan, who became friends with Loughner on the day of their high school graduation, said that they would often spend time together after class but lost touch after the semester ended. When they met again in mid-2010, Shan recalled that Loughner appeared, "Radically different. [...] From the way he was talking to me [online]... you can see. It was just questions and questions and random, weird questions that didn't go together," she said. "He wanted to know everything...he would just trip out." Recounting her early experiences with Loughner in light of the shooting, Shan said Loughner was "a good person that just somehow changed so much. I don't know what the hell happened to him.....In the months leading up to the shooting Laughner's parents became increasingly alarmed at their son's behavior at one point resorting to disabling his car every night in order to keep him home. At one point his father confiscated his son's shotgun and both urged him to get help......In the aftermath of the shooting, the Anti-Defamation League reviewed messages by Loughner, and concluded that there was a "disjointed theme that runs through Loughner's writings", which was a "distrust for and dislike of the government." It "manifested itself in various ways" – for instance, in the belief that the government used the control of language and grammar to brainwash people, the notion that the government was creating "infinite currency" without the backing of gold and silver, or the assertion that NASA was faking spaceflights.[45]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sueng_Hui_Cho

"On December 13, 2005, Cho was found "mentally ill and in need of hospitalization" by New River Valley Community Services Board.[65] The physician who examined Cho noted that he had a flat affect and depressed mood, even though Cho "denied suicidal thoughts and did not acknowledge symptoms of a thought disorder."[65] Based on this mental health examination and because Cho was suspected of being "an imminent danger to himself or others", he was detained temporarily at Carilion St. Albans Behavioral Health Center in Radford, Virginia, pending a commitment hearing before the Montgomery County, Virginia district court.[65]

Virginia Special Justice Paul Barnett certified in an order that Cho "presented an imminent danger to himself as a result of mental illness," but instead recommended treatment for Cho as an outpatient. On December 14, 2005, Cho was released from the mental health facility after Judge Barnett ordered Cho to undergo mental health treatment on an outpatient basis,[66] with a directive for the "court-ordered [outpatient] to follow all recommended treatments." Since Cho underwent only a minimal psychiatric assessment,[65] the true diagnosis for Cho's mental health status remains unknown.

“ Virginia state law on mental health disqualifications to firearms purchases, however, is worded slightly differently from the federal statute. So the form that Virginia courts use to notify state police about a mental health disqualification addresses only the state criteria, which list two potential categories that would warrant notification to the state police: someone who was "involuntarily committed" or ruled mentally "incapacitated".[67] ”

Because Cho was not involuntarily committed to a mental health facility as an inpatient, he was still legally eligible to buy guns under Virginia law.[67] However, according to Virginia law, "A magistrate has the authority to issue a detention order upon a finding that a person is mentally ill and in need of hospitalization or treatment." The magistrate also must find that the person is an imminent danger to himself or others.[66][68] Virginia officials and other law experts have argued that, under United States federal law, Barnett's order meant that Cho had been "adjudicated as a mental defective" and was thus ineligible to purchase firearms under federal law; and that the state of Virginia erred in not enforcing the requirements of the federal law.[67]"

