General Discussion

muriel_volestrangler

(106,606 posts)

19. "True Democrats" was your phrase

Fri Dec 16, 2011, 01:40 PM

Dec 2011

I was criticising your use of it, with a reference to the "No True Scotsman" fallacy.

No, you shouldn't go to Freeperville. But your concern seems unwarranted; when I look at the most reccomended threads for the past week, I get, for the top 10:

Please Kick and Rec if you support OWS
By boston bean in General Discussion - Wednesday - 583 recs

NO!
By kpete in General Discussion - Sunday - 209 recs

Warning -- This is not a surgical device
By Donnachaidh in General Discussion - Monday - 171 recs

I'm Not Sure How To Ask This... But... Is Anybody Else Feeling A Great Nauseous Forboding About...
By WillyT in General Discussion - Wednesday - 167 recs

TIME magazine reveals its Person of the Year 2011
By dipsydoodle in Latest Breaking News - Wednesday - 161 recs

I'd Like To Apologize To DU...
By WillyT in General Discussion - Yesterday - 159 recs

I for one welcome our martial law overlords.
By Fire Walk With Me in General Discussion - Wednesday - 156 recs

President Obama Richly Deserves to Be Dumped
By Karmadillo in General Discussion - Yesterday - 150 recs

First Look: New Obama Family Portrait
By Skinner in General Discussion - Yesterday - 149 recs

The DUzies return this Friday!
By The DUzy Awards in General Discussion - Tuesday - 147 recs

There's criticism of Democratic leaders there - 4 out of the 10.

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Is this Democratic Underground? [View all] kentuck Dec 2011 OP

The whole country went right wing starting back during Reagan Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #1

I agree... kentuck Dec 2011 #3

If the Dems & OWS affect a schism liberalism will be dead for the duration of living memory n/t Nuclear Unicorn Dec 2011 #4

If OWS is ignored kenfrequed Dec 2011 #20

"If OWS is ignored" Charronxyz Dec 2011 #156

I agree, but... naturallyselected Dec 2011 #218

Then I guess the party operators... blackspade Dec 2011 #81

You think liberalism isn't already dead? MNBrewer Dec 2011 #85

Great analysis by Chris Hedges. Charronxyz Dec 2011 #167

Powerful. Yes, a must watch. gtar100 Dec 2011 #267

FYI: "...effect a schism...." xocet Dec 2011 #91

Schism? I think more like a revolution. RoccoR5955 Dec 2011 #135

What a wonderful post!! nt DocMac Dec 2011 #147

That list has a few Libertarian -ish memes in it. nt patrice Dec 2011 #159

and whats wrong with that PatrynXX Dec 2011 #160

OP promotes DIVISIVENESS amongst Democrats corelated with a list that many Dems would not patrice Dec 2011 #171

Can you list them by their numbers? The too Right Wingy things, that is. RUMMYisFROSTED Dec 2011 #214

Numbers: patrice Dec 2011 #226

These are by no means etched in stone... RoccoR5955 Dec 2011 #247

Apparently,something being "not as right wing as you might think" is acceptable only if it's not PO. patrice Dec 2011 #258

Bravo Anatos Dec 2011 #279

LOVE this! /\ nt Vanje Dec 2011 #217

"There are conservative as well as liberal minded people involved in this movement." Anatos Dec 2011 #275

I didn't think so. RoccoR5955 Dec 2011 #280

Right back at ya, Guy. Anatos Dec 2011 #281

WTF?!?! RoccoR5955 Dec 2011 #282

Oh, sorry, was that you? Anatos Dec 2011 #289

Who's David Kucinich? RoccoR5955 Dec 2011 #290

I disagree most fully. Chan790 Dec 2011 #222

"winning later is worth losing now" MNBrewer Dec 2011 #272

Maybe for you Anatos Dec 2011 #276

No long term thinking is a problem with Democrats, I guess. MNBrewer Dec 2011 #292

I'm making an exception Anatos Dec 2011 #297

I think the Dems had better pay close attention to Occupy. The problem I see now is... Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #32

