General Discussion

lastlib

(28,247 posts)

290. you are correct that the DoI is not law....

Wed Apr 24, 2013, 11:45 AM

Apr 2013

but it certainly carries a certain probative value in any intelligent debate on the subject. I would also support a constitutional amendment to abolish it, but I don't think it would be required. Just as the Supreme Court overruled legal segregation in schools, it could also overrule the death penalty--for example, finding that it is unfairly administered, and inherently cruel and unusual. I admit that may be a stretch, and impossible with the current RW clowns on the SCOTUS, but down the road, maybe.... I also think Congress could abolish it statutorily, but that's just as unlikely. It probably would take a constitutional amendment to settle it for all time, so I guess we're probably stuck with capital punishment for my lifetime. But we can work toward it........

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A Progressive Forum should never advocate the Death Penalty. [View all] trumad Apr 2013 OP

I am never okay with the taking of another human life. Terra Alta Apr 2013 #1

To me it is equally as barbaric as the crime they arthritisR_US Apr 2013 #34

The State should NEVER have the power to take life. lastlib Apr 2013 #58

^^THIS^^ BrotherIvan Apr 2013 #196

YES!!! AMEN to that! liindy Apr 2013 #249

+1000 denem Apr 2013 #260

For better or for worse, the Declaration of Independence is not law in the US. Laelth Apr 2013 #280

you are correct that the DoI is not law.... lastlib Apr 2013 #290

I have used the Declaration extensively as support in political discussions. Laelth Apr 2013 #291

And a teabagger would come back and ask why you support abortions. Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #119

You can't. No one can booley Apr 2013 #140

Good post. immoderate Apr 2013 #159

Because it's not a child. kiva Apr 2013 #160

I would tell the teabagger that life does not begin Terra Alta Apr 2013 #186

They want a sound-bite answer to a sound-bite question. I refuse to be baited. lastlib Apr 2013 #250

The death penalty is State sanctioned premeditated murder lunatica Apr 2013 #2

I agree! n/t arthritisR_US Apr 2013 #35

As was the Crucifixion tblue Apr 2013 #178

Even the Bible distinguishes between killing and murder. aquart Apr 2013 #248

What does the original scripture say? lunatica Apr 2013 #264

I'd be real hesitant to say "original" about any biblical manuscript of any kind. aquart Apr 2013 #300

If the word is supposed to be murder that would make sense lunatica Apr 2013 #301

then one should be for Clarence the nanny and not letting George Bailey drown. graham4anything Apr 2013 #3

And if you check yourself and find that you're truly progressive Shivering Jemmy Apr 2013 #4

The death penalty is not wrong per se, it's just no longer necessary. reformist2 Apr 2013 #5

It is wrong, per se. Murder is wrong no matter who does it. AAO Apr 2013 #47

Murder is wrong. Self-defense is not. In primitive societies, they had to execute dangerous people. reformist2 Apr 2013 #50

Self-defense? What you talkin bout? They're already in prison! AAO Apr 2013 #54

That doesn't help other prisoners or guards. former9thward Apr 2013 #146

We'd better kill them all then to protect them from themselves and others. AAO Apr 2013 #151

I am not interested in protecting anyone from themselves. former9thward Apr 2013 #152

Assisted suicide is a little different than murder. AAO Apr 2013 #198

Sometimes it is too late. former9thward Apr 2013 #206

And how exactly does the death penalty qualify as self-defense? marmar Apr 2013 #60

+1. I am opposed to the death penalty under all circumstances. Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #6

Never say never. n/t Animal Chin Apr 2013 #7

Why? What could it ever concievably do that is good or moral? AAO Apr 2013 #49

There's almost as much cognitive dissonance... Spider Jerusalem Apr 2013 #8

And 'liberal' men JustAnotherGen Apr 2013 #282

Yet liberal democrats support it in large numbers dems_rightnow Apr 2013 #9

Not sure everyone that thinks they're liberal really is. AAO Apr 2013 #52

And what exactly is "your" definition? onenote Apr 2013 #84

I am my own definition. AAO Apr 2013 #86

I'm not asking you to agree with me. I'm asking what your definition is. onenote Apr 2013 #90

