General Discussion

Captain Stern

(2,253 posts)

73. The NRA has successfully framed the debate.

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:15 PM

Apr 2013

They've turned the gun control debate into:

Freedom vs "They are trying to take all the guns"

When given that black and white choice, "Freedom" will win every single time....no matter how many people are getting killed with guns.

In my opinion, many folks that don't agree with the NRA are unintentionally complicit in helping them frame the debate this way. Whenever someone says "fuck the second amendment" or "no guns or bullets for anybody", the other side cracks a big smile.....because they know they are winning.

The iron was hot after the Aurora and Newton shootings.......that was the perfect time to enact some reasonable gun control measures at a federal level, but nothing happened. Nothing happened because the average American was led to believe that the choice came down to "Rights" vs "Start taking away all the guns". And as long as the debate is framed that way, the NRA will continue to win, no matter how many children get shot.

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Don't let the gun nuts frame the debate [View all] Uzair Apr 2013 OP

This pretty much covers all the bases. Great post. DanTex Apr 2013 #1

This is a terrific post etherealtruth Apr 2013 #2

Embrace the 2nd Amendment... Mike Nelson Apr 2013 #3

With emphasis on Well-Regulated madokie Apr 2013 #23

+1 YoungDemCA Apr 2013 #196

Theres always this. GeorgeGist Apr 2013 #4

Facts. They will always get in their way. (nt) Uzair Apr 2013 #12

K&R baldguy Apr 2013 #5

Gun nuts have no respect for truth eom Progressive dog Apr 2013 #6

It's always sage advice to control framing. +1. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2013 #7

K&R and Welcome to DU. 99Forever Apr 2013 #8

Heck of a post. Welcome to DU! Robb Apr 2013 #9

Great advice. The pro-gun types have controlled the argument for way too long. (nt) Paladin Apr 2013 #10

This looks like the apocalypse pintobean Apr 2013 #11

People also have trouble getting drugs in Japan Recursion Apr 2013 #13

Do Canadians have trouble getting drugs? Uzair Apr 2013 #19

Don't let the nuts on either side frame the argument. nt hack89 Apr 2013 #14

Which side are you on? lastlib Apr 2013 #104

I am with the the kids of course. hack89 Apr 2013 #114

I've seen some of them do that... Neoma Apr 2013 #117

well, an awful lot of them don't want to do anything to stop it....... lastlib Apr 2013 #118

Gun OWNERS may care about those murdered kids..... Paladin Apr 2013 #147

Because you don't take the care to distinguish between owners and activists hack89 Apr 2013 #151

this is true for many posters here Duckhunter935 Apr 2013 #158

I'm surprised they don't make us use a JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #170

Trust me, it's not hard to tell the difference. (nt) Paladin Apr 2013 #177

No - I don't trust you hack89 Apr 2013 #181

The feeling is mutual, I assure you. Adios. (nt) Paladin Apr 2013 #186

The problem is...the gun control bill had nothing to do with Newtown. Honeycombe8 Apr 2013 #190

Don't forget the -- It was gang related trap -- onehandle Apr 2013 #15

When a black kid is shot, it's "Yay! Another thug off the street!" Robb Apr 2013 #21

I knew this looked familiar. Union Scribe Apr 2013 #16

Doesn't make it any less valid madokie Apr 2013 #24

Actually I find much of it reactionary foolishness. Union Scribe Apr 2013 #125

Works for Me otohara Apr 2013 #128

Welcome to DU! I'm happy you're here Cali_Democrat Apr 2013 #17

Maybe if Japan weren't an island... Pelican Apr 2013 #18

Define "Gun nut" n/t hootinholler Apr 2013 #20

Anyone whose need to own guns has not been outgrown Ron Green Apr 2013 #38

That's fairly elegant. Robb Apr 2013 #40

+1000 G_j Apr 2013 #44

Glad you wrote that. JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #66

If the shoe doesn't fit, don't worry about it. Ron Green Apr 2013 #194

Since you are holding out Japan as an example Crepuscular Apr 2013 #22

GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ DainBramaged Apr 2013 #36

Apparently you Crepuscular Apr 2013 #79

GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ DainBramaged Apr 2013 #81

when someone resorts to the kind of meaningless response Crepuscular Apr 2013 #83

Stop with the win/lose shit America loses because of your idiotic clinging to an outdated Amendment DainBramaged Apr 2013 #86

Yet another meaningless response Crepuscular Apr 2013 #93

Here's the deference between us DainBramaged Apr 2013 #100

Apparently Crepuscular Apr 2013 #116

The OP specifically invoked Japan in the context of the gun debate. Why is it not relevant geckosfeet Apr 2013 #80