It's really horrible schleping to see people and beg for money.... WCGreen Dec 2011 #79

Yes... we desperately need election reform. nt Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #80

Exactly. As long as lobbyists dictate policy b/c 1 million-dollar donor is as good as a million $1 DirkGently Dec 2011 #145

You've explained it perfectly! As long as elections require Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #295

I think Dems should pay close attention to Occupy because Reich Wingers are trying to take it over. patrice Dec 2011 #172

actually, I think they're just Paultards /nt Anatos Dec 2011 #277

Right wingers are going to take over protesting Wall Street? Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #294

May I? Anatos Dec 2011 #278

Yes, you may. :) Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #293

Not so much, sorry Anatos Dec 2011 #298

I think the Government went rightwing, the people just had no choice sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #28

You're right that it started with the govt. Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #39

I Too Live in Florida!! It's Almost Too Much To Take... ChiciB1 Dec 2011 #118

Things are not as bleak, I think. However, Americans have a tremendous capacity for Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #240

The Ron Paul campaign is all over Occupy. patrice Dec 2011 #174

Oh Stop! Vanje Dec 2011 #220

OWS, in case you haven't noticed, is not a dictator. All Occupations ARE their own thing. patrice Dec 2011 #227

Good. I'm glad he supports it. Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #241

It SURE IS... And I Carry A List Of Things That Ron Paul sFor! ChiciB1 Dec 2011 #246

Democrats were on that list, too. Clark needs to be honest. Madeline Albright is one of them! Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #71

Link to thread? Re arguments in favor of NDA provisions -- That is depressing. Leopolds Ghost Dec 2011 #204

Let me get this straight Anatos Dec 2011 #283

I don't know where to begin, but I'll try starting with this: sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #285

You should begin by learning Anatos Dec 2011 #287

You continue to argue against yourself sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #291

You are despicable Anatos Dec 2011 #296

"You are despicable" sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #299

I disagree. The country did not go right, but the media told us that it did.... Scuba Dec 2011 #201

Well, then let's say the voters went right wing, whether they did it out of stupidity... Sarah Ibarruri Dec 2011 #239

Are you eligible to run for office? tridim Dec 2011 #2

I have run for office before... kentuck Dec 2011 #5

I'm nowhere near pure enough to run for office. tridim Dec 2011 #11

A few? Loge23 Dec 2011 #107

Any one you know personally healthy enough of mind, ethics and body? LanternWaste Dec 2011 #61

Anyone ethically healthy enough (not just the appearance of being ethical) wouldn't want to run. Maine_Nurse Dec 2011 #96

I believe Elizabeth Warren to be true. DocMac Dec 2011 #149

... is this a litmus test? Or some requirement? fascisthunter Dec 2011 #114

New DU, same old memes PVnRT Dec 2011 #131

Why don't you don't want average Americans to run for office? tridim Dec 2011 #209

As with so many things Anatos Dec 2011 #288

I don't know what you are complaining about WI_DEM Dec 2011 #6

^ That seems to be what kentuck is referring to. jtrockville Dec 2011 #7

x2 AnotherMcIntosh Dec 2011 #41

Well if DU isn't critical enough for someone, it's hard to imagine the person can get enough critic treestar Dec 2011 #49

I think you missed the point treestar. jtrockville Dec 2011 #65

So don't go to freeperville treestar Dec 2011 #68

Absolutely. But it goes both ways. jtrockville Dec 2011 #69

I don't usually read the "Obama richly deserves to be dumped" type threads... redqueen Dec 2011 #89

Yes, sadly there are. In fact if you scroll up you'll see such a call right here. jtrockville Dec 2011 #97

I saw one here. redqueen Dec 2011 #101

CORRECT Skittles Dec 2011 #99

And that is exactly the problem I am having with this Democratic Underground kentuck Dec 2011 #8

'true Democrats' are like 'true Scotsmen', I suppose muriel_volestrangler Dec 2011 #9

