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The Straight Story

(48,121 posts)

104. If America was a church and we reported sins that might work

Tue Apr 30, 2013, 05:10 PM

Apr 2013

But we are a society that has a level of doubt on charges - ie, there needs to be evidence.

The cops can still arrest someone over basically anything they want, but unless that person is found guilty it should not be something we use against them in any way.

And I have been a cop and seen domestic abuse. Including a guy who pulled a shotgun on his wife, she grabbed the barrel to pull it away from him and it went off and blew her face off. Both were drunk.

Can we change some things? Yep - but removing basic rights of people is not solving a problem it is creating more of them.

Increase funding, education, etc from our courts to our cops to the ATF etc so that we have the needed people and resources to do the job of enforcing the laws.

And while a call could trigger something (it does, a police response and report) that does not mean that trigger should have consequences unless a person is found guilty of having done something.

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I hear people on DU say those with CWP rarely use their guns to shoot others [View all] Generic Other Apr 2013 OP

DV calls are not convictions The Straight Story Apr 2013 #1

Three DV accusations from three different sources equals a history to me conviction or no Generic Other Apr 2013 #2

What says it all is: The Straight Story Apr 2013 #3

+1 (nt) NYC_SKP Apr 2013 #4

your only contribution to this thread is concern for the murderer CreekDog Apr 2013 #64

I'm sure the families of the 4 victims will find comfort in the fact that their murderer geek tragedy Apr 2013 #11

As all surviving friends and family should! AndyA Apr 2013 #59

Your talk of rights presents a false dichotomy Threedifferentones Apr 2013 #63

NRA talking points AndyA Apr 2013 #91

You say my interpretation of your post is inaccurate, then you repeat my interpretation of your post Threedifferentones Apr 2013 #113

From a survivors point of view, my feelings are not exaggerated AndyA May 2013 #149

Your posts are not that opaque. You repeated my interpretation yourself. Threedifferentones May 2013 #197

And you sound like a murder facilitator. 99Forever Apr 2013 #86

My fetish? I don't own one. The Straight Story Apr 2013 #87

Oh please. 99Forever Apr 2013 #90

Hah - well, let me tell you a little secret The Straight Story Apr 2013 #92

And yet you don't seem to care about the rights of... Walk away May 2013 #181

Nice. 99Forever May 2013 #199

There was no proof he was violent before The Straight Story May 2013 #212

Who the fuck said ANYTHING about lynching him? 99Forever May 2013 #213

LYNCHMOB????? Generic Other Apr 2013 #95

To answer you The Straight Story Apr 2013 #100

He was a juvenile when he started abusing women Generic Other Apr 2013 #106

I didn't say I believed he was or he was not The Straight Story Apr 2013 #110

Not my daughter, but feel free to terrorize everyone else's daughters? Generic Other Apr 2013 #114

Who said anything about a right to be violent? The Straight Story Apr 2013 #117

Carrying a concealed gun around other people is an inherently violent act Starboard Tack May 2013 #185

Yes, that's right. That's why it is important for us to do nothing. Will that make you feel better? CTyankee Apr 2013 #9

Nice. Who said that? Oh...you did. Not me The Straight Story Apr 2013 #72

don't blame me about the lack of funding for ATF. Lay it squarely at the feet of CTyankee Apr 2013 #79

Well we find something to agree on The Straight Story Apr 2013 #80

I will believe their commitment when I see it. Here's a thought for them: CTyankee Apr 2013 #83

i hate that gun owner, i'm sorry you don't CreekDog Apr 2013 #62

What has that got to do with the actual conversation here? The Straight Story Apr 2013 #71

I used to help women make third party police reports after they had been raped Generic Other Apr 2013 #101

If America was a church and we reported sins that might work The Straight Story Apr 2013 #104

Again, do you want your daughter to date a person accused of being a violent rapist? Generic Other Apr 2013 #111

And again The Straight Story Apr 2013 #116

Bet you think OJ Simpson was innocent too Generic Other Apr 2013 #121

Once more - it does matter what I think The Straight Story Apr 2013 #126

I would not let my daughter date OJ Simpson Generic Other May 2013 #170

And what about these: The Straight Story Apr 2013 #130

Did you type that without thinking about it Newest Reality May 2013 #151

We are talking about a guy who had three previous accusations of DV Generic Other May 2013 #163