OK, let's talk about suicide rates in Canada and the UK then Uzair Apr 2013 #124

since almost 2/3rds of gun related deaths in this country Crepuscular Apr 2013 #141

Canada. The UK. Uzair Apr 2013 #148

If you are willing to dismiss the suicide problem in Japan, Crepuscular Apr 2013 #166

This is the sort of inane blithering that stops all meaningful discussion. Union Scribe Apr 2013 #126

You would have to gut the 4th and 5th Amendments to be safe like Japan hack89 Apr 2013 #25

It's a question of culture JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #26

What a load of BS -- "Guns are part of who we are as a nation." Maybe that needs to change. Hoyt Apr 2013 #54

You're welcome to emmigrate any time you like. NT JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #64

The old right wing -- "don't like it leave" crud. Hoyt Apr 2013 #70

Actually, JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #77

Women carrying don't bother me much, because they usually aren't into the killing aspect of guns. Hoyt Apr 2013 #89

Most gun owners, male and female, premium Apr 2013 #91

What's your excuse, and what's the real motive? Hoyt Apr 2013 #94

What's my excuse for what? premium Apr 2013 #95

Yes, first hand experience with a bunch of gunnys. Hoyt Apr 2013 #101

Yeah, right, Ok, premium Apr 2013 #102

Guns are part of who we are as a nation marions ghost Apr 2013 #63

What a patriotic response. JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #65

If you really loved America marions ghost Apr 2013 #71

You can call me a wimp and JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #76

OK I see marions ghost Apr 2013 #84

Really good logic: billh58 Apr 2013 #99

Oh, Bill JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #103

Now, now, billh58 Apr 2013 #106

I'm perfectly happy to JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #108

Wow. billh58 Apr 2013 #111

That all you got? JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #113

Don't have to Big Guy, billh58 Apr 2013 #115

So...you've got nothing JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #119

Whatever blows your billh58 Apr 2013 #122

I don't know what part of our nation you live in Progressive dog Apr 2013 #173

No one NEEDS a gun sandy78 Apr 2013 #27

How so you plan to take away 300 million firearms from citizens? nt. premium Apr 2013 #28

Easy...do like Australia did and have a buyback then make it a felony to own a gun sandy78 Apr 2013 #30

Good grief! HappyMe Apr 2013 #31

Australia took away 600,000 guns JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #32

I vote this dumbest post ever laundry_queen Apr 2013 #97

Neither of those JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #98

You second amendment is a giant smokescreen laundry_queen Apr 2013 #105

Yes, the Bill of Rights JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #107

Well, I'm reading what you type laundry_queen Apr 2013 #110

It's kind of the way it's written. NT JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #112

Ok, premium Apr 2013 #34

GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ DainBramaged Apr 2013 #37

I'm not worried in the least about it, premium Apr 2013 #41

GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ DainBramaged Apr 2013 #53

About what I expected from you. premium Apr 2013 #58

Hows this, I clicked the ignore button DainBramaged Apr 2013 #160

That is funny stuff right there. aikoaiko Apr 2013 #195

Apparently, the first step is for about 100 or so on this board to incessantly insult Democrats and AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #56

That's interesting, premium Apr 2013 #61

You do realize that you JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #29

Why on earth would "armed confiscation" take place if these guns were made illegal? Robb Apr 2013 #45

Just picking your brain, premium Apr 2013 #48

As a Congressman, Lincoln was voted out of office for his criticism of the Mexican War. nt Robb Apr 2013 #50

This I did not know. nt. premium Apr 2013 #57

You'd be in violation JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #62

Ugh. Seriously? Seeking Serenity Apr 2013 #74

You gonna come pick them up? rl6214 Apr 2013 #132

No you won't. nt hack89 Apr 2013 #155

Who is this we you speak of? premium Apr 2013 #192

You have written a passionate and apparently well-thought argument Jenoch Apr 2013 #33

? geckosfeet Apr 2013 #35

yes Duckhunter935 Apr 2013 #42

I have also noticed Duckhunter935 Apr 2013 #43

Perhaps you should start a "Gunz are teh awesome" group. Robb Apr 2013 #46

Nope I do not Duckhunter935 Apr 2013 #67

The Ivory Tower JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #60

it would be funny if it weren't so sad G_j Apr 2013 #47

Why is it stupid? Because you say so? geckosfeet Apr 2013 #78

and way over 200 people G_j Apr 2013 #87

Hysteria. That's what. geckosfeet Apr 2013 #88

Every single trap? Uzair Apr 2013 #127

He responded to the claptrap pintobean Apr 2013 #134

Japan involuntarily confines the mentally ill kudzu22 Apr 2013 #39

This message was self-deleted by its author davidn3600 Apr 2013 #49

People REALLY need to stop comparing America to other countries davidn3600 Apr 2013 #51

oH, SO IT'S THE FAULT OF VIDEO GAMES AND THE MOVIES NOT GUNS? DainBramaged Apr 2013 #55

another response I love around here Duckhunter935 Apr 2013 #68

Here, enjoy a dog jogging, we don't have to persuade anybody that's where you're all wrong DainBramaged Apr 2013 #72

