General Discussion

kctim

(3,575 posts)

218. So how many people

Tue Feb 7, 2012, 11:03 AM

Feb 2012

need an "artist" to create a foo-foo fireplace or cabinet for them VS. needing a surgeon for their health? Sorry, but there is a much greater demand for surgeons than there is for "artists."

But, you are partially correct on the skilled trade thing. No, I have not studied anything like that in particular, but guess what, I can and have made a nice looking cabinet. I have finished basements, trim, columns, doors, walls and wiring. All up to code and looking good enough to resell at a profit or, as is the case now, to enjoy myself.
Doesn't mean I think any monkey could do it or that I am even in same league as those who dedicate their lives to it. It just means that most people can do a good job at it or even go without a new cabinet, but they cannot do a good enough job or go without when it comes to their health.

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Why are surgeons paid more than brick layers? [View all] Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 OP

They don't all have reasonable hours. Unless you think 4 am phone calls from nurses to report labs TwilightGardener Feb 2012 #1

Beats showing up at the jobsite at first light and working until darkness though. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #2

No, it doesn't. TwilightGardener Feb 2012 #15

One let's you retire at 55 though, and one has you drop dead at 55. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #25

Not necessarily. TwilightGardener Feb 2012 #41

I've found any job with that much UV exposure is not good for you longterm. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #47

I know two urologists who were on disability by age 60 mainer Feb 2012 #46

But I'm sure they have plenty saved up and it wasn't financially devastating. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #50

I'm a Union Bricklayer. I live in a NYC borough, I can answer any questions you have. FarLeftFist Feb 2012 #188

Because one has a skillset that has been deemed more valuable by society. Kurska Feb 2012 #114

Exact opposite. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #121

I have a good friend of mine who is a resident MD and sometimes works 24/7. Initech Feb 2012 #166

How deeply in debt is the bricklayer from all his years of bricklaying school? KamaAina Feb 2012 #3

Pobably more than the doctors MattBaggins Feb 2012 #12

wow - what a generalization dana_b Feb 2012 #38

Not an over generalization MattBaggins Feb 2012 #164

I imagine the relevance of your post would be if that number is unusually and consistently higher LanternWaste Feb 2012 #214

Stay classy. (nt) Posteritatis Feb 2012 #102

How many years at a surgeons salary does it take to pay off medical school bills? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #17

It took me and my husband about 10 years. mainer Feb 2012 #21

So I'd have my loans paid off by the time I was 32. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #26

And if a doc starts paying off his loans at 30... mainer Feb 2012 #31

Guess they are living high on the hog at 30. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #36

Most doctors decide that at 30, it's now or never to have kids mainer Feb 2012 #39

Weird. I thought people were able to have kids after 30. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #43

If you're a woman, you don't want to have your first kid at 45. mainer Feb 2012 #59

That's why I married 8 years my junior. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #60

Drat, that was my mistake! Not marrying a man who was 8 years younger! mainer Feb 2012 #62

It's amazing that people seem to be able to support 2 kids on less than 50K a year. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #64

while paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans? mainer Feb 2012 #66

both of us left medicine, by the way. mainer Feb 2012 #67

So tell me how much you were both making when you were 33? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #73

Making: under $100,000. Student loans: close to $200,000. mainer Feb 2012 #81

A tad different, but still a very good salary. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #85

You appear to be rather confident when budgeting other people's money without knowing LanternWaste Feb 2012 #215

Wasn't that the reason I asked the question? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #216

I made no inference as to why you asked a question. LanternWaste Feb 2012 #219

my sister was making $285k 1st year out of residency Dokkie Feb 2012 #165

An OB/GYN Sgent Feb 2012 #174

Yes, she was a surgeon mainer Feb 2012 #175

I was thinking more in the line Dokkie Feb 2012 #182

You are dissing your sister mainer Feb 2012 #206

My neurosurgeon didn't get out of training until he was 32 w8liftinglady Feb 2012 #42

I don't begrudge him. I just think you should be making a lot more money. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #45

A bricklayer's apprentice spends all day mixing mortar and hauling heavy block for Dragonfli Feb 2012 #148

I am not devaluing tradespeople KamaAina Feb 2012 #156

Because more people can be brick layers than they can be surgeons. kctim Feb 2012 #4

You sure about that? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #19

Would you rather have a surgeon build your fireplace, or a bricklayer perform your surgery? 11 Bravo Feb 2012 #70

I know doctor who enjoys building stone walls mainer Feb 2012 #84

You continue to make little sense. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #123

It's minimization like that which is really disturbing. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #126

I wish we could "minimize" most surgery to the same level. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #136