Was that a response to me? Newest Reality May 2013 #169

Excuse me you are the one who butted into my conversation with The Straight Story Generic Other May 2013 #171

Oh, Newest Reality May 2013 #172

Like I said happy to include you Generic Other May 2013 #175

Thanks so much! Newest Reality May 2013 #178

Well, he damned sure wasn't innocent of the armed robbery premium May 2013 #179

I didn't know he did that!! Generic Other May 2013 #187

Yep. premium May 2013 #189

Oh sorry I misunderstood Generic Other May 2013 #196

But...but...but... Aristus Apr 2013 #5

His presumption of innocence dictates he not be sanctioned without a conviction. TheKentuckian Apr 2013 #6

Precisely. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #7

therefore, it follows logically that since that may be true, it makes it right to ignore dv and CTyankee Apr 2013 #10

No - the solution is to aggressively prosecute domestic violence hack89 Apr 2013 #15

well, that's ONE thing we should be doing....but surely not the only thing... CTyankee Apr 2013 #18

You cannot restrict a constitutional right without due process hack89 Apr 2013 #21

we have a "time, place and manner" exception to certain first amendment rights. CTyankee Apr 2013 #25

But to completely remove someone's 1st amendment rights hack89 Apr 2013 #28

Well, IMO, it is a "reasonable restriction" to assure people of their right not to be CTyankee Apr 2013 #30

By that logic, any and all constitutional rights can be severely restricted. hack89 Apr 2013 #34

Sane public safety. Please, do I HAVE to explain this elementary idea to you... CTyankee Apr 2013 #46

So you do support stop and frisk? Unlimited search and seizure? hack89 Apr 2013 #48

OF COURSE, I have a problem with the 2nd A. in the way this Supreme Court CTyankee Apr 2013 #53

No - I just passionately support due process. hack89 Apr 2013 #54

Well, what can be done should be done IMO. CTyankee Apr 2013 #67

Do what every you must within the constraints of due process. hack89 Apr 2013 #74

the right to join a militia? ... eom Kolesar Apr 2013 #33

Or the right to self defense in the home with a handgun. hack89 Apr 2013 #37

I believe three accusations from different women (clearly afraid to press charges) Generic Other Apr 2013 #94

Accusations do not equal guilt. That is why we have courts and judges. nt hack89 Apr 2013 #102

Again I ask, are you going to let him date your daughter? Generic Other Apr 2013 #112

Are you saying they never deny or revoke permits over multiple allegations? Generic Other Apr 2013 #123

A tempory revocation is fine. hack89 Apr 2013 #127

Allegations of child abuse trigger action by CPS Generic Other May 2013 #174

He should have been investigated. hack89 May 2013 #180

He is as innocent as OJ Simpson Generic Other May 2013 #182

He is innocent in the eyes of the law. We are a nation of laws. hack89 May 2013 #184

we've disagreed a fair bit in the past, but I'm with you 100% on this 0rganism Apr 2013 #52

Actually, there's nothing remotely logical about that progression. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #22

Then, what is YOUR plan? CTyankee Apr 2013 #31

A couple ideas: Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #68

then you should get busy and work to get these things accomplished. CTyankee Apr 2013 #70

A CWP is not a right it is a privilege. Warren Stupidity May 2013 #135

Perhaps - but that person can still own guns hack89 May 2013 #136

"some here are saying" - that his CWP shouldn't have been revoked. Warren Stupidity May 2013 #161

Lets look closer at the OP, shall we? hack89 May 2013 #165

I didn't respond to the op. I responded to assertions that due process and in fact a conviction Warren Stupidity May 2013 #191

I am not sure about WA law, sarisataka Apr 2013 #8

that sounds like a good solution. I'm glad SOME people are not just giving up but trying to CTyankee Apr 2013 #13

I truly believe sarisataka Apr 2013 #27

This is the problem with treating ownership of a deadly weapon as a fundamental right. geek tragedy Apr 2013 #12

Exactly the case. It is the shame of America... CTyankee Apr 2013 #14

It is America. The love of violence is a distinctly American vice. geek tragedy Apr 2013 #16