I was asked to maybe go to Freeperland? kentuck Dec 2011 #10

"True Democrats" was your phrase muriel_volestrangler Dec 2011 #19

It's a minimal standard. kentuck Dec 2011 #21

That's because it's not really complaining about anything tangible LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #37

it's "complaining" about the rightward drift of the party as a whole paulk Dec 2011 #47

Not really. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #48

if you don't think the party has drifted to the right paulk Dec 2011 #52

I'm not talking about whether or not the party has drifted to the right. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #53

This is fascism. You are assuming that if someone does not agree with X, then they are Y, when patrice Dec 2011 #252

a.k.a. FALSE DICHOTOMY patrice Dec 2011 #253

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #170

Even the title is like LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #175

that seems rather over the top paulk Dec 2011 #261

Is it not a vicious personal attack to say that my postings are a vicious personal attacks? patrice Dec 2011 #262

Touch a nerve did I? Now, let me guess which one, hmmm . . . patrice Dec 2011 #263

looks like your post got "hidden" paulk Dec 2011 #266

How is it not a vicious personal attack for OP to imply that anyone who supports PO is blind? doesn' patrice Dec 2011 #264

Well post your litmus test. Swede Dec 2011 #12

It's simple... kentuck Dec 2011 #13

What precisely, and without post-hoc qualifiers or preconditions is a "true Democrat"? LanternWaste Dec 2011 #62

Actually, under our political system, anyone who registers as a Democrat is a "true Democrat." There totodeinhere Dec 2011 #122

The problem with your OP, Kentuck is that your premise itself is antagonizing. Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #73

What do you find "antagonizing"? kentuck Dec 2011 #74

Please do not feign ignorance with me, kentuck! You know exactly what you are doing... Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #142

Thanks. kentuck Dec 2011 #234

Trust me, there's nothing that YOU could ever do Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #243

Pot kettle. You're doing what you're complaining about #6 doing. LOTS of people think Obama is a Dem patrice Dec 2011 #176

The difference, of course, is that the FReepers hate Obama for being a socialist Jackpine Radical Dec 2011 #55

I'm not. nt hack89 Dec 2011 #84

well that was a dumb post PatrynXX Dec 2011 #161

On the contrary...... HowHeThinks Dec 2011 #196

Perhaps we can disagree in a more civil manner elias7 Dec 2011 #216

Hopefully free speech in it's purest form will mainfest some day. Lint Head Dec 2011 #14

this is hilarious bigtree Dec 2011 #15

And obviously... kentuck Dec 2011 #16

Compared to those who find nothing to support for whatever reason. patrice Dec 2011 #179

So anyone who disagrees.............. HowHeThinks Dec 2011 #197

No you don't "got it". BOTH sides are doing this AND BLAMING the other side. Q. Why? A. DIVISION. patrice Dec 2011 #228

POOR logic. Do you assume that everything anyone says applies to everyone? The fact that patrice Dec 2011 #254

Except this time they have immunity from the rest of the majority Obama-haters. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #34

So you are in favor of banning all the progressives on this board? sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #57

That's not what I said. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #60

What's telling is the Puglover Dec 2011 #76

ASSUMPTIONS! I'm a Progressive/Liberal and I support President Obama. You & I see the PROCESS patrice Dec 2011 #177

I don't support or not support him. I have come to the conclusion that the president really sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #181

We agree to a significant extent. I want to do what is most effective about this problem: GET patrice Dec 2011 #184

Well, we do agree for the most part. I believe he will win. I won't be working for him or donating sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #188

Dems are more active around here lately. patrice Dec 2011 #190

funny.... a quote from a banned DU member fascisthunter Dec 2011 #117

So? LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #120

Finally, one of you admits you want a purge of all who don't march in lockstep PVnRT Dec 2011 #133

DU2 purged conservatives. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #140

How was conservatives defined? Muskypundit Dec 2011 #185

We have them in the Democratic Party and they are far more welcome than progressives sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #194

It does seem odd. (nt) redqueen Dec 2011 #54

Anti-Obama and anti-Democrat aren't necessarily the same thing. At least I hope not. It would be a totodeinhere Dec 2011 #123

no... this is a reaction PatrynXX Dec 2011 #162

"you'll find the same number of party-hating sycophants here that there were on DU2" TELL IT Number23 Dec 2011 #168

