General Discussion

LadyHawkAZ

(6,199 posts)

139. I know. Their motives were different than mine.

Tue Apr 30, 2013, 10:45 PM

Apr 2013

From my POV: if I'm a businessperson, and someone walks in with their face covered and wants to make a purchase with a credit card, or enters my bank with their features unidentifiable, or anything along those lines, I'm going to ask them to remove it or leave. If I cannot verify that you are the cardholder, I will refuse your card purchase. If your face cannot be seen and identified on a camera, I don't want you in my bank. I would do this with a ski mask or motorcycle helmet as well. That's a safety issue. This is only a problem with a burqa or niqab that covers the entire face, and not a problem with a hijab which leaves the face visible (I thought France had banned these too, but apparently I was wrong).

I'm in full sympathy with France's motives, but I don't think this is the best way to go about it. Time and education is the way to stamp out religion; it can't be done with a ban and it will never happen overnight.

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Highlight:

This Is What Saudi Arabia's First PSA For Violence Against Women Looks Like [View all] The Straight Story Apr 2013 OP

Yeah, but her fucking head still can. Sheesh, what bad taste! kysrsoze Apr 2013 #1

+1 get the red out Apr 2013 #4

yep. I find that ad pretty offensive too. Matariki Apr 2013 #9

i know, the twisted irony here is amazing arely staircase Apr 2013 #13

right, because a veil is so much worse BainsBane Apr 2013 #21

An elegant illustration of a false dichotomy. nt Bonobo Apr 2013 #29

FYI BainsBane Apr 2013 #31

Some people will defend their religion to the end. Bonobo Apr 2013 #32

Yikes BainsBane Apr 2013 #34

I read it. nt Bonobo Apr 2013 #36

You would have left Indian women burning on funeral pyres. Gotcha. nt Bonobo Apr 2013 #37

We've been through this example before BainsBane Apr 2013 #40

It's really hopeless. Bonobo Apr 2013 #42

Actually after countless conversations BainsBane Apr 2013 #44

That sounded like mainsplaining to me. Bonobo Apr 2013 #45

What I told you BainsBane Apr 2013 #123

Where would you want your daughter to grow up, St. Louis or Riyadh? snooper2 Apr 2013 #55

What does that have to do with this discussion in any way? BainsBane Apr 2013 #64

America is not responsible for all the World's ills snooper2 Apr 2013 #66

America is responsible for war in Iraq, Afghanistan, BainsBane Apr 2013 #116

The OP is ultimately about misogyny in Saudi Arabia snooper2 May 2013 #164

right BainsBane May 2013 #168

Excellent post. n/t ronnie624 May 2013 #153

most excellent! snooper2 May 2013 #171

same old shit, I see RainDog Apr 2013 #38

The culturally imperialist attitude toward Islam is influence by neoconcervativsm BainsBane Apr 2013 #39

Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot came to prominence because they were treated as deities. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #43

The cult of personality is not religious BainsBane Apr 2013 #46

actually sabbat hunter Apr 2013 #79

There was no cult of personality around Pol Pot. tralala Apr 2013 #87

When calling us bigots doesn't work, call us chickenhawks. Got it. n/t backscatter712 Apr 2013 #53

I knew about Muslim hatred of women long before the wars get the red out Apr 2013 #62

Muslim hatred of women? BainsBane Apr 2013 #65

The reality of how they are treated isn't a stereotype get the red out Apr 2013 #67

You obviously couldn't be bothered to read the articles, or even their titles BainsBane Apr 2013 #73

Yep, a guy being a sexist ass here = a fucking honor killing get the red out Apr 2013 #76

Just read the articles BainsBane Apr 2013 #93

No BainsBane, HUMAN RIGHTS don't get a 'cultural' pass Matariki Apr 2013 #81

Education is an imperialist plot too, I suppose RainDog Apr 2013 #85

No no, education is a dirty word BainsBane Apr 2013 #96

Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #98

Where did I say that? BainsBane Apr 2013 #94

No, you clearly implied that Raindog "doesn't care about murder" unless it is done by a religion. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #109

And that Raindog considers genocide as no problem at all. riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #112

By The Way... Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #115

I actually figured it was going to get hid! Amazing. A shout out to DUers! riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #119

She specifically said religion is the source of oppression and misogyny BainsBane Apr 2013 #125

Making a criticism of one thing does not intrinsically imply "not caring" about another. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #127

I don't think people love war BainsBane Apr 2013 #132

Okay, let's go through this slowly. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #152

. . . BainsBane May 2013 #157

...what are you talking about? Warren DeMontague May 2013 #158

It's obviously pointless to try to engage in a serious discussion with you BainsBane May 2013 #160

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane May 2013 #161

Okay, again, point by point. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #175

