General Discussion

Carolina

(6,960 posts)

155. What is the source of your information about surgeons? You/your comparison are quite WRONG!

Reply to Snake Alchemist (Original post)

Mon Feb 6, 2012, 06:35 PM

Feb 2012

You are sorely mistaken about the work hours.

Do you have any idea how long it takes to become a surgeon: 4 years college, 4 years medical school, 5 years (minimum) for general surgery residency, more for cardiothoracic, neurosurgery and other surgical specialties!

The surgeon must understand, know and integrate on a moment's, life saving notice: anatomy (normal and variant), physiology, pharmacology and pathology. The skill and knowledge required are daunting.

As a physician, I can tell you that you have no idea what you're talking about. When you need coronary artery bypass surgery or internal fixation of a broken bone or evacuation of an intracranial hematoma (think Natasha Richardson) or emergency laparotomy for a ruptured appendix.... call a bricklayer!

Oh and BTW, yes, the perks of those long years of education, hard work (residency and fellowship are HARD WORK) and delayed gratification are nice cars and home,s and maybe when time allows a nice vacation after one pays off all the educational debt!

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Why are surgeons paid more than brick layers? [View all] Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 OP

They don't all have reasonable hours. Unless you think 4 am phone calls from nurses to report labs TwilightGardener Feb 2012 #1

Beats showing up at the jobsite at first light and working until darkness though. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #2

No, it doesn't. TwilightGardener Feb 2012 #15

One let's you retire at 55 though, and one has you drop dead at 55. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #25

Not necessarily. TwilightGardener Feb 2012 #41

I've found any job with that much UV exposure is not good for you longterm. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #47

I know two urologists who were on disability by age 60 mainer Feb 2012 #46

But I'm sure they have plenty saved up and it wasn't financially devastating. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #50

I'm a Union Bricklayer. I live in a NYC borough, I can answer any questions you have. FarLeftFist Feb 2012 #188

Because one has a skillset that has been deemed more valuable by society. Kurska Feb 2012 #114

Exact opposite. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #121

I have a good friend of mine who is a resident MD and sometimes works 24/7. Initech Feb 2012 #166

How deeply in debt is the bricklayer from all his years of bricklaying school? KamaAina Feb 2012 #3

Pobably more than the doctors MattBaggins Feb 2012 #12

wow - what a generalization dana_b Feb 2012 #38

Not an over generalization MattBaggins Feb 2012 #164

I imagine the relevance of your post would be if that number is unusually and consistently higher LanternWaste Feb 2012 #214

Stay classy. (nt) Posteritatis Feb 2012 #102

How many years at a surgeons salary does it take to pay off medical school bills? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #17

It took me and my husband about 10 years. mainer Feb 2012 #21

So I'd have my loans paid off by the time I was 32. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #26

And if a doc starts paying off his loans at 30... mainer Feb 2012 #31

Guess they are living high on the hog at 30. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #36

Most doctors decide that at 30, it's now or never to have kids mainer Feb 2012 #39

Weird. I thought people were able to have kids after 30. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #43

If you're a woman, you don't want to have your first kid at 45. mainer Feb 2012 #59

That's why I married 8 years my junior. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #60

Drat, that was my mistake! Not marrying a man who was 8 years younger! mainer Feb 2012 #62

It's amazing that people seem to be able to support 2 kids on less than 50K a year. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #64

while paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans? mainer Feb 2012 #66

both of us left medicine, by the way. mainer Feb 2012 #67

So tell me how much you were both making when you were 33? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #73

Making: under $100,000. Student loans: close to $200,000. mainer Feb 2012 #81

A tad different, but still a very good salary. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #85

You appear to be rather confident when budgeting other people's money without knowing LanternWaste Feb 2012 #215

Wasn't that the reason I asked the question? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #216

I made no inference as to why you asked a question. LanternWaste Feb 2012 #219

my sister was making $285k 1st year out of residency Dokkie Feb 2012 #165

An OB/GYN Sgent Feb 2012 #174

Yes, she was a surgeon mainer Feb 2012 #175

I was thinking more in the line Dokkie Feb 2012 #182

You are dissing your sister mainer Feb 2012 #206

My neurosurgeon didn't get out of training until he was 32 w8liftinglady Feb 2012 #42

I don't begrudge him. I just think you should be making a lot more money. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #45

A bricklayer's apprentice spends all day mixing mortar and hauling heavy block for Dragonfli Feb 2012 #148

I am not devaluing tradespeople KamaAina Feb 2012 #156

Because more people can be brick layers than they can be surgeons. kctim Feb 2012 #4