You're right... SidDithers Dec 2011 #17

How much criticism does he deserve? kentuck Dec 2011 #18

I would say "specific" criticism would be a start. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #30

Obama does deserves criticism. But nobody deserves the half-truths, selective quotation, hyperbole emulatorloo Dec 2011 #46

that's not the point- in my humbler then humble opinionl cali Dec 2011 #59

cali! Good to see you. I was wondering if you were still around. joshcryer Dec 2011 #132

The "Democratic Party" You're Looking For Never Existed... KharmaTrain Dec 2011 #22

Bullshit a2liberal Dec 2011 #87

If any of them were alive and in office today there would be plenty of vociferous criticism totodeinhere Dec 2011 #125

I can imagine lengthy discussion on those matters DocMac Dec 2011 #151

Yes, those were bad things a2liberal Dec 2011 #269

Internment camps? dmallind Dec 2011 #130

See my reply to totodeinhere a2liberal Dec 2011 #270

In a logical world, blanket statements are meaningless. sybylla Dec 2011 #202

I'm not sure how this relates to my post a2liberal Dec 2011 #268

Actually it is provable that the political system nadinbrzezinski Dec 2011 #111

You are wrong. I'm old enough to remember a different party. styersc Dec 2011 #128

Rick Perry, Trent Lott, Richard Shelby, Phil Gramm KharmaTrain Dec 2011 #134

If "open-minded, rational, logical comments" mean only the ones that agree with me 100%, LiberalAndProud Dec 2011 #23

+1000. Another clue to this OP's attitude is CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #103

Here's a problem that I see 7wo7rees Dec 2011 #24

I thought it was 'anti-Bush policies' that brought people here. I mean if he had been abiding by the sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #31

Well put. Nt 7wo7rees Dec 2011 #43

Many questions need to be asked.... And that's a good one... midnight Dec 2011 #138

Well maybe. Turbineguy Dec 2011 #25

Especially when "articles" from politico and breitbart get 100+ recs and end up on the front page... tjwash Dec 2011 #26

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #27

This thread would have been locked on DU2. LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #29

No, no, disagreement is a moral failing and a form of oppression. Robb Dec 2011 #35

I'm liking DU3 already. nt Modern_Matthew Dec 2011 #42

Gingrich or Obama. ? It may suck, but it is what it is. Vote Democratic, Occupy for change, Zorra Dec 2011 #33

Yep. It is our only hope. Change does not come from the ballot box. nt Modern_Matthew Dec 2011 #45

"piss-poor leaders" - BINGO emilyg Dec 2011 #36

If it is so obvious, so simple, so easy then why don't you run for office? grantcart Dec 2011 #38

Why? So he can half-assedly reform a system that in reality needs to be overthrown? nt Modern_Matthew Dec 2011 #44

I believe he said he has run for office. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #193

The only Democrats that represent me are on the far left... nt Modern_Matthew Dec 2011 #40

The Democratic Party has a long history treestar Dec 2011 #50

The results of the last election cycle Bluenorthwest Dec 2011 #90

I'm not sure that the Democratic party of circa 2000 is really very different from... aikoaiko Dec 2011 #51

Some of you on this thread.... Stand and Fight Dec 2011 #56

Nope. Sorry. You've accidentally surfed onto another site whose name shall not be mentioned ... Bake Dec 2011 #58

1. Is this Democratic Underground? Yes. 2. Can we expect open-minded, rational, logical comments retread Dec 2011 #63

Sickening, isn't it? Wait Wut Dec 2011 #64

Not really. bvar22 Dec 2011 #67

Truly... kentuck Dec 2011 #72

+10,000 nt joshguitar Dec 2011 #78

Yes. I am amazed by the sheer volume of people that qualify you as Muskypundit Dec 2011 #187

Perfectly said bvar. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #192

Wait, wut? girl gone mad Dec 2011 #88

What's telling is that this thread is allowed to remain open even though it is clearly attacking Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #143

