General Discussion

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)

153. You have a narrow outlook based on one incident...

Thu May 2, 2013, 01:30 PM

May 2013

Last edited Thu May 2, 2013, 02:06 PM - Edit history (1)

Millions of people engage in competitive shooting (target, skeet, sporting clays, Cowboy Action Shooting, to name a few). Many of these arms are so modified as to make them unsuitable for self-defense use. Still other millions use guns to hunt with. Killing is involved, but since we ALL kill to eat, "death and destruction" is over-blown sophistry.

As for weapons designed for self-protection, I have one and it is ready each night I turn in for a good sound sleep. It is designed for duty-use, specifically to protect LEOs, security personnel, etc., and is readily available for any citizen who wants or needs self-proection. No apology or shame in that.

Should you desire further info on self-defense weapons I will be glad to help.

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Guns should not be manufactured and marketed for children, period. Period. [View all] Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 OP

completely agree - the 2a'ers have just lost touch with reality DrDan May 2013 #1

There have been youth guns available for decades pipoman May 2013 #120

You're asking if I would I give my five year old her own ATV? Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #128

no I don't DrDan May 2013 #133

Are you trying to compare a gun an ATV? Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #149

ATV's are toys? pipoman May 2013 #219

Yup,...so are these... Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #221

Then I guess by your definition, yes.. pipoman May 2013 #222

gun advocates often compare cars to guns in terms of deadliness CreekDog May 2013 #284

You must be mistaken.. pipoman May 2013 #285

whatever your previous role, you aren't the authority on what I can refer to here CreekDog May 2013 #286

Have you been drinking sir? pipoman May 2013 #287

the comparison is apt because you made reference to ATV's CreekDog May 2013 #288

Being able to discern pipoman May 2013 #306

The girl driving the ATV in the photo can get her brother killed -- just as dead as with a gun OmahaBlueDog May 2013 #293

Were you ever a kid? Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #294

Yes I was a kid. Yes I rode a bike with no helmet, climbed a tree, and did a variety of other stuff OmahaBlueDog May 2013 #296

Looks to me like they are just POSING on it... Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #297

I don't know many kids who were "given" anything more powerful than a BB gun to use unsupervised OmahaBlueDog May 2013 #300

I've seen father-son hunting trips treated like father-son fishing trips... Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #301

That's a bad thing if it means large quantities of beer are being consumed OmahaBlueDog May 2013 #302

Especially if dad took away the tractor. Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #305

You are finally getting it.. pipoman May 2013 #309

LOL!! Oh sure! And the first time you send him to bed... Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #310

That's what I thought.. pipoman May 2013 #312

what's the rate of fire on that quad? frylock May 2013 #172

About 150 kids per year... pipoman May 2013 #227

we should probably heavily regulate those frylock May 2013 #232

They Could Get Some Nasty Scrapes & Bruises From That Thing SoCalMusicLover May 2013 #182

ATVs kill about 150 kids per year. Drownings kills 800. Gun accidents kill 80 hack89 May 2013 #191

87% of total gun deaths, 23 industrialized nations, children under 15 Progressive dog May 2013 #195

Don't change the subject hack89 May 2013 #201

I think I hear your guns calling, shouldn't you Progressive dog May 2013 #203

Peril? You shitting me? hack89 May 2013 #204

Scared you though Progressive dog May 2013 #209

Scared me? hack89 May 2013 #213

Inanimate lumps of stell that are used to kill Progressive dog May 2013 #217

Mine must be defective hack89 May 2013 #218

LOL!! ailsagirl May 2013 #236

You've been off topic for a while Progressive dog May 2013 #240

I didn't bring up the issue of ATVs hack89 May 2013 #244

Oh there's another hack89 who did in post 182 Progressive dog May 2013 #245

I posted hard numbers comparing accidental deaths between ATVs and guns among children. hack89 May 2013 #246

And then denied doing it, commonly called lying Progressive dog May 2013 #247

Show me where I denied posting hard numbers hack89 May 2013 #248

Hack89 with another oh so clever change of subject-Lying yet again Progressive dog May 2013 #249

I didn't bring up ATVs - did you read the post I was replying to? hack89 May 2013 #250

You accused me of bringing up ATV's, that makes you a liar Progressive dog May 2013 #252

No - I was referring to my reply to SoCalMusicLover. Sorry for any confusion. nt hack89 May 2013 #253

Way to mix intentional criminal acts with accidental deaths to defend your leaking position. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #234

Way to write gibberish Progressive dog May 2013 #241

I didn't really expect you to understand it. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #257

So I met your expectations Progressive dog May 2013 #259

If you did, you wouldn't have tried to compare all gun-related deaths of children AtheistCrusader May 2013 #261

Now I really get to meet your expectations Progressive dog May 2013 #264

You don't seem to be reading what I wrote. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #266

So your buddy brings in unrelated stuff and no one else can do that Progressive dog May 2013 #272

Why is it not relevant? AtheistCrusader May 2013 #274

You told me it wasn't and now it is Progressive dog May 2013 #276

Thank you for insulting me. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #277

You don't get it Progressive dog May 2013 #279

ATV's are regulated. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #280

I thought you didn't get it, now I know you didn't Progressive dog May 2013 #290

Given the contents of this thread, and who said what, you make no sense. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #291

The truly telling part of those numbers is.. pipoman May 2013 #228

Yeah..scrapes and bruises.. pipoman May 2013 #220

The Crickett rifle is a single-shot .22 bolt action. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #233

2a'ers kardonb May 2013 #146

I agree to a point.. pipoman May 2013 #223

yes if the allow their kids unsupervised access to guns. loli phabay May 2013 #251

Why do we need 10 different threads on this topic. Travis_0004 May 2013 #2

+1! Hangingon May 2013 #5

You're more than welcome to embrace the Trash Thread button if it so offends your sensibilities. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #6

Hell, he can trash by keyword if he needs to. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #105

How do you do that? nt raccoon May 2013 #112

Ha!~ I had to go look, since I've never actually done it. Here you go: Warren DeMontague May 2013 #139

Thank you! nt raccoon May 2013 #142

It does not help. I try to avoid these threads but they are everywhere nt Mojorabbit May 2013 #151

If you don't like them, why do you post in them? longship May 2013 #304

I get sucked in sometimes and mostly regret it! :) nt Mojorabbit May 2013 #311

but that would rob them of the opportunity to post in a thread they don't give a shit about frylock May 2013 #173

Because some may have missed the other nine. TheCowsCameHome May 2013 #8

This. Control-Z May 2013 #14

It brings out the gun nuts Progressive dog May 2013 #11

Didn't realize you were in charge. Kingofalldems May 2013 #13

self-delete TheCowsCameHome May 2013 #15

BEcause this country has fucking lost its mind and needs to be corrected. morningfog May 2013 #67

Because, like every other hot current issue this deserves to be discussed liberal N proud May 2013 #85

There can never timdog44 May 2013 #136

You're right. 10 isn't enough Renew Deal May 2013 #138

Agree completely. Of course, ads for the mature gun crowd are kind of sick too. Hoyt May 2013 #3

Yep. Definately geared for the dick compensater crowd. Arctic Dave May 2013 #7

Any more predictable, cliched insults you'd like to toss out? Lizzie Poppet May 2013 #30

Cliche? Arctic Dave May 2013 #62

Heh heh Orrex May 2013 #131

Those ads make it kind of obvious don't they. Crunchy Frog May 2013 #42

Oooooooooh, premium May 2013 #9

When I was in boot camp timdog44 May 2013 #57

I'm not sure "mature" is the target audience... Scootaloo May 2013 #177

You have to be a special kind of deranged to give your child a lethal weapon Arctic Dave May 2013 #4

All three of my sons started shooting at age 10. oneshooter May 2013 #12

Did you buy your kid a little powder blue Control-Z May 2013 #16

I got my first .22 at age twelve. Arctic Dave May 2013 #19

Where did you get 4 years old out of his post? ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #26

My guess is the poster is referring to this story: blue neen May 2013 #33

The Perfesser doesn't bother to actually read links in posts. baldguy May 2013 #34

The wording was ambiguous ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #84

These OPs are part of the 5year old who killed his sister Arctic Dave May 2013 #64

You should take your anti gun glasses off, and read again. n/t oneshooter May 2013 #27

I know an 8 year old little girl who got a pink 22 from the Easter Bunny, blue neen May 2013 #31

Did you give them their own gun at 10? treestar May 2013 #109

You really need to read carefully. oneshooter May 2013 #115

The poster says they started shooting at 10 treestar May 2013 #116

My sons trained with the same 22 rifle I recieved when I was 10. A Remington Nylon bolt action. oneshooter May 2013 #119

You or some family member may be deranged...can you pass a mental health check? Sancho May 2013 #129

YAAAY! snort May 2013 #188

My daughters started shooting at an early age ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #21

I stand by my remarks. Arctic Dave May 2013 #22

Actually if you are training them properly, it would be ranged ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #23

Post removed Post removed May 2013 #169

My daughters are yet to kill anyone they should not have ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #194

