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In reply to the discussion: Don't let the gun nuts frame the debate [View all]Alva Goldbook
(149 posts)96. Wow, this post is pretty far out there.
The "debate" on how to end gun violence is over, and has been over for decades. The statistics from the UK, Canada, Japan, Australia, and a multitude of other nations comparable to the U.S. are irrefutable, and it's high time we stop allowing the gun nuts to pretend that these other nations are somehow inherently less violent.
Then explain why Washington, D.C. was the murder capital of the world when it was illegal for anyone to own a gun there. What produced an 80.591% decrease in gun homicides in D.C.? It wasn't gun control. It had been illegal to own a gun in D.C. since 1976. What produced a 80% decrease in gun homicides was urban renewal. It was replacing ghettos with thriving business districts. Gun violence isn't produced by guns. Canada has guns, Sweden has guns. They don't have gun violence. Gun violence is produced by poverty, income inequality and societal decay. Australia isn't a good example. Yeh, there's no guns Down Under. Women are also 3 times more likely to be raped there compared to the US, and people are 4 times more likely to be assaulted.
Gun nuts will also say repealing the second amendment is never going to happen, the majority support it, and blah blah blah. Again, it's completely irrelevant. Japan doesn't have one. Canada doesn't have one. The UK doesn't have one. America doesn't need one either. Fuck the second amendment.
It's about passing sane laws to reduce or even eliminate (yes, it's possible. See: Japan) gun violence. To pass those laws, you must repeal the second amendment. Stop letting them change the subject with this "it's my right" bullshit.
It's about passing sane laws to reduce or even eliminate (yes, it's possible. See: Japan) gun violence. To pass those laws, you must repeal the second amendment. Stop letting them change the subject with this "it's my right" bullshit.
Madison actually bragged about the US having a 2nd amendment in Federalist #46, saying that other governments were "afraid to trust their people with guns". Federalist #46 is an interesting read. You should read it sometime. Of course, if you want to take away my right of self-defense, you're going to have to repeal the 2nd amendment. That will require 38 states to agree to that. Just for a reference, in 2008 Obama won 26 states. Good luck with that.
Americans are not any more violent or any less violent than anyone else. What Americans do have, though, is the easiest access to deadly weapons than any other nation on Earth that has solved this problem.
Americans are not any more violent than other nations. What we do have is an income inequality problem on par with freaking Zimbabwe. And when you have that, you have societal decay. And with societal decay, you have a whole host of problems, including gun violence, and violence in general. But you're wrong. It's easier to get a gun in Mexico than in the USA, despite that guns are pretty much illegal in Mexico.
Stop letting gun nuts talk about anything else and everything else except the very goddamn things that are killing people, up to and including video games, movies, mental health, violent history, "multiculturalism" (THAT one is a particularly vile dog whistle), drugs, gangs (another racist dog whistle), etc.
The video games and movies thing is absurd, and if people had a modicum of understanding of psychology, they would realize that. Our history plays little into this as well. It's not multiculturalism either, or that we're a melting pot. But the Drug War is a big problem when it comes to guns. It, in part, contributes to the wealth inequality in our society. If we simply ended the Drug War, we could go a long way towards solving the problem of gun violence.
This is patently false. Criminals have a HELL of a time obtaining a gun in Japan. It's damn near impossible for them to find one, because anybody in Japan who does have a gun had to go through hoops upon hoops to ensure that they actually are "responsible gun owners".
Does that mean that criminals are powerless if they don't have a gun? The primary purpose of gun ownership in this day and age is self-protection. Will eliminating 300 million guns from this country make us all safe from crazy violent people? I don't think so. You may not realize this, but people use guns all the time to protect themselves from crazy violent criminals. I could cite endless examples of this, but this one illustrates this point quite perfectly.
Ultimately, gun nuts are just people who have been indoctrinated though childhood to have an obscene affection for deadly weapons. They just love their guns, and will stoop to any level to protect their misguided notion that they have some kind of "right" to have them
Wrong. I didn't grow up around guns. I never fired a gun until I was in my 30's. But after multiple break-ins in my neighborhood, including my next door neighbor, it was with a heavy heart that I decided I had no other choice but to protect myself and my family. And yes, the right of self-defense is an actual right. The right to own a gun is an actual right. Yes, the 2nd amendment really does exist.
You can walk around at night in any city in Japan and feel totally safe. Totally, completely safe. Nobody is going to shoot you there. How can a gun nut explain that without talking about Japan's strict gun laws? The answer is they can't, so they change the subject.
Is it the fact that Japan doesn't have guns that makes them safe, or is it that in Japan, their cities don't look like this:

Yes, income inequality really does matter.
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Great advice. The pro-gun types have controlled the argument for way too long. (nt)
Paladin
Apr 2013
#10
GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ
DainBramaged
Apr 2013
#36
GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ
DainBramaged
Apr 2013
#81
Stop with the win/lose shit America loses because of your idiotic clinging to an outdated Amendment
DainBramaged
Apr 2013
#86
The OP specifically invoked Japan in the context of the gun debate. Why is it not relevant
geckosfeet
Apr 2013
#80
This is the sort of inane blithering that stops all meaningful discussion.
Union Scribe
Apr 2013
#126
What a load of BS -- "Guns are part of who we are as a nation." Maybe that needs to change.
Hoyt
Apr 2013
#54
Women carrying don't bother me much, because they usually aren't into the killing aspect of guns.
Hoyt
Apr 2013
#89
Easy...do like Australia did and have a buyback then make it a felony to own a gun
sandy78
Apr 2013
#30
GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ
DainBramaged
Apr 2013
#37
GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ GUNZ
DainBramaged
Apr 2013
#53
Apparently, the first step is for about 100 or so on this board to incessantly insult Democrats and
AnotherMcIntosh
Apr 2013
#56
Why on earth would "armed confiscation" take place if these guns were made illegal?
Robb
Apr 2013
#45
As a Congressman, Lincoln was voted out of office for his criticism of the Mexican War. nt
Robb
Apr 2013
#50
Here, enjoy a dog jogging, we don't have to persuade anybody that's where you're all wrong
DainBramaged
Apr 2013
#72
No - nothing happened because to enable national bg checks would cost money.
geckosfeet
Apr 2013
#85
oh yes. i have had similar experiences with some folks. But in any case, the systems must be built.
geckosfeet
Apr 2013
#179
I don't think Japan is a good example, unless your secretly advocating a racist agenda
pediatricmedic
Apr 2013
#138
All the more reason to be wary of right-wing bloggers and junk science with false data.
DanTex
Apr 2013
#188
LOL, you might find the relevance of finding 2/3 of Congress and 38 states to do as you please
tritsofme
Apr 2013
#144
They are trying harder than ever to dilute the message and lock down this thread
DainBramaged
Apr 2013
#163