+1000 "If I were you I'd high-tail it to FDL where you'll be safe" Number23 Dec 2011 #165

I am disappointed in the attempts by some to use ridicule to stifle honest debate rhett o rick Dec 2011 #66

Barney Frank has been making a profound argument: It is UNFAIR to blame the collective Democratic Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #70

Soooooooooooo true. Many Dems think it's a social club with dues. patrice Dec 2011 #182

"No difference" worked in 2000 ... just enough. LiberalAndProud Dec 2011 #183

Did you comprehend what I wrote or were you replying to someone else? Liberal_Stalwart71 Dec 2011 #199

I was agreeing with you. LiberalAndProud Dec 2011 #203

So far, I'm satisfied that debate and dissent continue to flourish here. dawg Dec 2011 #75

You fucking rock kentuck!!!! jannyk Dec 2011 #77

Hi kentuck.. Democracydiva Dec 2011 #82

Socialism. man4allcats Dec 2011 #83

Threads like this are making the Obama 2012 UnrepentantLiberal Dec 2011 #86

Truth over party ...unless you like being lied to. L0oniX Dec 2011 #92

no kidding quinnox Dec 2011 #113

I'm a Socialist Democrat, also known as a Democratic Socialist urbuddha Dec 2011 #93

YOU ARE CORRECT, KENTUCK Skittles Dec 2011 #94

Debate is healthy, but... dsharp88 Dec 2011 #95

+1 n/t jaysunb Dec 2011 #136

It's sure not the democratic party I grew up with that clearly represented "we the people." n/t RKP5637 Dec 2011 #98

I have no problem with the "Democratic" part of it. If I wanted "Non-Aligned Party Underground" that McCamy Taylor Dec 2011 #100

Don't know how old you are but... SomethingFishy Dec 2011 #102

That probably has a lot to do with it. redqueen Dec 2011 #104

It may have to do with regionality, too. LiberalAndProud Dec 2011 #109

Unlike some of the remarks you make in your own OP? CakeGrrl Dec 2011 #105

Can I mention that one of the least "democratic" people I can think of truedelphi Dec 2011 #106

A pat on the back and a kick in the ... Loge23 Dec 2011 #108

I think some folks have a hard time with the concept that even if one is a Democrat quinnox Dec 2011 #110

my 2.5 cents: what we are witnessing is a social evolution ala Americana 2011 2012. Its all part of opihimoimoi Dec 2011 #112

It's Just Really Horribily Bad! I've Been Floundering For Such A VeryLong Time ChiciB1 Dec 2011 #115

I should read the whole thread but am running so must just say, occupy the party. mahina Dec 2011 #116

While you're at it, take a look @ Democratic Socialists of America urbuddha Dec 2011 #119

This OP sounds like it's the same old DU to me - with the same old yadda, yadda. nt quiet.american Dec 2011 #121

Criticism is democratic, and this is Democratic Underground. ozone_man Dec 2011 #124

We need to remove the word Underground maybe? mmonk Dec 2011 #126

I believe in DU oldlib Dec 2011 #127

+1000 oxymoron Dec 2011 #150

If you are "seeing very little action", bvar22 Dec 2011 #235

I have certainly been out there working. oxymoron Dec 2011 #284

Thank You KT !!! WillyT Dec 2011 #129

Kentuck I'm of the mind that you should speak freely, other wise, there will be a time when midnight Dec 2011 #137

There might be a place for you IF you're not of the far, far, far left.... it's here...... a kennedy Dec 2011 #139

Exactly krucial Dec 2011 #141

Perhaps I should have asked...? kentuck Dec 2011 #144

So call them on it, then. Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #146

Criticism vs Backstabbing DonCoquixote Dec 2011 #148

The The truth. krucial Dec 2011 #152

Since 2000... PhoenixAbove Dec 2011 #158

Unfair DonCoquixote Dec 2011 #195

For the very reasons you state, the words progressive and liberal are now used to identify so many gtar100 Dec 2011 #153