You sure about that? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #19

Would you rather have a surgeon build your fireplace, or a bricklayer perform your surgery? 11 Bravo Feb 2012 #70

I know doctor who enjoys building stone walls mainer Feb 2012 #84

You continue to make little sense. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #123

It's minimization like that which is really disturbing. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #126

I wish we could "minimize" most surgery to the same level. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #136

Your right. Those "little" people should learn a new skill if they want more money. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #139

I can see that you know very little about trades or todays construction, or perhaps you are a Dragonfli Feb 2012 #154

Most that try it lack either the talent (it takes the talent of an artist you know) or the physical Dragonfli Feb 2012 #153

So how many people kctim Feb 2012 #218

So basically your argument is people will pay the doctors exorbitantly because of a death threat? Dragonfli Feb 2012 #229

Aw kctim Feb 2012 #233

You can have the bricklayer perform your next surgery... SidDithers Feb 2012 #5

Nurse, hand me that trowel pintobean Feb 2012 #20

That works both ways MichaelMcGuire Feb 2012 #44

When was the last time you needed an EMERGENCY home built?? JoePhilly Feb 2012 #125

LOL true nt MichaelMcGuire Feb 2012 #152

Emergency repairs are quite common, but being the expert you are, you know all about that. Dragonfli Feb 2012 #157

You still have it backwards. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #163

No I compared it to a homeowner that failed to maintain his home assume the bricks were perfect when Dragonfli Feb 2012 #170

What is "frustrating" is you claiming I said things that I did not say. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #186

what about sorefeet Feb 2012 #236

Pay should be tied to years of training combined with a valuation of skill/talent displayed Dragonfli Feb 2012 #173

Only problem.... Fastcars Feb 2012 #223

My sister is opting out of open heart surgery right now, she can't get the funding Dragonfli Feb 2012 #226

Emergency repairs aren't performed by unskilled workers, and hence are expensive. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2012 #199

The whole point of this OP is that they are not "well paid". Not all of these skilled tradespeople Dragonfli Feb 2012 #203

I'm afraid I think that most of the facts you cite are inaccurate Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2012 #211

I have worked in three trades for all my life, This is not the UK (35 year career) Dragonfli Feb 2012 #224

Surgeons are paid more because there are fewer of them AngryAmish Feb 2012 #6

I have found that the highest barrier to being a surgeon is family money. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #23

Nope. Loans all the way for us. mainer Feb 2012 #35

Generally I find very few doctors that do not come from good families though. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #40

well, I'm the daughter of a cook mainer Feb 2012 #49

What is a good family? What does that even mean? MineralMan Feb 2012 #53

I've found that those "American Dream" yarns to not be the norm though. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #57

Is that what you've found? MineralMan Feb 2012 #58

Actually I do. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #61

In my medical school, there were quite a few from blue-collar families mainer Feb 2012 #65

Huh? Yo_Mama Feb 2012 #191

The AMA is a union which controls the supply of doctors. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2012 #71

The AMA is nothing but a shill for the pharmaceutical companies anymore. hunter Feb 2012 #90

One of my best friends is a primacy care physician. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #124

Exactly! It's barriers to entry. Jim Lane Feb 2012 #200

Part of it is the responsibility for a human life. MineralMan Feb 2012 #7

OOOh, look at you too high and mighty to use a self-taught surgeon AngryAmish Feb 2012 #18

I apologize profusely to all self-taught surgeons. MineralMan Feb 2012 #22

lolz JNelson6563 Feb 2012 #107

I worked in construction when I was growing up ... my dad taught me ... JoePhilly Feb 2012 #129

Thanks. I learned a lot of things from my father, too. MineralMan Feb 2012 #172

Wow. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #195

You ought to see my patio. Ron Green Feb 2012 #8

surgeons do not work fewer than 5 days a week mainer Feb 2012 #9

+1 JoePhilly Feb 2012 #130

Maybe because med school cost more than masonry training. eom tawadi Feb 2012 #10

This is not a good example to make the point cthulu2016 Feb 2012 #11

Perhaps you are right. I just think the spread is ridiculous. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #24

Oh, wait. Did you leave out the sarcasm thingy? mainer Feb 2012 #13

doctors average 105.00 per hour madrchsod Feb 2012 #14

not sure what you're after, but I'll answer in straightforward fashion DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2012 #16

I'm just pondering how blue collar labor is minimized. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #30

With the ease of a right wink think tank ... apparently... sadly....on a Democratic site Dragonfli Feb 2012 #158

I spend time on various computer hardware forums and tech websites MicaelS Feb 2012 #232

I've known some do-it-yourself types who could lay bricks. Recovered Repug Feb 2012 #27