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane May 2013 #176

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2013 #177

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane May 2013 #183

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2013 #185

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane May 2013 #179

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2013 #181

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane May 2013 #182

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2013 #184

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane May 2013 #186

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2013 #187

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane May 2013 #188

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2013 #189

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane May 2013 #190

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague May 2013 #191

Drone strikes BainsBane May 2013 #159

The best post on DU in years, Warren. Well done. opiate69 May 2013 #166

How about them Vikes BainsBane May 2013 #170

Being in the North West, I'm more of a Seahawks guy. opiate69 May 2013 #172

Well...it is a dogs life... opiate69 May 2013 #178

I do love dogs BainsBane May 2013 #180

Your arguments are dishonest RainDog Apr 2013 #83

The extent of that persons integrity deficiency is breathtaking. opiate69 Apr 2013 #84

Yeah. She does the same thing that seabeyond did RainDog Apr 2013 #86

Back on DU2, I used to spend most of my time in thr religion group... opiate69 Apr 2013 #88

And she goes to her protected group RainDog Apr 2013 #89

Yep yep... opiate69 Apr 2013 #92

Here is where you referred to Muslims as superstitious BainsBane Apr 2013 #103

I'm not sure whether to be flattered or creeped out BainsBane Apr 2013 #100

What did you do, make another sock so you could see my posts? opiate69 May 2013 #148

Nope, just cleared out my ignore list. BainsBane May 2013 #149

This message was self-deleted by its author pacalo May 2013 #154

Yeah, don't actually read what I say BainsBane Apr 2013 #95

Irony alert! Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #106

I know what people write BainsBane Apr 2013 #99

Are you drunk!? Raindog has been one of the MOST compassionate DU posters riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #101

Then provide evidence BainsBane Apr 2013 #102

How do you know Raindog has "steadfastly refused" to consider what Muslim women write? riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #104

I answered that in another post BainsBane Apr 2013 #108

Now you're just spamming the thread with repeated lies about DUers riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #110

Spaming with voices of Muslim women BainsBane Apr 2013 #113

Another lie. I said you are spamming your LIES, not your links. riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #114

see post 67 BainsBane Apr 2013 #118

As a feminist who has no reservations about lecturing others about what they deem as "sexist", pacalo May 2013 #155

Yes, I have acknowledged my failure BainsBane May 2013 #162

I'm sorry that you are not clairvoyant or possess superpower abilities. pacalo May 2013 #163

When a thread is locked BainsBane May 2013 #167

It wasn't locked at the time! pacalo May 2013 #192

it was locked BainsBane May 2013 #193

"How 'bout them Vikes?" pacalo May 2013 #194

How we had refused to considered what Muslim women write BainsBane Apr 2013 #105

So because Raindog didn't agree with you, you decide to make shit up. You did. riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #107

Well this is a US discussion board BainsBane Apr 2013 #111

Lol, this is child's play and you aren't worth getting angry over! riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #117

Really? BainsBane Apr 2013 #120

She visited the United Arab Emerates and met women from across the Middle East. LiberalAndProud Apr 2013 #121

Are you referring to the article I cited? BainsBane Apr 2013 #122

I started to read the second article in your list. LiberalAndProud Apr 2013 #128

Your views are understandable BainsBane Apr 2013 #133

Well that is your best post in the whole thread we agree on some things: The Straight Story Apr 2013 #137

I have made that point many times in this thread BainsBane Apr 2013 #138

How do we have any hope of aiding their cause? LiberalAndProud May 2013 #146

Good question BainsBane May 2013 #147

+ 1,000,000. Spot on and stellar, RainDog. Zorra Apr 2013 #141

Oddly enough, these "blankets over the head" and "beekeeper suits" are not prescribed in the Qu'ran. MADem May 2013 #196

they are both part of the same sick dynamic. KittyWampus Apr 2013 #72

Nobody is saying that. jaded_old_cynic May 2013 #195

Oh you are supposed to be "respectful" of the culture and religious beliefs snooper2 Apr 2013 #54

Well I know this is radical BainsBane Apr 2013 #97

Can't wear. Not "isn't". Can't. LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #124

No, I wasn't saying that BainsBane Apr 2013 #126

And again, here you are just making stuff up out of thin air about DU members. Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #129

As fascinating as you may find conversations about other members BainsBane Apr 2013 #135

Is that supposed to be ironic? Post-modern? Warren DeMontague Apr 2013 #144

And yet you chose to respond to this rather than the response BainsBane Apr 2013 #145

Pickin' the low hanging fruit Warren DeMontague May 2013 #150

Pay attention to, sure. LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #130

I couldn't disagree more BainsBane Apr 2013 #134

I know. Their motives were different than mine. LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #139