Your right. Those "little" people should learn a new skill if they want more money. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #139

I can see that you know very little about trades or todays construction, or perhaps you are a Dragonfli Feb 2012 #154

Most that try it lack either the talent (it takes the talent of an artist you know) or the physical Dragonfli Feb 2012 #153

So how many people kctim Feb 2012 #218

So basically your argument is people will pay the doctors exorbitantly because of a death threat? Dragonfli Feb 2012 #229

Aw kctim Feb 2012 #233

You can have the bricklayer perform your next surgery... SidDithers Feb 2012 #5

Nurse, hand me that trowel pintobean Feb 2012 #20

That works both ways MichaelMcGuire Feb 2012 #44

When was the last time you needed an EMERGENCY home built?? JoePhilly Feb 2012 #125

LOL true nt MichaelMcGuire Feb 2012 #152

Emergency repairs are quite common, but being the expert you are, you know all about that. Dragonfli Feb 2012 #157

You still have it backwards. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #163

No I compared it to a homeowner that failed to maintain his home assume the bricks were perfect when Dragonfli Feb 2012 #170

What is "frustrating" is you claiming I said things that I did not say. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #186

what about sorefeet Feb 2012 #236

Pay should be tied to years of training combined with a valuation of skill/talent displayed Dragonfli Feb 2012 #173

Only problem.... Fastcars Feb 2012 #223

My sister is opting out of open heart surgery right now, she can't get the funding Dragonfli Feb 2012 #226

Emergency repairs aren't performed by unskilled workers, and hence are expensive. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2012 #199

The whole point of this OP is that they are not "well paid". Not all of these skilled tradespeople Dragonfli Feb 2012 #203

I'm afraid I think that most of the facts you cite are inaccurate Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2012 #211

I have worked in three trades for all my life, This is not the UK (35 year career) Dragonfli Feb 2012 #224

Surgeons are paid more because there are fewer of them AngryAmish Feb 2012 #6

I have found that the highest barrier to being a surgeon is family money. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #23

Nope. Loans all the way for us. mainer Feb 2012 #35

Generally I find very few doctors that do not come from good families though. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #40

well, I'm the daughter of a cook mainer Feb 2012 #49

What is a good family? What does that even mean? MineralMan Feb 2012 #53

I've found that those "American Dream" yarns to not be the norm though. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #57

Is that what you've found? MineralMan Feb 2012 #58

Actually I do. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #61

In my medical school, there were quite a few from blue-collar families mainer Feb 2012 #65

Huh? Yo_Mama Feb 2012 #191

The AMA is a union which controls the supply of doctors. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2012 #71

The AMA is nothing but a shill for the pharmaceutical companies anymore. hunter Feb 2012 #90

One of my best friends is a primacy care physician. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #124

Exactly! It's barriers to entry. Jim Lane Feb 2012 #200

Part of it is the responsibility for a human life. MineralMan Feb 2012 #7

OOOh, look at you too high and mighty to use a self-taught surgeon AngryAmish Feb 2012 #18

I apologize profusely to all self-taught surgeons. MineralMan Feb 2012 #22

lolz JNelson6563 Feb 2012 #107

I worked in construction when I was growing up ... my dad taught me ... JoePhilly Feb 2012 #129

Thanks. I learned a lot of things from my father, too. MineralMan Feb 2012 #172

Wow. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #195

You ought to see my patio. Ron Green Feb 2012 #8

surgeons do not work fewer than 5 days a week mainer Feb 2012 #9

+1 JoePhilly Feb 2012 #130

Maybe because med school cost more than masonry training. eom tawadi Feb 2012 #10

This is not a good example to make the point cthulu2016 Feb 2012 #11

Perhaps you are right. I just think the spread is ridiculous. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #24

Oh, wait. Did you leave out the sarcasm thingy? mainer Feb 2012 #13

doctors average 105.00 per hour madrchsod Feb 2012 #14

not sure what you're after, but I'll answer in straightforward fashion DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2012 #16

I'm just pondering how blue collar labor is minimized. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #30

With the ease of a right wink think tank ... apparently... sadly....on a Democratic site Dragonfli Feb 2012 #158

I spend time on various computer hardware forums and tech websites MicaelS Feb 2012 #232

I've known some do-it-yourself types who could lay bricks. Recovered Repug Feb 2012 #27

Thinking again, you might want a bricklayer to do MineralMan Feb 2012 #28

Scarcity. There are a lot more people capable of laying bricks than performing surgery. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2012 #29

Part of that is control of the supply bu the US Medical establishment ProgressiveProfessor Feb 2012 #72