And it is only getting worse... CTyankee Apr 2013 #19

No it is not getting worse hack89 Apr 2013 #24

Oh,yes..."you were never safer" right? CTyankee Apr 2013 #26

Care to address the actual crime statistics? hack89 Apr 2013 #29

YOUR crime "statistics"? Surely you jest.. CTyankee Apr 2013 #36

No - the FBI's and DOJ's crime statistics hack89 Apr 2013 #40

YOUR "version? please... CTyankee Apr 2013 #43

No - the official version on the FBI web site (I sent you the link). nt hack89 Apr 2013 #45

To lump all violent crimes with gun deaths mikeysnot Apr 2013 #47

Guns deaths are at a historic low as well. hack89 Apr 2013 #50

So guns are the problem mikeysnot Apr 2013 #55

It is not complicated - it just takes some time and real interest on your part. hack89 Apr 2013 #58

That must be one of those NRA Bay Boy Apr 2013 #60

thank you for this mikeysnot Apr 2013 #61

I would reduce suicide first hack89 Apr 2013 #65

I would like a psych test for all gun owners mikeysnot Apr 2013 #81

And I would like free beer and chocolate. hack89 Apr 2013 #89

You are assuming? mikeysnot Apr 2013 #96

So these psych evals will be free? hack89 Apr 2013 #103

"free mental health care just for gun owners - that will be a big hit with the public. " mikeysnot Apr 2013 #119

"Deal with it"? Deal with what - your personal fantasy ? hack89 Apr 2013 #124

You sounds very troubled. mikeysnot May 2013 #152

Troubled about what? hack89 May 2013 #157

It is not about disagreeing mikeysnot May 2013 #159

There aren't enough psychiatrist & psychologists in the U.S. to give that many tests. GreenStormCloud Apr 2013 #115

Sounds like you know you would fail. mikeysnot Apr 2013 #120

I have already passed multiple FBI background checks. GreenStormCloud May 2013 #132

For some reason I believe mikeysnot May 2013 #154

Probably be much the same. GreenStormCloud May 2013 #166

FYI this guy passed an FBI background check mikeysnot May 2013 #193

Nothing is 100%. GreenStormCloud May 2013 #198

Oh, I am so DONE with even bothering to debate the gunners on their deceiving charts. CTyankee Apr 2013 #82

Actaully I like bad movies! mikeysnot Apr 2013 #97

"deceiving charts" = facts I can't refute hack89 May 2013 #137

Yep, right on cue, heard THAT one over and over again... CTyankee May 2013 #138

You are the one denying official FBI and DOJ crime statistics hack89 May 2013 #139

"You were never safer" CTyankee May 2013 #141

16,700 gun murders in 1995, 8600 in 2011. hack89 May 2013 #142

buddy, I've already been thru all of this with another pro-gunner and seen the cherry CTyankee May 2013 #143

Those are straight from the FBI - are you saying AG Holder is cooking the books? nt hack89 May 2013 #144

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2776607 CTyankee May 2013 #146

So you have no actual facts or statistics to refute the FBI? hack89 May 2013 #147

Pay more attention next time to those who have refuted your "interpretation" of the CTyankee May 2013 #150

I didn't interpret anything - I simply presented hard numbers and statistics hack89 May 2013 #153

So show us all where you get your crime statistics from. hack89 May 2013 #145

Here, among other places CTyankee May 2013 #200

I meant hard numbers on gun violence hack89 May 2013 #201

Look, we've been thru this and I can tell you that in past discussions on these data CTyankee May 2013 #202

Hard numbers don't need to be interpreted hack89 May 2013 #203

well, then, gun control works! CTyankee May 2013 #204

So you view the past 20 years as an era of increased gun control? hack89 May 2013 #205

Oh, from your "perspective." I see. Kinda like "interpretation." CTyankee May 2013 #206

I am just asking for you to at least acknowledge reality hack89 May 2013 #207

Evidently you do. And what personal attack is saying you stand with the NRA? CTyankee May 2013 #208

I support every gun control proposal the president wants hack89 May 2013 #209

I dunno. You seemed a little hurt. CTyankee May 2013 #210

I understand just fine. They don't support your view of gun violence hack89 May 2013 #211

Just imagine how nice it would be to be more like mikeysnot May 2013 #155

I agree that mental health reform and suicide prevention should be a national priority hack89 May 2013 #158

It would save more lives than any gun control legislation ever could. mikeysnot May 2013 #160

Actually, Israel's suicide rate has remained pretty consistent over time hack89 May 2013 #164

Here you go.... mikeysnot May 2013 #167

So how do we take away access to guns like the Israeli army did? hack89 May 2013 #176

Well what ever I propose mikeysnot May 2013 #192

Some of your proposals may work, other perhaps not hack89 May 2013 #194

I will just start with mikeysnot May 2013 #195

Gun suicides are a problem. My cousin killed himself Jennicut Apr 2013 #69

There is a theory that mass shootings are another form of suicide hack89 Apr 2013 #75

So... Pelican Apr 2013 #32

old... CTyankee Apr 2013 #38

I see that you are new. That must explain it. CTyankee Apr 2013 #88

Are you disputing that comment? Bay Boy Apr 2013 #35

lame... CTyankee Apr 2013 #39

That doesn't help move Bay Boy Apr 2013 #44

I will say this once and I will not say it again. I have seen those arguments. CTyankee Apr 2013 #51

In this case, as is the case in a good chunk of other shootings by CCW permittees... krispos42 Apr 2013 #17

umm loyalsister Apr 2013 #23

No argument there. krispos42 Apr 2013 #66

except... loyalsister Apr 2013 #76

Entirely true... krispos42 Apr 2013 #85

They knew at the time that he had some DV accusations loyalsister Apr 2013 #98

Don't you tire of your shameful apologia? morningfog Apr 2013 #108

Sorry if facts keep interfering with what you'd like to believe. krispos42 Apr 2013 #125

It's always something. morningfog Apr 2013 #128

I would like to see Ma gun laws implemented across the whole country Marrah_G Apr 2013 #20

Oh great... Bay Boy Apr 2013 #41

NRA supports felons with guns sigmasix Apr 2013 #42

You nailed it. Fiefdoms like Belle Isle, Independence Park, the Citadel, to name a few of them. freshwest Apr 2013 #77

Link to petition, I live in WA marlakay Apr 2013 #49

This is where I saw that info Generic Other Apr 2013 #122

Yep, plenty of examples. Heck, NRA Prez's son was convicted of shooting an unarmed motorist. Hoyt Apr 2013 #56

They will also tell you that people with conceal carry permit don't have tempers liberal N proud Apr 2013 #57

No joke. There are folks right here that say they are better behaved with a gun in their pants. Hoyt Apr 2013 #73

Actually, I'm probably one of them. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #84

Sad that it takes a gun to help you act decently. It also shows you have a temper, which does not Hoyt Apr 2013 #93

FFS, did you even READ what I wrote? Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #99

You stuck your gun into conversation using gun lore about how a gun made you behave better. Hoyt Apr 2013 #107

Into a conversation about guns...imagine that! Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #109

Perhaps you should review some statistics on the matter. GreenStormCloud May 2013 #133

I can take cover from lightning and reduce that risk liberal N proud May 2013 #134

Let's take a look at them. GreenStormCloud May 2013 #156

That line is so full of crap, it stinks! liberal N proud May 2013 #173

Are you aware that "rarely" is not synonymous with "never"? 11 Bravo Apr 2013 #78

Yes Generic Other May 2013 #186

Most of the pro-gun people here support background checks. GreenStormCloud May 2013 #188

Here in Kansas our Republican legislature amended our tblue37 Apr 2013 #105

... Neoma Apr 2013 #118

Not to be pedantic, but... sylvi Apr 2013 #129

IOW, its more of a confirmation... Pelican May 2013 #140

I was thinking the same thing Silent3 May 2013 #148

CWP johnwarde Apr 2013 #131

Some people smoke a pack a day on never get lung cancer. nt. Warren Stupidity May 2013 #162

It is extremely rare for a CCWer to illegally shoot anyone. GreenStormCloud May 2013 #168

I am very glad to hear that Generic Other May 2013 #183

Oh look another irrelevant gunner argument. Warren Stupidity May 2013 #190

I am not advocating taking your permit from you Generic Other May 2013 #177