That is cruel Duckhunter935 Apr 2013 #75

"Guns are death, ergo you folks love guns ergo you love death" geckosfeet Apr 2013 #82

Go pat your gun buddies back in the gungeon DainBramaged Apr 2013 #90

In other words, it was never about having a "conversation"... beevul Apr 2013 #153

Gunz and more gunz DainBramaged Apr 2013 #157

and many of us Duckhunter935 Apr 2013 #161

You are engaging in projection. beevul Apr 2013 #167

What horseshit DainBramaged Apr 2013 #171

Calling something bullshit isn't a rebuttal. beevul Apr 2013 #175

We do not need to........... Duckhunter935 Apr 2013 #156

Repeat after me, we want the carnage to end, you want more guns DainBramaged Apr 2013 #159

sorry to disappoint you Duckhunter935 Apr 2013 #164

No...you completely missed my point davidn3600 Apr 2013 #69

They play the same fucking games around the word DainBramaged Apr 2013 #162

The Americans are not like the others trap Uzair Apr 2013 #129

Shutting out all opinions other than your own makes you closed-minded davidn3600 Apr 2013 #146

Constantly changing the subject makes you the loser Uzair Apr 2013 #165

Most excellent. Hoyt Apr 2013 #52

Excellent post. You covered it pretty much from A to Z. BlueCaliDem Apr 2013 #59

The NRA has successfully framed the debate. Captain Stern Apr 2013 #73

No - nothing happened because to enable national bg checks would cost money. geckosfeet Apr 2013 #85

I respectfully disagree Captain Stern Apr 2013 #142

oh yes. i have had similar experiences with some folks. But in any case, the systems must be built. geckosfeet Apr 2013 #179

Excellent post. Union Scribe Apr 2013 #130

Wrong. 99Forever Apr 2013 #149

I think you're wrong (at least in part) Captain Stern Apr 2013 #168

The 2nd Amendment is not a gun nut frame. aikoaiko Apr 2013 #92

Wow, this post is pretty far out there. Alva Goldbook Apr 2013 #96

Nice post Alva. Very interesting - have to read federalist 46. geckosfeet Apr 2013 #109

Ah, this NRA billh58 Apr 2013 #121

Aren't you JohnnyBoots Apr 2013 #123

Wow, you're not giving the the OP any slack at all, are you? bluedigger Apr 2013 #137

The Americans are not like the others trap Uzair Apr 2013 #152

Yeah, let us know when you start working on getting the 2nd repealed. rl6214 Apr 2013 #120

The second amendment trap Uzair Apr 2013 #133

I have nothing? rl6214 Apr 2013 #193

Now see what you've done? billh58 Apr 2013 #131

What's funny is that I listed everything they would say Uzair Apr 2013 #135

You got it. billh58 Apr 2013 #139

I agree with you completely. AndyA Apr 2013 #136

I don't think Japan is a good example, unless your secretly advocating a racist agenda pediatricmedic Apr 2013 #138

Ah, how about billh58 Apr 2013 #140

Nice try pediatricmedic Apr 2013 #143

Uh, the OP is about billh58 Apr 2013 #145

The Americans are not like the others trap Uzair Apr 2013 #150

Gun violence exists separately from all other violence trap pediatricmedic Apr 2013 #154

Gun violence is more lethal than other kinds of violence. DanTex Apr 2013 #169

True and False pediatricmedic Apr 2013 #176

I'm not saying guns are the root cause. DanTex Apr 2013 #178

Have you read some of the other stuff? pediatricmedic Apr 2013 #182

Get back to me when any of that junk science gets peer reviewed. DanTex Apr 2013 #185

It is still highly subjective pediatricmedic Apr 2013 #187

All the more reason to be wary of right-wing bloggers and junk science with false data. DanTex Apr 2013 #188

Stop pretending that you care about violence Uzair Apr 2013 #174

I do care, it is part of my job pediatricmedic Apr 2013 #184

Mexico, Russia, Kenya. Really? DanTex Apr 2013 #189

But they are valid pediatricmedic Apr 2013 #191

LOL, you might find the relevance of finding 2/3 of Congress and 38 states to do as you please tritsofme Apr 2013 #144

They are trying harder than ever to dilute the message and lock down this thread DainBramaged Apr 2013 #163

Gun nuts are running out of time sandy78 Apr 2013 #172

Welcome Duckhunter935 Apr 2013 #180

Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #183