General Discussion

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)

30. Read Cadillac Desert

Reply to Gravitycollapse (Original post)

Wed May 1, 2013, 01:26 AM

May 2013

by Marc Reisner. It came out in 1986. I read it back then, and we were living in Phoenix at the time. It's a real eye-opener about all of the parts of this country that we shouldn't be living in.

I do currently live in Santa Fe, which is also a semi-desert. Before I moved here 5 years ago I gave a lot of thought to the water issue. I am certainly no expert, but I will probably not stay here for the rest of my life.

Oh, and are they still allowing people to build swimming pools in Phoenix? You can't do that here in Santa Fe, for what that's worth.

It's my opinion that the underlying problem is that so many people chose to move to the desert parts of this country, and then decided it would be perfectly okay to reproduce the life styles they had back in Ohio or Massachusetts or wherever. By 1962, when I originally moved to Tucson, the pollen counts were already well above what they'd typically be in the East, and it was a given that if you didn't have allergies before you moved there, you'd get them in a few years. Fifty years ago. So none of this is new, it's just that so many prefer to ignore the truth.

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In case people wonder why AZ has a water problem... [View all] Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 OP

Now, if they took that space, and ones like it Bennyboy Apr 2013 #1

Growing food is still incredibly water intensive. We need to let it be desert landscape. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #3

xeriscape kardonb May 2013 #28

Trying to offset the heat island with grass is not a reasonable solution. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #29

it certainly isn't cooling the air in Phoenix. CreekDog May 2013 #39

It cools the air through WATER LOSS. Scootaloo May 2013 #77

If only Arizona had more water, it would be Heaven. Jackpine Radical May 2013 #156

I hope someone in a position of responsibility is taking a hard look at this problem. CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2013 #2

Naw quakerboy May 2013 #31

You mean like what southern CA does? former9thward May 2013 #55

Yes. From Utah. Common Sense Party May 2013 #62

Probably quakerboy May 2013 #68

No, Utah definitely does not have enough, as we are a desert state, too. Common Sense Party May 2013 #69

Colorado River water is already over-alloted truebluegreen May 2013 #143

Eastern Oregon, eastern Washington and Idaho don't have any water to spare truebluegreen May 2013 #142

Do you think they have the political power to fight Arizona? quakerboy May 2013 #161

They have 3 times as many Senators as Arizona, all more interested in CYA and re-election truebluegreen May 2013 #162

Im not saying public good quakerboy May 2013 #163

At 8" or less of rainfall per year, I'd call it a high desert. A sagebrush sea.... truebluegreen May 2013 #164

The geographical definition of desert is "less than 10 inches of annual precipitation", Art_from_Ark May 2013 #166

Ah! Thank you for that... truebluegreen May 2013 #168

The only officials I know of in Arizona pennylane100 May 2013 #36

How could you forget the dopey flake. What an embarrassment that prick is. lonestarnot May 2013 #115

There isn't a problem dbackjon May 2013 #42

Your assertions contradict almost all information on the problem. Please provide some substance. Matariki May 2013 #82

Others have given good links dbackjon May 2013 #84

I'm going to mark you down as having no evidence to support your claim. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #96

Have you provided any evidence? dbackjon May 2013 #149

Golf course capital of the world too! Coyotl Apr 2013 #4

Yeah, I'm ashamed to say I enjoy the sport. Gravitycollapse Apr 2013 #6

Reclaimed water helps ChazII May 2013 #40

A golf course in AZ should be one giant sand trap KamaAina May 2013 #61

+1 Blue_Tires May 2013 #51

Grass is a green desert. The thirstiest of landscaping by far. alittlelark Apr 2013 #5

Xeriscaping would be better unless the use is for sports or recreation, however... CreekDog May 2013 #13

100 year plan = corporate bullshit. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #18

Your post is so full of errors dbackjon May 2013 #43

Phoenix gets 36% of their water from the Colorado NickB79 May 2013 #56

From your link dbackjon May 2013 #63

..... keep believing that alittlelark May 2013 #113

I have a lawn. I never water it, never use chemicals. It dries up in the summer and comes back HiPointDem May 2013 #35

In the Southwest, it's very different. JDPriestly May 2013 #140

The Great Plains were wall to wall grass truebluegreen May 2013 #144

and you've just made my point. grasses are plants designed to survive low rainfall & drought. HiPointDem May 2013 #152

Native grasses are so designed, but they won't look like lawns truebluegreen May 2013 #157

depends on where you live & what kind of grass. plenty of places where grass works just fine HiPointDem May 2013 #159

Single largest crop in the US. /nt TheMadMonk May 2013 #38

I wish you could eradicate it d_r May 2013 #59

My grass thrives just fine w/o water or fertilizer. NutmegYankee May 2013 #88

It probably helps that you live in Virginia. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #108

I don't live in Virginia. Try the Nutmeg state... NutmegYankee May 2013 #109

Ah, sorry. It probably helps that you live in Connecticut. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #110

And that would be true. NutmegYankee May 2013 #111

Connecticut, right? truebluegreen May 2013 #145

Gonna 'reply to all' here.... alittlelark May 2013 #136

+1000 n/t truebluegreen May 2013 #146

Dryland farming. eom littlemissmartypants Apr 2013 #7

Atlanta is in worse shape thelordofhell Apr 2013 #8

And most of California dbackjon May 2013 #44

K/R. NYC_SKP Apr 2013 #9

Bit of a canary in a coal mine progressoid May 2013 #10

Sorry, I think Las Vegas takes the "least sustainable" prize. KittyWampus May 2013 #11

Las Vegas learned how not to run a city from Phoenix. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #12

LV has a water problem. Phoenix does not dbackjon May 2013 #45

I'm going to mark you down as being part of the problem. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #94

And you are marked down as someone that spreads irrational fear dbackjon May 2013 #150

that's completely wrong, az and phx don't have a water problem Mosby May 2013 #14

Wow, wasn't expecting propaganda in this thread. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #17

that article is pretty thin on evidence Mosby May 2013 #20

Do you have a bit of evidence that xeriscaping has had any effect on the heat island? Gravitycollapse May 2013 #25

You really have no clue what you are talkin about dbackjon May 2013 #23

Are you joking? Bruce Babbitt helped doom this state. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #26

You ARE aware that Phoenix sits on an AQUIFER, yes? Dreamer Tatum May 2013 #37

This seals it - you are just a troll. dbackjon May 2013 #48

Do you not realize the irony of your posts in here? Gravitycollapse May 2013 #95

The only one spreading lies and propoganda in this thread dbackjon May 2013 #46

Are they still air-conditioning the outdoors? Retrograde May 2013 #24

Yes, air conditioning the outdoors is a staple of Arizona. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #27

And ranchers use 90% of AZ's agricultural water n/t Nevernose May 2013 #80

I agree. I wonder why they didn't convert that to xeriscape? LeftInTX May 2013 #15

and then there's the millions of dollars, year after year, that they throw down the NHL hole Electric Monk May 2013 #16

In the 90s, people thought anything was possible. caseymoz May 2013 #21

To be fair, the Coyotes came at a time Blue_Tires May 2013 #50

Most homes now have desert landscaping ChazII May 2013 #19

Actually, the older neighborhoods have more desert landscaping than the new ones. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #22

Again, you are wrong dbackjon May 2013 #47

not true waddirum May 2013 #71

Horse shit. Gravitycollapse May 2013 #98

Read Cadillac Desert SheilaT May 2013 #30

Swimming Pools OnlinePoker May 2013 #33

Excellent, excellent book! truebluegreen May 2013 #147

Im guessing the fact that many seem to quakerboy May 2013 #32

Same could be said of Vegas... awoke_in_2003 May 2013 #34

Future development site dbackjon May 2013 #41

That's a problem, yes...and golf courses, and lawns...but agriculture is a bigger one Spider Jerusalem May 2013 #49

The entire OP is flawed. former9thward May 2013 #52

Yup!! dbackjon May 2013 #151

In my minds eye Turbineguy May 2013 #53

GOOD JOB! You found the only patch of grass in Phoenix snooper2 May 2013 #54

Had a stopover at the Phoenix airport ten years ago and as we were landing, was indepat May 2013 #57

we had a pool in our last house. almost every house DesertFlower May 2013 #90

the Collapse documentary d_r May 2013 #58

But is it grey water irrigated??? JCMach1 May 2013 #60

Good chance, yes dbackjon May 2013 #73

i agree galileoreloaded May 2013 #64

I think every American has the right to live anywhere in the U.S. waddirum May 2013 #72

Regardless of the consequences they may bring tomorrow, today's "freedoms" LanternWaste May 2013 #160

I was at a conference in Phoenix in the middle OldHippieChick May 2013 #65

Phoenix is just about the stupidest place I've ever been. Sorry, but it's true. Matariki May 2013 #66

Glad you are gone dbackjon May 2013 #75

Phoenix: The World�s Least Sustainable City Matariki May 2013 #67

agreed! its horrible and stupid.. stay away!! galileoreloaded May 2013 #70

Another bullshit article that doesn't have a clue dbackjon May 2013 #74

Just out of curiosity can you point to links backing that up? Matariki May 2013 #76

Up thread there is a link dbackjon May 2013 #83

link Mosby May 2013 #91

Thanks for the link - looking forward to reading it. Matariki May 2013 #92

I could make a pretty good argument for Dubai JCMach1 May 2013 #165

I can find link after link saying that Phoenix has a water problem Matariki May 2013 #78