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

There may be Hell to pay, re: Senate Vote Of Shame. nt onehandle Apr 2013 #1
If the Tighty Righties can tell Newtown Parent to "Go to Hell" DonRedwood Apr 2013 #4
They were MA residents Recursion Apr 2013 #2
yup... and Americans can travel freely to other states with no rules and buy guns DonRedwood Apr 2013 #7
And doing so breaks the law Recursion Apr 2013 #14
Um.... do you think they care if HOW they got their guns break the law? DonRedwood Apr 2013 #19
Umm... That's the NRA's point, right? Recursion Apr 2013 #22
+1 n/t ChazII Apr 2013 #39
Purportedly at least one was a US citizen ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #3
Yep marions ghost Apr 2013 #5
MA guns laws are very strict Marrah_G Apr 2013 #6
So they might have drove a few hours, picked up a trunkfull of guns and ammo DonRedwood Apr 2013 #10
If they did that they were breaking the law Recursion Apr 2013 #35
And of course the NRA wants to ensure that breaking the law is as easy as possible. Crunchy Frog Apr 2013 #55
So how do you propose making breaking the law more difficult Recursion Apr 2013 #56
Universal background checks for starters? Crunchy Frog Apr 2013 #57
Probably. earthside Apr 2013 #8
Or the gun lovers will dismiss everything before the facts are even known DonRedwood Apr 2013 #13
I like the irony ag_dude Apr 2013 #23
I haven't seen any indication that either of them would not have been entitled to buy them legally. slackmaster Apr 2013 #9
AND THAT'S THE PROBLEM!! nt kelliekat44 Apr 2013 #17
So, what's your solution? slackmaster Apr 2013 #20
Ban semi-auto high capacity mass murder weapons jpak Apr 2013 #28
What does that mean? Recursion Apr 2013 #40
Don't be coy - what was used in Aurora, Tuscon, Newtown, DC? jpak Apr 2013 #43
I'm not being coy. You have things backwards Recursion Apr 2013 #44
ban the fucking high capacity magazines jpak Apr 2013 #48
I agree! So does most of the gungeon. Recursion Apr 2013 #50
Certainly ban introducing more of them into society. Loudly Apr 2013 #41
There should be strict controls on metalworking machines as well FrodosPet Apr 2013 #54
If only it were necessary for gun worshippers to go to the trouble of making their own. Loudly Apr 2013 #58
I don't think that recognizing a problem exists directly implies knowledge of a solution. LanternWaste Apr 2013 #66
Like Cho, Holmes and Loughner. nt Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2013 #18
Exactly. The real problem is the people. People with severe mental illnesses or twisted ideologies. slackmaster Apr 2013 #21
But they weren't convicted felons. nt Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2013 #24
Nor had they been adjudicated as mentally incompetent, or discharged dishonorably from the military, slackmaster Apr 2013 #25
So it was okay for them to legally buy guns. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2013 #27
Allowing them to buy guns legally is an unfortunate consequence of allowing you and me to do so. slackmaster Apr 2013 #31
Right. Want an omlet, gotta crack a few eggs. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2013 #34
If my city was locked down because a crazed, armed terrorist was on the loose, I sure wouldn't... slackmaster Apr 2013 #36
And "good people" who buy guns and then turn out to be not so good? Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2013 #38
People occasionally turn bad and misuse all kinds of things slackmaster Apr 2013 #47
You see, I'm more about proactivity. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2013 #51
You haven't offered any kind of solution that would have helped in the present situation. slackmaster Apr 2013 #52
Psych evaluations before being able to purchase a weapon and at intervals thereafter. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2013 #53
On what grounds would you have denied Cho or Laughner? Recursion Apr 2013 #59
That they were mentally unstable? Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2013 #60
According to whom? Recursion Apr 2013 #61
I don't know. I'm confident a psych could, though. Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2013 #62
Before their attacks? No, I don't Recursion Apr 2013 #63
Yeah.... Tommy_Carcetti Apr 2013 #64
If they didn't have a record, the background check most likely would not have helped in this case, still_one Apr 2013 #11
I agree sandmann Apr 2013 #68
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #12
... cyberswede Apr 2013 #15
Does the NRA pay you? DonRedwood Apr 2013 #16
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #32
They bought smokeless gunpowder to make those bombs jpak Apr 2013 #30
Wow mercuryblues Apr 2013 #33
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #37
well mercuryblues Apr 2013 #42
Per Massachusetts law Lurks Often Apr 2013 #26
I want to know if they followed all applicable local state and federal law Leslie Valley Apr 2013 #29
And if they bought the pressure cookers and ball bearings legally! B2G Apr 2013 #45
I may be wrong Daninmo Apr 2013 #46
Impossible for you to put your agenda on hold for a week? snooper2 Apr 2013 #49
And there are NO lists for the purchase of pressure cookers, ball bearings, etc. or for backpacks bike man Apr 2013 #65
Both were resident aliens... Travelman Apr 2013 #67
I have been wondering the same thing. Hubert Flottz Apr 2013 #69
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