And I stand by your right to say so, even if you sound like an asshole saying it. oneshooter May 2013 #29

Golly! Orrex May 2013 #39

"But specifically marketing a gun specifically for children? That's sick." Progressive dog May 2013 #10

Why? Legal activity done under close adult supervision should be fine ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #25

I agree! This is beyond f***ed up. I really don't understand the gun nut mentality. smirkymonkey May 2013 #190

I find these complaints incomprehensible as well ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #197

I guess I just don't get it. It is not part of my culture and it never will be. smirkymonkey May 2013 #206

Its not the guns, its the stupid ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #211

Define what you mean by children in your screed... ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #17

I would think that for a hunting shotgun.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #86

Shorter LOP is not a big deal. I know many women who prefer that as well ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #92

Well good for her. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #98

She preferred traditional walnut furniture with basic black ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #124

It is amusing to me what is and isn't acceptable to market towards kids. Arcanetrance May 2013 #18

To be just like good ole dad. Hoyt May 2013 #35

elimination of life is not their sole purpose. aikoaiko May 2013 #38

Really cause I can't think of any other purpose for them Arcanetrance May 2013 #41

Target shooting, recreational and competitive. aikoaiko May 2013 #44

Forgive me I don't find guns fun having had one pointed at me Arcanetrance May 2013 #51

Our experiences do shape our attitudes. aikoaiko May 2013 #54

I have had them pointed at me off and on for 30years. oneshooter May 2013 #60

I take it you do something for a living where that's a possible part of the job Arcanetrance May 2013 #61

US Marine 1970-78 oneshooter May 2013 #63

While I admire your courage you had training for this the risks were known Arcanetrance May 2013 #73

I wouldn't brag about being a merc MattBaggins May 2013 #147

I really don't give a damn what they think. I have been "retired" now for 10 years. oneshooter May 2013 #175

You have a narrow outlook based on one incident... Eleanors38 May 2013 #153

How about having them take up archery? smirkymonkey May 2013 #192

I like archery, but you do know that an arrow can kill too, don't you? aikoaiko May 2013 #198

Not quite as lethal as a gun. And most people who are Archers are not carrying them smirkymonkey May 2013 #208

I agree, but the level of supervision needs to be almost the same, IMO. aikoaiko May 2013 #212

The problem is thinking -- good luck with that!! nt CokeMachine May 2013 #88

elimination of life is their sole purpose DrDan May 2013 #77

Its like a mantra for you people. aikoaiko May 2013 #80

They have to go with what they have -- nt CokeMachine May 2013 #89

the truth is the truth regardless of how communicated DrDan May 2013 #107

"sole purpose" does not mean what you think it means aikoaiko May 2013 #121

oh I think it probably does DrDan May 2013 #132

so guns were originally designed and manufactured to shoot at paper targets? frylock May 2013 #174

"originally designed" =/= "sole purpose" aikoaiko May 2013 #179

no, i mean ORIGINALLY originally frylock May 2013 #183

Maybe entertainment. I understand that celebretory fireworks predated martial fireworks. aikoaiko May 2013 #199

clearly target shooting was so popular they had to make an ammendment to the constitution frylock May 2013 #200

Among other reasons. aikoaiko May 2013 #202

Sorry. Your chant is wrong again. Eleanors38 May 2013 #154

I shall stand by it DrDan May 2013 #163

Go ahead. It's still wrong. Eleanors38 May 2013 #178

NRA shouldn't market gun courses for 4 year olds either HockeyMom May 2013 #20

They don't market gun courses for 4 year olds ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #28

And it teaches kids to do three things if they come across a firearm lying around. TheMightyFavog May 2013 #45

You forgot "Leave the room". n/t oneshooter May 2013 #50

Except kids like to emulate good ole dad, the gun cultist. Hoyt May 2013 #66

The OP story shows how that works Progressive dog May 2013 #94

This only makes sense to young ones if their parents are compliant LeftInTX May 2013 #157

A 4 or 5 year old is far from a "youth" HockeyMom May 2013 #69

I asked that very question about the OP, what did he mean by children ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #78

My boys were each 18 before they had their own guns rl6214 May 2013 #24

This Crickett line, the Hello Kitty AK47s, etc., are proof that... OneGrassRoot May 2013 #32