Headscarves do not restrict identification BainsBane Apr 2013 #142

That stance assumes that all women in the Muslim world want the same thing. antigone382 Apr 2013 #136

They didn't have to bomb Salt Lake LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #140

Um, I really hate to point this out, but Occulus Apr 2013 #60

Direct and Honest grilled onions Apr 2013 #2

According to some on DU, any comment we make on this is Imperialist and NeoColonialst. stevenleser Apr 2013 #3

I like to refer to those people as "misogynists." Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #5

They would insist that they are the only true feminists here. stevenleser Apr 2013 #7

I suspect so. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2013 #12

Nope, it doesn't, and you are right, that is exactly the point stevenleser Apr 2013 #17

How would you give them this "freedom" and how would you know that you've given it to them? n/t Turborama Apr 2013 #48

How would YOU do it? nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #52

It's YOUR proposal, not mine. n/t Turborama Apr 2013 #57

I'm not proposing anything. Its an example. nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #75

Well, technically it's a hypothesis Turborama Apr 2013 #80

It appears to mean BainsBane Apr 2013 #143

I'm not on speaking terms with one of these characters... n/t backscatter712 Apr 2013 #28

I consider myself a feminist get the red out Apr 2013 #68

LOL. Yeah, perfectly fitting description there. kysrsoze Apr 2013 #8

Correct. Years ago here, I recall making a remark closeupready Apr 2013 #10

Yeah, "Cultural Relativism" always seems to apply to woman's rights Matariki Apr 2013 #11

Absolutely get the red out Apr 2013 #69

You "cultural imperialist" you! Believing that western values about equality and women riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #74

Apparently burqas really do keep women safe LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #22

Welcome to the secret meeting of the Legion of Imperial Atheists! backscatter712 Apr 2013 #26

Asia Minor? Turborama Apr 2013 #49

Why is it we call it the "Middle East", when it's actually Southwest Asia? n/t backscatter712 Apr 2013 #51

What is "it"? n/t Turborama Apr 2013 #56

It is a region of land on the southwest of Asia. backscatter712 Apr 2013 #58

Well, I thought when Steven said "Minor Asia" he was trying to describe where Muslims live. Turborama Apr 2013 #59

I think it's a good ad. HappyMe Apr 2013 #6

Actually, yes, they can be covered eissa Apr 2013 #14

I agree Skittles Apr 2013 #27

Message abusers get "beat her body where bruises can't be seen" Yo_Mama Apr 2013 #15

I wonder if it might be a message to the abused, and not the abusers Mister Ed Apr 2013 #18

it is, the campaign is meant to try to get them to report abuse JI7 Apr 2013 #47

The problem in Saudi is that Yo_Mama Apr 2013 #61

But that's their ancient and beautiful culture! backscatter712 Apr 2013 #63

We must say instead get the red out Apr 2013 #70

And of course Yo_Mama Apr 2013 #71

Ugh, EVIL get the red out Apr 2013 #77

That was my thought too Marrah_G Apr 2013 #50

Kick nt stevenleser Apr 2013 #16

Isn't stoning considered physical violence? jazzimov Apr 2013 #19

1. That's a niqab, not a burqa. 2. The hideous IRONY of this ad! Women are FORCED to "cover up" riderinthestorm Apr 2013 #20

THANK YOU get the red out Apr 2013 #78

Exactly. Dominionist Christianity. Wahhabi Islam. SAME VILE SHIT! backscatter712 Apr 2013 #82

Okay, scratch the ad campaign because you don't approve. What's the next step? Comrade Grumpy May 2013 #197

I'll reserve judgement until we see if it has an effect LadyHawkAZ Apr 2013 #23

So, they are saying beat women where it cannot be seen through the one small slot Jamastiene Apr 2013 #24

Oh shit, the irony! Bonobo Apr 2013 #25

At that point, she'll be made to switch from the niqab to the burqa. backscatter712 Apr 2013 #30

the person who made the ad has criticized the veil as hiding abuse JI7 Apr 2013 #33

Saudi Arabia has a ways to go in this area... davidn3600 Apr 2013 #35

Man...this ad is fucked in so many different ways. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #41

This message was self-deleted by its author tralala Apr 2013 #90

Oppression. Rex Apr 2013 #91

Stupid PSA. Apophis Apr 2013 #131

This is for the Saudis -- not for us. Why we're repelled by their treatment of women, gateley May 2013 #151

It is better than not addressing it at all. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #156

If this is for Saudis, why is it in English? Why are we talking about it? tralala May 2013 #165

that's an interesting point BainsBane May 2013 #169

Ya, but there's no denying... Cali_Democrat May 2013 #173

Couldn't agree with you more. I feel suffocated when I think of it. gateley May 2013 #174