General Discussion

alcibiades_mystery

(36,437 posts)

213. Yes, it's a fairly small issue

Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:51 PM

Apr 2013

I'm interested in what happened. I'm not interested in making a big issue of the boat shooting.

So he didn't have a gun. OK. So a bunch of jacked up, exhausted, stressed out cops blasted away at the boat, mistakenly believing that they were taking fire from it. Fine. Big deal. He wasn't killed. He probably wasn't even wounded additionally. It's not a big deal.

I like the actual true narrative in such cases. I'm not condemning the cops or anyone else. I like the truth of the matter. Here, we start to see some truth: the younger Tsarnaev had no gun in the boat. That's admitted. What looks increasingly probable is that these two guys had the one gun (the 9mm) and the several explosives. This is starting to seem like the truth of the matter. Do we know for sure yet? No. But we can make plausible extrapolations from what we do know. These two guys had a single firearm and these explosives. They surely used everything at their disposal to kill or injure more cops. But the developing truth of the matter suggests that they only had the one gun.

I'm not making some grandiose point. I have no agenda here other than the truth of the matter.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

218 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

He didn't even have a gun in the boat , Yet the police riddled the boat WITH GUNFIRE [View all] newmember Apr 2013 OP

-1 Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #1

what's wrong newmember Apr 2013 #2

This town deserves a better class of trolling. nt geek tragedy Apr 2013 #3

+1 uppityperson Apr 2013 #4

Oh I'm sorry , this make you feel better about the police in Boston newmember Apr 2013 #5

Your pity party for the terrorist who was not shot in this standoff is duly noted. nt geek tragedy Apr 2013 #7

+1 Still think the OP needs to brush up on his trolling. Katashi_itto Apr 2013 #143

Oh yeah, let's just Zoeisright Apr 2013 #6

Ahhh yeah.... it's called containment newmember Apr 2013 #8

Have you seen the boat or shots where they fired? Did they release any photos yet? uppityperson Apr 2013 #22

Yes , the owner of the boat posted pictures newmember Apr 2013 #27

Link? I'd like to see them. Thank you. How do you decide what info to trust? uppityperson Apr 2013 #31

Agree with uppityperson. Link? n/t susanna Apr 2013 #63

There's a thread about it in GD here newmember Apr 2013 #69

I notice you keep avoiding answering my question. How do you decide uppityperson Apr 2013 #81

it's a very good question. i think we all decide based on our own experience & personal bias. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #96

Yes... it's on that thermal video. Fawke Em Apr 2013 #77

Thank you. uppityperson Apr 2013 #82

How do you decide what is real and what isn't. bahrbearian Apr 2013 #170

Do you know they did not ask him to surrender prior to firing? Bluenorthwest Apr 2013 #30

Do you know what he said from his courageous hiding spot in a stranger's boat? Perhaps he claimed to newmember Apr 2013 #73

You don't know when that happened. It could just as easily have happened near the end. n/t pnwmom Apr 2013 #126

"courageous hiding spot"??? actslikeacarrot Apr 2013 #163

How do you know they did not ask him to surrendeer? uppityperson Apr 2013 #33

They did. elleng Apr 2013 #50

Conviced to surrender .... lol newmember Apr 2013 #65

He was never in critical condition. LisaL Apr 2013 #68

My mistake he was listed as serious condition newmember Apr 2013 #71

then why is the media saying he's in critical conditon? HiPointDem Apr 2013 #97

He's in FAIR condition now. MADem Apr 2013 #117

the poster claimed he was never in critical condition. the media reported he was in critical HiPointDem Apr 2013 #121

The media has reported a lot of stuff, but in this case, I think they got that from the MADem Apr 2013 #138

Are you 100% sure they didn't? Warpy Apr 2013 #52

How do you know they didn't? How do you know he didn't make a noise pnwmom Apr 2013 #125

After murdering a young campus cop in cold blood, too...nt MADem Apr 2013 #58

So he was convicted for that murder, already. bahrbearian Apr 2013 #171

Yes. supernaut Apr 2013 #185

He will be. They've got him on video committing that murder, too. MADem Apr 2013 #204

I'll wait till after the trial . bahrbearian Apr 2013 #206

Of course you will. We all will, since none of us have a time machine. MADem Apr 2013 #207

So now you'll wait for the trial. I thought he was guilty. Now he's not? bahrbearian Apr 2013 #208

YOU thought he was guilty? Well, then, why are you crabbing at me? MADem Apr 2013 #209

I was just going by what you told me. bahrbearian Apr 2013 #211

I think you confuse being guilty of something with being guilty in a court of law uppityperson Apr 2013 #212

Does being declared guilty on the internet count? I'll wait for the trial. We might even have bahrbearian Apr 2013 #215

He never had a gun, so he never shot at them alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #86

I'm confused how you could be so sure of this? brett_jv Apr 2013 #112

He can't. He's just guessing. pnwmom Apr 2013 #128

How do you know he NEVER had a gun? Just because they only recovered the one on the brother pnwmom Apr 2013 #127

I don't know whether he threw any of the bombs alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #184

You said before he had no weapon, but most of the rest of us pnwmom Apr 2013 #196

I said he had no "weapon"? I don't think I did alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #199

What about the self-inflicted throat wound? Slingshot? HooptieWagon Apr 2013 #160

Indeed, what about it? alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #173

You just rocked the boat. LOL rightsideout Apr 2013 #9

'Others' are engaging newmember in discussion here, elleng Apr 2013 #23

The response "your concern is noted" is Butterbean Apr 2013 #166

I just have a hard time tblue Apr 2013 #10

You know how scary that sounds newmember Apr 2013 #13

His rights were not suspended, elleng Apr 2013 #21

They were trying to capture him alive, could very easily have shot him to little bits. uppityperson Apr 2013 #26

+1 HiPointDem Apr 2013 #38

I heard they read him the Miranda. So what rights did they take away? pnwmom Apr 2013 #129

You know what's amazing to me? malaise Apr 2013 #141

the ferocity on DU to accept and condemn based on what they are being told in the Swagman Apr 2013 #144

I agree. midnight Apr 2013 #152

I am definitely willing to cut the police some slack in this situation GitRDun Apr 2013 #11

A negotiator had been talking to him. elleng Apr 2013 #12

I believe I heard the Watertown chief also say that bullets... grasswire Apr 2013 #15

Right. elleng Apr 2013 #18

Officials: Suspect Unarmed When Arrested in Boat newmember Apr 2013 #25

Since Mr. Tsarnaev had ZERO GUNS in the boat, that's quite a miraculous occurrence alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #87

So, now it's 'probably' ... a 'fact'. brett_jv Apr 2013 #114

Making stuff up...he definitely didn't have one in the boat, right alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #174

You don't know there is no evidence -- all you know is the photos you have seen. pnwmom Apr 2013 #197

Of the publicly available evidence, there is none that he held a gun alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #200

Is there a site where anyone can see all the publicly available evidence? pnwmom Apr 2013 #201

I don't know that I've personally seen everything that is publicly available alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #203

I'm not going to go hunting for that because I don't think it's important. pnwmom Apr 2013 #205

Yes, it's a fairly small issue alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #213

So, it's a "fact" that he "probably" didn't have a gun? My head hurts. 11 Bravo Apr 2013 #162

Agreed...that was inelegant alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #176

They lied about shots coming from the boat. This is so bad newmember Apr 2013 #16

'They' lied? elleng Apr 2013 #17

Yes newmember Apr 2013 #20

There was understandable confusion. n/t pnwmom Apr 2013 #130

I'm sure this will be investigated and reported on. Why don't we wait to see the outcome? gateley Apr 2013 #14

Yes, gate. elleng Apr 2013 #19

Most trolls are less obvious RetroLounge Apr 2013 #24

So you think they fired without warning him? BootinUp Apr 2013 #28

Oh of course not, that could never happen by police newmember Apr 2013 #37

That is some strong proof that Boston PD fucked up BootinUp Apr 2013 #39

You think those guys in Boston weren't pumped full of adrenalin. newmember Apr 2013 #45

They had all the right to assume that he wasn't unarmed. LisaL Apr 2013 #48

He's an American citizen contained as I previously stated newmember Apr 2013 #53

Mistakes will happen in such situations. LisaL Apr 2013 #57

His citizenship isn't what was question, it was whether or not he was armed davidpdx Apr 2013 #119

He could have lobbed more explosives from the boat. They didn't know what he had pnwmom Apr 2013 #132

So the citizenship was the key element here? pnwmom Apr 2013 #131

Would it be OK had the person in the boat not been an American citizen? treestar Apr 2013 #167

Hey, come on ... lpbk2713 Apr 2013 #51

Logic fallacy. Just because something has happened in a situation does not mean it will always uppityperson Apr 2013 #41

It's not a fallacy at all , not one bit newmember Apr 2013 #47

So because la cops shot a totally wrong vehicle, it logically follows that these ones, on the uppityperson Apr 2013 #75

It literally is like ... a textbook logical fallacy ... brett_jv Apr 2013 #116

The guy who owned the boat Politicalboi Apr 2013 #29

Another first report now wrong, link to interview by boat owner. uppityperson Apr 2013 #34

This proved that he was hurt long before he got into that boat graham4anything Apr 2013 #134

whut? Demonaut Apr 2013 #32

Guy's alive, right? Beacool Apr 2013 #35

As I recall, the "guy in California in the cabin" is burned to the crisp. LisaL Apr 2013 #36

If he didn't have a gun, then he couldn't have tried to kill himself or shot his tongue out either. HiPointDem Apr 2013 #40

Unless he did it before he got to the boat and ditched the gun somewhere. uppityperson Apr 2013 #42

he tried to kill himself to the extent that he shot out part of his mouth, *then* escaped to the HiPointDem Apr 2013 #59

It is quite a preposterous scenario, I'll admit alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #88

I don't recall police ever saying he tried to kill himself or shot his tongue. LisaL Apr 2013 #43

they said he tried to commit suicide in the boat and that was the reason he couldn't talk and HiPointDem Apr 2013 #54

Who are they? I heard all of it, but who is the source of this info? LisaL Apr 2013 #60

in that report, 'authorities". if you heard it, why did you say you hadn't heard it? HiPointDem Apr 2013 #61

I haven't heard police say it. LisaL Apr 2013 #62

so do you think 'investigators' are unconnected from police or policing agencies (homeland HiPointDem Apr 2013 #70

Reported by police. bahrbearian Apr 2013 #172

newmember. do you not plan on being here long, cause i cannot imagine that name seabeyond Apr 2013 #44

ROFL! BootinUp Apr 2013 #46

+1 nt Codeine Apr 2013 #158

If he was unarmed, it's fair to question why the boat was riddled with gunfire. limpyhobbler Apr 2013 #49

Do I seem intimidated newmember Apr 2013 #56

Its also a fair question as to whether the boat was "riddled" with live ammunition gunfire onenote Apr 2013 #198

Oh please. What an asinine theory. MADem Apr 2013 #55

"they would have dropped a 'hot' gun in the boat and claimed he was using it. " newmember Apr 2013 #66

Enjoy your stay, pal. nt MADem Apr 2013 #67

This message was self-deleted by its author gateley Apr 2013 #64

Any pictures of the bullet riddled boat floating around the web? Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2013 #72

Here....... I count at least 50 shots newmember Apr 2013 #79

They sho nuf shot it up alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #90

Not clear those are bullet holes... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2013 #115

How about these? magellan Apr 2013 #122

More fuzzy images in the age of gigapixles.... Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2013 #133

You're kidding, right? Occulus Apr 2013 #188

You're kidding, right? You don't think real bullets would have made a hole or two? randome Apr 2013 #194

The boat owner had a good observation rightsideout Apr 2013 #74

Yeah okay , he shot himself in the neck to commit suicide threw the gun and crawled in newmember Apr 2013 #84

One always ditches one's gun in impossible to excavate sewers upon attempting neck-shot suicide alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #93

except that he'd already been shot at by police during the gunfight/suv getaway thing. so HiPointDem Apr 2013 #91

ROFL alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #95

look at the picture of the police surrounding the boat, then the artist's rendering of dzhokhar HiPointDem Apr 2013 #104

The comic book image of him shooting the gun is, of course, ridiculous alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #106

Whoah! He had a squirt gun with Red Dye #6 in it! OMG!!!11111 uppityperson Apr 2013 #190

There was no gun alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #92

Right ... he just set the bomb that killed and maimed people ... brett_jv Apr 2013 #120

I can only alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #179

This message was self-deleted by its author Tarheel_Dem Apr 2013 #76

you are utterly failing in your efforts Skittles Apr 2013 #78

The little boy didn't even have a gun, and yet he placed the bomb behind him to kill him /nt still_one Apr 2013 #80

Make sure to let us know how the gun range went!!! Rex Apr 2013 #83

2 anonymous officials report newmember was unarmed on the gun range shooting trip pinboy3niner Apr 2013 #85