+1000 baldguy May 2013 #36

+1 SunSeeker May 2013 #53

"Reasonable gun safety measures" MattBaggins May 2013 #148

Yes, words do matter, but in this context... OneGrassRoot May 2013 #164

I agree but it is bigger than that MattBaggins May 2013 #166

I'll try to be more mindful of that. OneGrassRoot May 2013 #170

Gun sales increased after bans were proposed. Nt Eleanors38 May 2013 #155

By whom? OneGrassRoot May 2013 #160

Renewal and widening the AWB by Diane Feinstein and many others... Eleanors38 May 2013 #180

I generally agree that 4 - 5 is too young, but I'm not going to get hysterical about it. aikoaiko May 2013 #37

The parent is ultimately in charge...in an ideal world. blue neen May 2013 #40

Its a really small rifle. Cricketts are small. Its a fine name. aikoaiko May 2013 #52

Children are small. "Cricketts" kill small children. blue neen May 2013 #56

And, yet, here we are. aikoaiko May 2013 #58

That's correct, because it's not practical---it's all about the economics. blue neen May 2013 #59

Exactly !! lunasun May 2013 #103

Ditto marions ghost May 2013 #162

Well, that's stupid. morningfog May 2013 #68

More high-minded commentary from the OMGGUNSWTFBBQ club. aikoaiko May 2013 #74

And even that is more consideration than your ilk deserve. morningfog May 2013 #82

I'm sure that is the best you can do considering aikoaiko May 2013 #83

I think the fog is lasting longer tonight. nt CokeMachine May 2013 #90

You must be very young... kappa maki May 2013 #43

Umm, high capacity mags on civvie rifles weren't exactly a thing fifty years ago. TheMightyFavog May 2013 #46

Uh, no. Guns are not the same as they were 50 years ago. blue neen May 2013 #49

I can't think of an advance in civilian firearms since the early 60s Recursion May 2013 #113

Glad that this is no longer the norm. Previous generations did a lot of stupid shit. morningfog May 2013 #71

Cap guns and BB guns don't usually kill human beings. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #102

Did you read all my post?...where I talked about the "real" guns we took to school? kappa maki May 2013 #189

Because, like it or not, guns account for the overwhelming majority of homicides in this country. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #256

Your post highlights a fundamental viewpoint difference between gun owners and non gun owners Xithras May 2013 #47

So, Bushmaster .223=Socket Wrench? blue neen May 2013 #55

Gun owners kill lots of people. morningfog May 2013 #72

So do car owners. oneshooter May 2013 #95

Cars =/= Guns Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #99

Did I say that? Or are you projecting again. oneshooter May 2013 #118

You pretty much did. nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #184

So you deny that people are killed by cars? oneshooter May 2013 #210

I deny that cars are an instrument specifically designed to kill/injure or simulate killing/injuring Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #255

But you do agree that cars, despite what they are built for, kill people. oneshooter May 2013 #298

Cars are not designed as weapons and are rarely used as such. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #307

Ah, the car argument is one of the cutest! morningfog May 2013 #100

Tough to beat bathtub falls and swimming pool drowings, though. TheCowsCameHome May 2013 #111

don't forget hammers! CTyankee May 2013 #114

Hand grenades are tools too. Crunchy Frog May 2013 #110

Great stuff. Can you tell us how many 5 yr olds kill 2 yr olds with their very own jmg257 May 2013 #135

I'll just leave this here newmember May 2013 #48

Just watched "Shane" the other day. It's sort of an explanation for how youngsters get so SleeplessinSoCal May 2013 #65

Can anyone guess what this rifle is ? newmember May 2013 #70

Sorry but that gun is in no way marketed to children. (It's a HK 416 btw) justanidea May 2013 #75

Whether that particular rifle is or just a conversion kit for a AR15 is... newmember May 2013 #79

I know it's a .22 justanidea May 2013 #140

The Cliff Notes version of this thread: justanidea May 2013 #76

Four year olds, Dude. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #81

LOL SunSeeker May 2013 #143

I'm against commercial ads generally... Deep13 May 2013 #87

I'm perfectly fine with such hunting shotguns for adults and even teenagers. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #93

Why just hunting. Deep13 May 2013 #97

Target and skeet shooting are fine too, I guess. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #101

I missed the 4-5 year old thing in your post. CokeMachine May 2013 #91

A five year old boy shot his 2 year old sister. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #96

*shut up* don't talk about Happy Meals. flvegan May 2013 #104

I don't get it. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #106

So true treestar May 2013 #108

No, they don't. beevul May 2013 #181

It is a gun which fits a child. pipoman May 2013 #117

Therein lies the problem. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #122

Not things which pipoman May 2013 #126

"full size hunting shotgun." That's the problem... Eleanors38 May 2013 #161

Prohibition on marketing firearms to children by gun manufacturers. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #289