Thinking again, you might want a bricklayer to do MineralMan Feb 2012 #28

Scarcity. There are a lot more people capable of laying bricks than performing surgery. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2012 #29

Part of that is control of the supply bu the US Medical establishment ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2012 #72

“Dammit Jim, I’m a doctor not a bricklayer!” cthulu2016 Feb 2012 #32

because most people would rather have a broken wall than be dead. Warren DeMontague Feb 2012 #33

I'm sure there are pintobean Feb 2012 #34

Good point about the hours. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #37

I agree that brick layers should be better compensated BUT dana_b Feb 2012 #48

When you say "making some money" what kind of figures are we talking about? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #51

Bricklayers are paid by contractors and homeowners, aren't they? mainer Feb 2012 #56

Sounds like a race to the bottom to me. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #63

So pay your bricklayer more. mainer Feb 2012 #69

You are confusing bricklayers with gardeners Dragonfli Feb 2012 #159

Got some facts wrong there. Ms. Toad Feb 2012 #52

The career is changing mainer Feb 2012 #54

What does sex ratio have to do with Surgeon vs. Brick Layer? Neoma Feb 2012 #204

I'm addressing the stereotype of the evil rich white male doctor mainer Feb 2012 #207

How long does it take to learn how to butter a brick? badtoworse Feb 2012 #55

About the same amount of time it takes to learn how to put in a stitch. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2012 #75

Oh right. It's just like sewing a dress. mainer Feb 2012 #82

You make it sound like cleaning fish badtoworse Feb 2012 #104

Because a brinklayer never saved my life or saved me from being crippled the rest of my life. sarge43 Feb 2012 #68

My point is that blue collar workers should be paid A LOT more not that Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #76

Agree that blue collar workers are getting the shaft and are not being paid what they deserve. sarge43 Feb 2012 #92

Never never never said that surgeons are paid too much. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #106

In so many words, no you didn't, but you implied as much sarge43 Feb 2012 #135

And you saw something wrong with that. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #141

Male bovine fecal material sarge43 Feb 2012 #146

Check out Dragonfli's and nadinbrzynski's(sp?) posts and you will get it. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #209

*Skilled* manual labourers *are* paid a lot. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2012 #197

Our society values philosophers more than plumbers? white_wolf Feb 2012 #88

I believe I wrote "A society ..." n/t sarge43 Feb 2012 #93

Good plumbing has probably saved more lives than good surgeons. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2012 #91

Good point. For more people, that's probably true. sarge43 Feb 2012 #97

+1 n/t lumberjack_jeff Feb 2012 #162

And why do surgery centers get paid more than surgeons? Blue_In_AK Feb 2012 #74

The machinery of corneal transplant surgery is more important to the procedure. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2012 #79

Well, that's comforting. Blue_In_AK Feb 2012 #83

I'm saying that a machine is a machine. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2012 #161

why are bricklayers paid more than pizza delivery guys? spanone Feb 2012 #77

Why Do NBA PLayers Get Paid More The Social Workers? zorahopkins Feb 2012 #78

Another great question. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #80

Surgeons study for over decade savalez Feb 2012 #86

The lifestyle of surgeons is so brutal that only COLGATE4 Feb 2012 #87

Why does the Govt pay more to the killers of poor people raouldukelives Feb 2012 #89

My, my, aren't there a lot of jackasses in this thread! izquierdista Feb 2012 #94

What?? I don't know any surgeon that works less than a 60-70 hour week... tjwash Feb 2012 #95

I agree that manual laborers are underpaid and under appreciated. white_wolf Feb 2012 #96

I find that when folks post these kind of hypotheticals TBF Feb 2012 #98

Most surgeons would be kick-ass brick layers. hunter Feb 2012 #99

bargaining power killbotfactory Feb 2012 #100

Manual labour's horribly underpaid, but I'm not too offended at surgeons' pay. (nt) Posteritatis Feb 2012 #101

I appreciate the sentiment behind your post... w8liftinglady Feb 2012 #103

Would you pay 30% above the going rate for a house, Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #105

Absolutely if it was well built. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #110

Ummm ... When was the last time you needed an EMERGENCY BRICK LAYER???? JoePhilly Feb 2012 #108

You missed the point entirely. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #111

As I read more of the responses ... its clear that very few "got your point". nt JoePhilly Feb 2012 #115

Nope. Your father probably would have, but not you apparently. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #116

He knew a brick layer was never going to save your life. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #117

I'm sure your father would have liked to have been better compensated for his work. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #118

Everyone in this thread seems to be telling you the same thing. Kurska Feb 2012 #119