Great post. Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #155

Obama's renomination is imminent. Will you be able to handle it? MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #154

well it's DU with a severe heavy dose of PatrynXX Dec 2011 #157

Who's been censored? LoZoccolo Dec 2011 #163

Thread has 185 replies, 156 recs and 3,637 views to date. Dewey Finn Dec 2011 #186

Persecution fantasies are annoying creeksneakers2 Dec 2011 #164

"open minded"? when YOU refer to "the loyal followers of our piss-poor leaders"? What's open minded patrice Dec 2011 #166

Democratic with a small D thescreaminghead Dec 2011 #169

We have plenty of good Dems to represent us... fadedrose Dec 2011 #173

They are weak and of limited talent and intellect autorank Dec 2011 #178

Anybody from Kentucky who has the nerve to say the Dems need a leader fadedrose Dec 2011 #180

That makes no sense. Whatsoever. Muskypundit Dec 2011 #189

If KY Dems have not manifested a functional leader, what is OP's expertise on the qualities of patrice Dec 2011 #191

Your logic is what needs to be examined. Kaleko Dec 2011 #198

Isn't Kentuck from Kentucky? fadedrose Dec 2011 #212

Re Kentuck's head: Anyone who thinks that likely does not understand our problem or does not care. patrice Dec 2011 #231

I completely understand Kentuck ewagner Dec 2011 #200

Me too!! This struggle is about what to DO about them that stands half-a-chance of being EFFECTIVE. patrice Dec 2011 #229

Nobody is on our side, it seems. Quantess Dec 2011 #205

I just can't understand you muriel_volestrangler Dec 2011 #206

Hello my friend Crewleader Dec 2011 #207

As a Dem I find I have Permission fredamae Dec 2011 #208

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #210

Post removed Post removed Dec 2011 #211

It all boils down to this - disndat Dec 2011 #213

*****************REC!!!******************** patrice Dec 2011 #232

DLC Underground. Jakes Progress Dec 2011 #215

why not move on to greener pastures then, Jake? MjolnirTime Dec 2011 #221

Lots of pastures out there. Jakes Progress Dec 2011 #223

^*****************REC!!!********************^ bvar22 Dec 2011 #237

democratic party is out of phase scentopine Dec 2011 #219

I'm not giving up on the way DU has been changed, just I continue to wonder, "Is it democratic?" ... MrMickeysMom Dec 2011 #224

K&R. Mr_Jefferson_24 Dec 2011 #225

There are "locksteppers" on both sides of this question - AND - there are cognitively free patrice Dec 2011 #230

I think you're on to something Anatos Dec 2011 #249

Thanks. kentuck Dec 2011 #236

No. It is the circular firing squad lefty version of the TeaNut Party bitching board thanks to you. RBInMaine Dec 2011 #233

Up to our neck in the Big Muddy... kentuck Dec 2011 #238

Amen /nt Anatos Dec 2011 #274

Another cynical hipster heard from Anatos Dec 2011 #242

Our leaders most definitely do not "ROCK!" dawg Dec 2011 #245

You haven't a clue Anatos Dec 2011 #250

Well Good. Here is a Group Photo for you! bvar22 Dec 2011 #251

Reid, Pelosi and Obama. Leadership just doesn't come better than that. Or does it? dawg Dec 2011 #257

I didn't say they were the only great leaders Anatos Dec 2011 #259

"the best we've ever had" dawg Dec 2011 #271

Mt. Rushmore is reserved for Presidents. Anatos Dec 2011 #273

I wonder the same thing from time to time Proud Liberal Dem Dec 2011 #244

What office did you run for? Major Hogwash Dec 2011 #248

Funny how not one of your friends in this thread will acknowledge THEIR destruction of EFCA 2.0 or patrice Dec 2011 #255

Funny how so many of your friends in this thread are so comfortable with Libertarian memes. patrice Dec 2011 #256

The idea is to fix what's broken, take over what has been usurped, rebuild rather than destroy. gtar100 Dec 2011 #260

I hear there's a better way to do it. n/t leeroysphitz Dec 2011 #265

I dunno DeathToTheOil Dec 2011 #286