Problem: When Field & Stream and shooting magazines Eleanors38 May 2013 #308

We'd be talking about marketing and advertising, not seemingly objective journalistic articles. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #314

I understand the parameters of commercial vs free speech... Eleanors38 May 2013 #315

These weapons are weapons such as the Crickett. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #316

My hunting buddy got a Cricket for his son (now in mid-school) Eleanors38 May 2013 #317

"It is in fact made for kids" Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #318

I understand it and I don't care for it cali May 2013 #123

Like I said, it's one thing for someone to take their kid along with them hunting. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #125

Fishing is an excellent suggestion. No kid ever killed his sister with a fishing pole. SunSeeker May 2013 #145

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, premium May 2013 #150

Some of my fondest memories are fishing with my dad. SunSeeker May 2013 #152

I have fond memories also of fishing with my dad, premium May 2013 #156

Beautiful. I'm sure you would have hugely enjoyed doing anything with your dad there. nt SunSeeker May 2013 #158

Thank you. premium May 2013 #159

I understand the alure of motocross too pipoman May 2013 #127

I'm personally fine with the goverment regulating it. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #130

I completely agree. I have a dear young friend who's a quad because cali May 2013 #134

So you advocate the state killing parents of a minor, with a "trial" first? oneshooter May 2013 #176

didn't mean to advocate killing parents cali May 2013 #186

LMAO I don't blame you for editing your post. Skeeter Barnes May 2013 #187

Editing your post was kinda cowardly. If you say it then stand by it. oneshooter May 2013 #215

look, anyone who knows me and that includes here, knows I'm adamently against the dp cali May 2013 #238

AAAW She called me "sweetie". oneshooter May 2013 #299

Really? "they should be tried and killed for negligent homicide if a kid kills someone with it." friendly_iconoclast May 2013 #231

disturbing Skeeter Barnes May 2013 #185

Would you give your 5yr. Old a Car and the Keys???? DreamSmoker May 2013 #137

Do these children have gun permits??? Walk away May 2013 #141

What "gun permits"? oneshooter May 2013 #216

forewarning... I'm old formernaderite May 2013 #144

It's early brainwashing malaise May 2013 #165

We've come a long way from playing cowboys and indians. L0oniX May 2013 #167

What about violent video games? alp227 May 2013 #168

How are kids supposed to learn to violently overthrow their democratically elected government... harmonicon May 2013 #171

I can't even believe that anybody is even defending this shit. smirkymonkey May 2013 #193

Ahhh the joys of cloistered life ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #196

Sorry, I'm just a city girl at heart. smirkymonkey May 2013 #205

Says one of the chair-bound who pickets the forum 24/7 to keep the gun grabbers in check Kolesar May 2013 #207

It keeps me busy between chemo sessions ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #214

Agreed. Apophis May 2013 #224

Lawrence O'Donnell is slaughtering this company. BVictor1 May 2013 #225

THAT was a masterpiece! "Legalized child pornography", for sure. bullwinkle428 May 2013 #226

We need to stop this insanity Politicalboi May 2013 #229

Ok, it's not for you. Fine. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #230

I honestly don't care what you personally find interesting or not. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #242

It actually IS a cultural element. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #258

I read this and was horrified DissidentVoice May 2013 #235

I got my first air rifle at six years old. I started learning to shoot at nine Nanjing to Seoul May 2013 #237

Simple: My kids are forbidden from playing with any child who owns or has access to guns alcibiades_mystery May 2013 #239

Could not agree more. Sick indeed. nt DLevine May 2013 #243

Manufacturing and marketing guns to children marions ghost May 2013 #254

Kids can't purchase them, 'Period'. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #260

Marketing is aimed at kids (& parents) marions ghost May 2013 #262

Actually, the social 'approval' was already there. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #263

Cultural diversity marions ghost May 2013 #267

The image in the OP suggests a hunting/sporting purpose. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #270

The coroner should know... marions ghost May 2013 #273

Totally fair point. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #275

Maybe because this carnage has been going on so long marions ghost May 2013 #278

From all sources, that is true, kids do get killed a lot. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #281

So guns are fine for young kids marions ghost May 2013 #282

WIth appropriate adult supervision, I think so. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #283

Yep. premium May 2013 #268

At that age, 4 yo, premium May 2013 #265

Yes they should be charged marions ghost May 2013 #269

Agreed. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #271

No! No! I want an Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle! OmahaBlueDog May 2013 #292

Very funny movie ailsagirl May 2013 #295

Guns and Viagra Aerows May 2013 #303

The arguments in this thread FlaGranny May 2013 #313