Do you understand what a progressive is? It's not my job to educate you. AAO Apr 2013 #92

Do you understand that there is not necessarily one "progressive stand" on every issue? onenote Apr 2013 #94

There is for this progressive ! AAO Apr 2013 #95

Well fans, we have found the "perfect progressive"! onenote Apr 2013 #97

Perfect for me - I never said I was perfect for you. AAO Apr 2013 #99

C'mon Gertrude. We're just having some fun. onenote Apr 2013 #102

Isn't life grand! AAO Apr 2013 #107

My platform includes that one, and also contains truedelphi Apr 2013 #217

are you suggesting... Bully Taw Apr 2013 #254

Oh of course, I'm not. I have it on good authority that truedelphi Apr 2013 #255

i live in Boston, and i can assure you Bully Taw Apr 2013 #256

Yeah, I know. I live in 'Murka, truedelphi Apr 2013 #293

wow! Bully Taw Apr 2013 #294

back when George Dubya was Prez, liberal-style people wanted to know the truedelphi Apr 2013 #298

My definition of a liberal is one that is open-minded and rarely 100% sure about anything. nm rhett o rick Apr 2013 #232

I never met a liberal democrat who supports the DP. DU does not differ in the regard from liberals sabrina 1 Apr 2013 #101

"only civilized country" -- I'd be careful with that terminology onenote Apr 2013 #128

Japan has the DP. Lucky Luciano Apr 2013 #240

I agree. H2O Man Apr 2013 #10

I think the DU has a lot of non-liberals! Logical Apr 2013 #11

Can anyone be both liberal and rigidly exclusionary? aquart Apr 2013 #15

People are allowed to define thenselves as angels if they like AAO Apr 2013 #55

Exactly. How dare anyone tell the neighborhood CPA that's he's not in fact, a third-world dictator LanternWaste Apr 2013 #184

Indeed, Logical. DU is home to Democrats, liberals, and others on the left. Laelth Apr 2013 #281

I'm not 'progressive' which is a gutless word. I'm a liberal. aquart Apr 2013 #12

How about liberal progressive? MrMickeysMom Apr 2013 #98

"Now take that bed, Procrustes, and have a nice nap." ashling Apr 2013 #200

i take exception to your description of "progressive" as gutless frylock Apr 2013 #215

Yup! nt Lucky Luciano Apr 2013 #242

i'm against the death penalty barbtries Apr 2013 #13

I oppose the death penalty but don't think its the be all and end all of what defines a progressive onenote Apr 2013 #14

Same here davidpdx Apr 2013 #21

How about being progressive across the board? AAO Apr 2013 #59

What if guilt is not in question (e.g. McVeigh)? Shrek Apr 2013 #16

the death penalty costs more than keeping someone imprisoned for life. I don't think there is any auntAgonist Apr 2013 #87

+1 intheflow Apr 2013 #117

what is gained by killing the person? Warren Stupidity Apr 2013 #192

McVeigh admitted that he bombed the Murrah building Shrek Apr 2013 #195

crazy people admit to all sorts of things. Warren Stupidity Apr 2013 #201

Note that the guilty plea was rejected Shrek Apr 2013 #208

The guilty plea was accepted and he was sentenced to death. Warren Stupidity Apr 2013 #210

Not true dreamnightwind Apr 2013 #202

There have been many cases where innocent people have been pressured/coerced into confessing cui bono Apr 2013 #229

Since when did DU be come the Progressive (capital P) Forum?? Skidmore Apr 2013 #17

I guess you have to be so far left before your presence is acceptable. Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #213

Since when did valuing human life become a far left prinicple? cui bono Apr 2013 #230

People that are sent to prison for life do not appeal their sentences? Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #231

It's been shown in studies. cui bono Apr 2013 #233

Ageed democrank Apr 2013 #18

I have mixed feelings on the Death Penalty - it's an issue I haven't decided yet el_bryanto Apr 2013 #19

Are there now "standards" for belonging on DU? hamsterjill Apr 2013 #130

The only rationale Arby Apr 2013 #20

+1 nt Live and Learn Apr 2013 #76

Best reply in this thread, IMO War Horse Apr 2013 #194

Correct, and vengeance is wrong dreamnightwind Apr 2013 #211

I support the death penalty only when it's administered on the spot in commission of a very violent Flatulo Apr 2013 #22

Self defense isn't a penalty TheKentuckian Apr 2013 #42

Well said malaise Apr 2013 #23

Then apply your own standard in reverse dmallind Apr 2013 #24

killing someone to show that killing is wrong. Javaman Apr 2013 #25

Killing somebody to stop them killing again? dmallind Apr 2013 #44

and killing is good how? nt Javaman Apr 2013 #48

Who said it's good? It may however be necessary. dmallind Apr 2013 #63

killing is necessary how? nt Javaman Apr 2013 #162

I'm going to play devil's advocate here Harry Monroe Apr 2013 #189

I don't believe in the death penalty for anyone Javaman Apr 2013 #197

I do admire the courage of your convictions. Harry Monroe Apr 2013 #227

It's not up to us to decide who "forfeits their right to live" Javaman Apr 2013 #237

But the murderer has already made that decision Harry Monroe Apr 2013 #241

yes and he has to live with it. Javaman Apr 2013 #247

At least he gets to live. But too bad for his victim, huh? I guess it sucks to be him. Harry Monroe Apr 2013 #258

If living for the rest of your life in prison, where it's well known that your Javaman Apr 2013 #269

I never once said that it wasn't Harry Monroe Apr 2013 #283

we are talking about capital punishment. Javaman Apr 2013 #285

And you have stated your position eloquently and logically Harry Monroe Apr 2013 #288

Thanks. :) Javaman Apr 2013 #289

It is a thorny issue and a complex one if you don't view the world in black and white Harry Monroe Apr 2013 #286

I've had to walk that walk. Javaman Apr 2013 #287

does it have to 100%? Realistically, is there much difference between 99.9% cali Apr 2013 #28

The same standards should apply, no? dmallind Apr 2013 #61

phaw. no. cali Apr 2013 #118

small minds AAO Apr 2013 #62

Sure, keep telling yourself that. Try it to the families of victims or previously convicted killers dmallind Apr 2013 #64

That's why they don't make those decisions! AAO Apr 2013 #68

Read it again. Jeez..... dmallind Apr 2013 #78

So you advocate murder, that's your right. AAO Apr 2013 #83

Do you believe anyone who kills someone else should be put to death? whopis01 Apr 2013 #120

The Death Penalty RobinA Apr 2013 #26

Have to agree. K and R Ishoutandscream2 Apr 2013 #27

I'm OK with DP when agency of heinous crime is certain and no serious mitigating circumstances. aikoaiko Apr 2013 #29

The three Rs: Revenge, Retaliation, Retribution G_j Apr 2013 #30

you forgot Recidivism dmallind Apr 2013 #67

And- Rehabilitation. Nevermind- Redemption KittyWampus Apr 2013 #103

I'm against the death penalty, even for this guy. randome Apr 2013 #31

He can define it for himself, and I agree with him! AAO Apr 2013 #65

however Niceguy1 Apr 2013 #136

He has a right to try to, but only you can say what you believe. AAO Apr 2013 #143

"OK with putting innocent people to death"? cartach Apr 2013 #32

Why? Orrex Apr 2013 #37

Agree with all except last paragraph. Some people are afraid they will be let out and kill again. freshwest Apr 2013 #179

All good points Orrex Apr 2013 #182

Agreed, and rightwingers who want to execute rather than pay money to keep killers incarcerated, freshwest Apr 2013 #185

Agreed! broadcaster75201 Apr 2013 #33

Yes, and some people in this thread are proving it! AAO Apr 2013 #70

America is "one of the most barbaric Nations in history" onenote Apr 2013 #88

Let's see... bobclark86 Apr 2013 #161

Despite your "maybe" I'll take your post as agreeing with me onenote Apr 2013 #167

Who died and made you judge, jury and executioner of all progressives? BeyondGeography Apr 2013 #36

Thanks get the red out Apr 2013 #40

Let's see - according to you AAO Apr 2013 #73

WOW you have ESP! You can read my mind! get the red out Apr 2013 #122

Well, everyone does it to me. While in Rome... AAO Apr 2013 #126

If the definition of Murder is Unlawful Killing, the State that enacts the Law, is not criminal. freshwest Apr 2013 #223

Why, that's all the rage on D.U. Lately. I'm against the DP... Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #135

I am against the death penalty in all cases even heinous economic crimes by the 1%ers. byeya Apr 2013 #38

A supposedly progressive forum LWolf Apr 2013 #39

Best post in the thread. nt woo me with science Apr 2013 #53

'thou shalt not kill' no asterisk spanone Apr 2013 #41

render unto caesar that which is ceasar's and he wasnt talking just about money leftyohiolib Apr 2013 #104

Thou shalt not murder. Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #116

k&r when we claim to have better morals we need to show better morals dembotoz Apr 2013 #43

It sickens me when people cheer for death. AAO Apr 2013 #45

Agreed. Also, life imprisonment without a chance for parole is a form of death penalty. marble falls Apr 2013 #46

I am still conflicted on this one but I do agree in principle. idwiyo Apr 2013 #66

some folks are just to dangerous to let go free ever--charlie manson, jeff dahlmer, dick chenney, dembotoz Apr 2013 #156

Who ges to make that list? Mobs or politically appointed "officials"? marble falls Apr 2013 #165

K&R Agree. Support for state sanctioned murder should be a TOS violation. idwiyo Apr 2013 #51

I'd vote for that every time! I can't stand murderers! AAO Apr 2013 #74

I think the death penalty is the easy way out. I want the person who kills other to be put southernyankeebelle Apr 2013 #56

yes. n/t auntAgonist Apr 2013 #89

+1 get the red out Apr 2013 #129

This is my conclusion also Inkfreak Apr 2013 #163

Yes I agree with you. Another thing that bothers me is that they give the death southernyankeebelle Apr 2013 #187

This is the only reason I stopped supporting the DP. Wait Wut Apr 2013 #224

Now that is a good idea. By the time they die they would be having conversations southernyankeebelle Apr 2013 #228

there are a SHITLOAD of things a 'progressive' forum ProdigalJunkMail Apr 2013 #57

And that doesn't make it right. AAO Apr 2013 #75

and no one said it does... ProdigalJunkMail Apr 2013 #112

Don't get bent - just asserting a point. AAO Apr 2013 #115

i can dig it... n/t ProdigalJunkMail Apr 2013 #131

You have a great day, PJM! AAO Apr 2013 #139

I'm not for the death penalty... musical_soul Apr 2013 #69

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #71

There are executions I do not oppose Bad Thoughts Apr 2013 #72

You're thinking too much. Just try resting on principle. AAO Apr 2013 #77

Ideology is for Teapublicans Bad Thoughts Apr 2013 #91

Intelligent, educated people should pay attention to details. AAO Apr 2013 #93

Google Polly Klass. cliffordu Apr 2013 #79

Thank you, cliffordu Carolina Apr 2013 #147

Yep. cliffordu Apr 2013 #154

I was young, but I remember that one, too. GoCubsGo Apr 2013 #299

What fraction of an innocent is it worth killing to kill a murderer? Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #172

Killing is never the answer! peace13 Apr 2013 #80

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #164

That's why we're progressives. mountain grammy Apr 2013 #81

I'm a progressive... Nitram Apr 2013 #82

Ditto! Carolina Apr 2013 #149

Thank You! n/t auntAgonist Apr 2013 #85

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #96

Revenge has nothing to do with justice. idwiyo Apr 2013 #106

What do you call "Absolutely irrefutable" Google the innocence project and get back to me. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #109

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #121

No, I don't get your point. For every one of them, there are 100 that Law enforcement thought was stevenleser Apr 2013 #123

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #141

For you, is "justice" revenge? An eye for an eye thing? Serious question. uppityperson Apr 2013 #144

Again, your assumptions are off. I would rather be executed than in a super max. So, your stevenleser Apr 2013 #145

What is a "first-rank progressive?" cyberswede Apr 2013 #158

Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #173

WTF? cyberswede Apr 2013 #127

What "ultimate punishment"? Being locked up in a supermax until they die? Revenge is not Justice. uppityperson Apr 2013 #138

And some of these people are years later found nadinbrzezinski Apr 2013 #166

A policy of only executing in those circumstances will fail sometimes. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #175

Life without provision for parole or early release in solitary confinement at ADX is OK instead FarCenter Apr 2013 #100

so much for big tent -trumad's making the rules now on his hit and run post leftyohiolib Apr 2013 #105

But they're only the rules for Trumad onenote Apr 2013 #113

He's entitled to try. We're entitled to laugh. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #125

I'm fine with death penalty in two cases, If you rape a child 10 or younger, no need to live.. snooper2 Apr 2013 #108

In those cases, they're put away in solitary because their fellow inmates would murder them. BlueCaliDem Apr 2013 #133

I disagree it's a waste of space and resources snooper2 Apr 2013 #134

And I disagree with your disagreement. BlueCaliDem Apr 2013 #137

I'm for the death penalty Capt. Obvious Apr 2013 #190

Depressive forums are free to do so though. Kablooie Apr 2013 #110

Why I oppose the death penalty. onenote Apr 2013 #111

Murder as state sanctioned punishment is wrong. Progressive dog Apr 2013 #114

The death penalty sucks. Litmus test issues suck almost as bad. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2013 #124

What should a progressive forum always be for? IMHO, it should always be for open discussions. AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #132

Frankly Carolina Apr 2013 #142

Agreed. The death penalty is a long standing staple of the conservative agenda. nt Zorra Apr 2013 #148

Mind if I ditto this post? Phentex Apr 2013 #153

Not at all. Republican Party on Crime ~ Zorra Apr 2013 #157

Purity test fail stklurker Apr 2013 #150

Why make him a martyr when that is what he wants? Make him live a life of hell in a cell instead. appleannie1 Apr 2013 #155

We are very fortunate to have you to define progressivism for us. rrneck Apr 2013 #168

So, if you are FOR the death penalty, let me ask one question. RoccoR5955 Apr 2013 #169

Any country that still executes it's prisoners is a Barbaric society newmember Apr 2013 #170

Except for your last paragraph, this thread turned out to be very interesting. randome Apr 2013 #171

I might well support the death penalty if it could be applied infallibly or if there were no prisons Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2013 #174

I am against the DP on principle Taverner Apr 2013 #176

K&R redqueen Apr 2013 #177

So we kill someone to show that killing is wrong. WHEN CRABS ROAR Apr 2013 #180

No, indeed. n/t Orsino Apr 2013 #181

I AGREE. SalviaBlue Apr 2013 #183

If we are so terrified of murderers... NiteOwll Apr 2013 #188

This forum advocates nothing on the subject.... brooklynite Apr 2013 #191

If we are going to continue to behave like a pre-enlightenment society Warren Stupidity Apr 2013 #193