Oh.... you guys are just wrong newmember Apr 2013 #89

And after having had bombs thrown at them and a cop shot to death, HOW were they to know that? Hekate Apr 2013 #94

They weren't alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #98

These professionals were tired, stressed human beings pnwmom Apr 2013 #136

Correct alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #177

I heard the police say he shot at them BainsBane Apr 2013 #99

there's audio of a barrage of shots. i think if no gun was found in the boat, the only possible HiPointDem Apr 2013 #101

It's quite likely the police imagined it, since he didn't have a gun alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #102

the article sites unnamed sources BainsBane Apr 2013 #103

OK...hold on to that alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #105

I see nothing humorous about any of this BainsBane Apr 2013 #107

Oh, that would the Washington Post alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #110

If that's all you're trying to say ... brett_jv Apr 2013 #123

To answer your last question. Someone they thought may have had a gun, bomb or other explosives. uppityperson Apr 2013 #193

True alcibiades_mystery Apr 2013 #195

because he didn't shoot at them? HiPointDem Apr 2013 #100

It certainly raises a question in my mind. Live and Learn Apr 2013 #108

By the way, my friends returned safely to Calif., and their family in Boston are okay too Hekate Apr 2013 #109

So now we are to judge the efficacy of the police based merely on proximity? Savannahmann Apr 2013 #148

He never had a gun ever Milliesmom Apr 2013 #111

Unanswered questions are good food for skepticism. gordianot Apr 2013 #113

They released the man they had strip. That was a reasonable precaution pnwmom Apr 2013 #135

(revmclaren comes running in) revmclaren Apr 2013 #118

After what they'd been through, it's hard to blame them for making a mistake. pnwmom Apr 2013 #124

He was already wounded before he got in the boat....... Historic NY Apr 2013 #137

How come so much flack here and not in the matching LBN ? dipsydoodle Apr 2013 #139

At the time it was reported that they were using rubber bullets. GeorgeGist Apr 2013 #140

Sure looks that way, fiberglass isn't bullet proof and the suspect would have been dead... Historic NY Apr 2013 #145

Based on the sources I'm willling to believe he had no gun... marions ghost Apr 2013 #142

Just how we're the police to know he was unarmed newfie11 Apr 2013 #146

By the same token, if we as citizens have to endure police who start shooting Savannahmann Apr 2013 #151

What??? newfie11 Apr 2013 #164

So because they are police we should expect no responsibility from them? Savannahmann Apr 2013 #168

I'd imagine we'll get the answers to all that eventually ... brett_jv Apr 2013 #189

Really? Savannahmann Apr 2013 #214

This message was self-deleted by its author seaglass Apr 2013 #147

They also had unclear thermal images of him moving about. randome Apr 2013 #149

For heavens sake! Glitterati Apr 2013 #150

Ya got that right newfie11 Apr 2013 #153

Why? Glitterati Apr 2013 #156

I totally agree newfie11 Apr 2013 #165

unless it's a troll trying to get liberals to show sympathy or concern toward the bomber Demonaut Apr 2013 #175

There seems to be several of them newfie11 Apr 2013 #186

The people who were killed at the marathon were unarmed.He didnt give a shit. SummerSnow Apr 2013 #154

So now we're Biblical in our revenge? Savannahmann Apr 2013 #161

Do you mean?? kentuck Apr 2013 #155

Here less than a week, and already making DU suck. Codeine Apr 2013 #157

+1000 (nt) Paladin Apr 2013 #159

Sorry for asking hard questions newmember Apr 2013 #181

exacty mercuryblues Apr 2013 #169

Rubber bullets, as mentioned upthread, is more plausible. randome Apr 2013 #178

They were not rubber bullets newmember Apr 2013 #182

And you know that because of your extensive forensics experience? randome Apr 2013 #192

yeah they just warrprayer Apr 2013 #217

Its a damn donco Apr 2013 #180

You bring up a good point gopiscrap Apr 2013 #183

That's what you DO when you are trying to capture someone kestrel91316 Apr 2013 #187

Rubber. Bullets. Upthread. randome Apr 2013 #191

Yup and they riddled the boat but he survived Progressive dog Apr 2013 #202

So how did the shooting range go? Rex Apr 2013 #210

How did they know who was in the boat. bahrbearian Apr 2013 #216

I was listening warrprayer Apr 2013 #218