Thank you. n/t sarge43 Feb 2012 #140

excellent point Incitatus Feb 2012 #151

Obligatory Star Trek quote... slackmaster Feb 2012 #122

Your President does too dipsydoodle Feb 2012 #109

A lot of surgeons don't have good hours. backscatter712 Feb 2012 #112

A surgeon saved my life twice - don't emilyg Feb 2012 #113

Becoming a surgeon requires years of specialized education and training, and lots of money up front slackmaster Feb 2012 #120

That is true. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #127

On this we agree slackmaster Feb 2012 #142

I can't believe people are rec' ing this! Are you kidding me? Quantess Feb 2012 #128

That is not the point at all. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #131

I read your OP and I don't think I missed anything. Quantess Feb 2012 #138

Your last line got it. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #210

Surgeons have the ability to kill people if they don't do their jobs correctly. Avalux Feb 2012 #132

because the input cost of obtaining an MD and successfully making it through residency is unbelievab Obama3_16 Feb 2012 #133

I am able to lay bricks. I have also laid real hardwood floors. Vinca Feb 2012 #134

Because their output is more valuable. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2012 #137

the medical profession CAUSES 225,000 deaths a year. provis99 Feb 2012 #143

Using that logic, Christmas cards cause Christmas. nt Dreamer Tatum Feb 2012 #145

you need to read on the definition of logic. provis99 Feb 2012 #147

definitely don't go to a surgeon for your next operation mainer Feb 2012 #176

I have laid bricks. SA, I would be happy to do any surgeries you might need... renie408 Feb 2012 #144

Time invested in training and ability to do the task... JSnuffy Feb 2012 #149

Something called supply and demand. Incitatus Feb 2012 #150

What is the source of your information about surgeons? You/your comparison are quite WRONG! Carolina Feb 2012 #155

You are going about it the wrong way nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #160

Congratulations. You absolutely nailed it. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #168

Finally an adequate answer, the poster IMO was not putting down MD's so much as supporting brickies Dragonfli Feb 2012 #169

Putting "down" the trades nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #179

BULLSEYE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #208

Forbidding doctors from working more than 40 hours a week would cause hospitals serious problems. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2012 #212

When the state of new York cut resident's Shift hours from 36 to 24 nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #221

How much does that bricklayer pay for malpractice insurance every year? WillowTree Feb 2012 #167

Supply and Demand is the answer to most questions that involve "how much we pay" Egalitariat Feb 2012 #171

Another conundrum mainer Feb 2012 #177

Speak for yourself. I don't put less value on manual labor. gulliver Feb 2012 #178

Why do airline pilots make less than managers at McDonald's? mmonk Feb 2012 #180

Because the pilot doesn't have our lives in his hands? Little Star Feb 2012 #231

Frightening, isn't it? mmonk Feb 2012 #235

This is a joke question, right? You seriously don't know? Here's your answer: Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #181

you could have easily been a bricklayer except you couldn't? pitohui Feb 2012 #185

Okay, so communication isn't your strong suit. Here's a restatement, Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #190

Exactly alcibiades_mystery Feb 2012 #202

It's all about supply and demand FreeJoe Feb 2012 #183

because of class hate pitohui Feb 2012 #184

Don't know how to break this to you, but surgeons certainly do work with their hands. WillowTree Feb 2012 #194

Surgeons have been saving lives since the 14th century... SidDithers Feb 2012 #217

Go through 12-16 years of grueling education coming out with over $200,000 in debt fujiyama Feb 2012 #187

You're going to start your career with a chunkload of debt Yo_Mama Feb 2012 #189

Slightly different question: How much more should a surgeon make than a brick layer? limpyhobbler Feb 2012 #192

For the same reason ball players are paid more than surgeons. yellowcanine Feb 2012 #193

So much foolishness, I don't know where to begin. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2012 #196

Good to see someone giv'n this thread the bidness! lonestarnot Feb 2012 #198

Sanity at last. Johnny Rico Feb 2012 #201

Are bricklayers paid more than doctors anywhere in the world? mainer Feb 2012 #205

I believe they used to make the same salaries in Cuba until a few years ago slackmaster Feb 2012 #225

I believe manual labor is merely but part and parcel of the total of value. LanternWaste Feb 2012 #213

My dad was a brickie Boudica the Lyoness Feb 2012 #220

Increasingly, the American labor force is becoming more and more specialized... YoungDemCA Feb 2012 #222

Another great point. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #228

Because a brick layer can't cliffordu Feb 2012 #227

It's all relative... kentuck Feb 2012 #230

This is easy. STATE LICENSING ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2012 #234