George Carlin: "The death penalty doesn't work if you use it on people who aren't afraid to die." Initech Apr 2013 #199

So you really mean: Anyone POSTING on a Progressive forum should never advocate the death penalty Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #203

if that's how you read it.. trumad Apr 2013 #204

Well, since DU doesn't exactly have a party platform or make policy statements Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #207

yep trumad Apr 2013 #209

So, in your opinion, a Democrat who is okay with the death penalty in certain situations Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #212

Prove to me the system is full proof...can you? trumad Apr 2013 #219

Fool proof? No, I can't. Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #225

A dodge huh? trumad Apr 2013 #235

If we have him dead to rights, sure. Common Sense Party Apr 2013 #236

If is a big fucking word isnt it? trumad Apr 2013 #239

I don't pick and choose. trumad Apr 2013 #261

I'll answer your question onenote Apr 2013 #245

Nope---but at least that person isn't dead. trumad Apr 2013 #262

no, but they'll never get back what was taken from them onenote Apr 2013 #268

giving me a fucking break trumad Apr 2013 #270

If you deserved one, I would onenote Apr 2013 #275

Then peace out Brother. trumad Apr 2013 #277

Agreed. Jamaal510 Apr 2013 #205

this stopped being a progressive forum in January of 2009 frylock Apr 2013 #214

yeah. progressoid Apr 2013 #221

Nice to see you can come back from the darkside libodem Apr 2013 #216

My opinion on the Death Penality is that is still wrong even if 100% fool proof jimlup Apr 2013 #218

Agree---even if it was 100 percent perfect.. trumad Apr 2013 #220

I agree... RGinNJ Apr 2013 #252

Yet it is ok for a progressive forum to support a candidate who is in favor of capital punishment? Freddie Stubbs Apr 2013 #222

Some people do nuance and shades of gray. MrSlayer Apr 2013 #226

I agree steve2470 Apr 2013 #234

Excuse me for playing devil's advocate, but couldn't this argument apply to ANY punishment? eom tarheelsunc Apr 2013 #238

Sometimes it is not about revenge or being a theoretical deterrent. Lucky Luciano Apr 2013 #243

Not everyone who posts here should be assumed to actually BE a progressive/Lib DEM. blkmusclmachine Apr 2013 #244

"full proof"? radiclib Apr 2013 #246

I am opposed to the DP, but disagree with the 100% level of proof. Kennah Apr 2013 #251

Human emotion ultimately deciding the death of another is usually murder. flvegan Apr 2013 #253

I'm 100% against the death penalty. IrishEyes Apr 2013 #257

If the death penalty comes in the form of a Predator drone, without benefit of a trial, OnyxCollie Apr 2013 #259

People here? trumad Apr 2013 #265

There's someone in this thread OnyxCollie Apr 2013 #273

A Progressive Forum should also LostOne4Ever Apr 2013 #263

Well if so-called Progressives are happy using the death penalty trumad Apr 2013 #266

Who said we were happy? LostOne4Ever Apr 2013 #267

and I stick by it 100 percent trumad Apr 2013 #271

FTFY LostOne4Ever Apr 2013 #272

But I didn't did I/ trumad Apr 2013 #274

and you've said you're okay with locking up innocent people for life onenote Apr 2013 #276

I said its ok to lock up innocent people for life? trumad Apr 2013 #279

I would favor a Constitutional amendment to abolish the death penalty. Laelth Apr 2013 #278

I always enjoy being told what to think? panzerfaust Apr 2013 #284

Death is far too kind to Tsarnaev. backscatter712 Apr 2013 #292

Don't like the death penalty but some cases tempt me.... jg15 Apr 2013 #295

no civilized country except us uses it. trumad Apr 2013 #296

Japan isn't civilized? Joseph Ledger Apr 2013 #303

While personally against the death penalty, I think stopping it JCMach1 Apr 2013 #297

It can never be 100 percent full proof deaniac21 Apr 2013 #302