“Dammit Jim, I’m a doctor not a bricklayer!” cthulu2016 Feb 2012 #32

because most people would rather have a broken wall than be dead. Warren DeMontague Feb 2012 #33

I'm sure there are pintobean Feb 2012 #34

Good point about the hours. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #37

I agree that brick layers should be better compensated BUT dana_b Feb 2012 #48

When you say "making some money" what kind of figures are we talking about? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #51

Bricklayers are paid by contractors and homeowners, aren't they? mainer Feb 2012 #56

Sounds like a race to the bottom to me. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #63

So pay your bricklayer more. mainer Feb 2012 #69

You are confusing bricklayers with gardeners Dragonfli Feb 2012 #159

Got some facts wrong there. Ms. Toad Feb 2012 #52

The career is changing mainer Feb 2012 #54

What does sex ratio have to do with Surgeon vs. Brick Layer? Neoma Feb 2012 #204

I'm addressing the stereotype of the evil rich white male doctor mainer Feb 2012 #207

How long does it take to learn how to butter a brick? badtoworse Feb 2012 #55

About the same amount of time it takes to learn how to put in a stitch. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2012 #75

Oh right. It's just like sewing a dress. mainer Feb 2012 #82

You make it sound like cleaning fish badtoworse Feb 2012 #104

Because a brinklayer never saved my life or saved me from being crippled the rest of my life. sarge43 Feb 2012 #68

My point is that blue collar workers should be paid A LOT more not that Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #76

Agree that blue collar workers are getting the shaft and are not being paid what they deserve. sarge43 Feb 2012 #92

Never never never said that surgeons are paid too much. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #106

In so many words, no you didn't, but you implied as much sarge43 Feb 2012 #135

And you saw something wrong with that. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #141

Male bovine fecal material sarge43 Feb 2012 #146

Check out Dragonfli's and nadinbrzynski's(sp?) posts and you will get it. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #209

*Skilled* manual labourers *are* paid a lot. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2012 #197

Our society values philosophers more than plumbers? white_wolf Feb 2012 #88

I believe I wrote "A society ..." n/t sarge43 Feb 2012 #93

Good plumbing has probably saved more lives than good surgeons. Hassin Bin Sober Feb 2012 #91

Good point. For more people, that's probably true. sarge43 Feb 2012 #97

+1 n/t lumberjack_jeff Feb 2012 #162

And why do surgery centers get paid more than surgeons? Blue_In_AK Feb 2012 #74

The machinery of corneal transplant surgery is more important to the procedure. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2012 #79

Well, that's comforting. Blue_In_AK Feb 2012 #83

I'm saying that a machine is a machine. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2012 #161

why are bricklayers paid more than pizza delivery guys? spanone Feb 2012 #77

Why Do NBA PLayers Get Paid More The Social Workers? zorahopkins Feb 2012 #78

Another great question. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #80

Surgeons study for over decade savalez Feb 2012 #86

The lifestyle of surgeons is so brutal that only COLGATE4 Feb 2012 #87

Why does the Govt pay more to the killers of poor people raouldukelives Feb 2012 #89

My, my, aren't there a lot of jackasses in this thread! izquierdista Feb 2012 #94

What?? I don't know any surgeon that works less than a 60-70 hour week... tjwash Feb 2012 #95

I agree that manual laborers are underpaid and under appreciated. white_wolf Feb 2012 #96

I find that when folks post these kind of hypotheticals TBF Feb 2012 #98

Most surgeons would be kick-ass brick layers. hunter Feb 2012 #99

bargaining power killbotfactory Feb 2012 #100

Manual labour's horribly underpaid, but I'm not too offended at surgeons' pay. (nt) Posteritatis Feb 2012 #101

I appreciate the sentiment behind your post... w8liftinglady Feb 2012 #103

Would you pay 30% above the going rate for a house, Nye Bevan Feb 2012 #105

Absolutely if it was well built. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #110

Ummm ... When was the last time you needed an EMERGENCY BRICK LAYER???? JoePhilly Feb 2012 #108

You missed the point entirely. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #111

As I read more of the responses ... its clear that very few "got your point". nt JoePhilly Feb 2012 #115

Nope. Your father probably would have, but not you apparently. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #116

He knew a brick layer was never going to save your life. JoePhilly Feb 2012 #117

I'm sure your father would have liked to have been better compensated for his work. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #118

Everyone in this thread seems to be telling you the same thing. Kurska Feb 2012 #119

Thank you. n/t sarge43 Feb 2012 #140

excellent point Incitatus Feb 2012 #151

Obligatory Star Trek quote... slackmaster Feb 2012 #122

Your President does too dipsydoodle Feb 2012 #109

A lot of surgeons don't have good hours. backscatter712 Feb 2012 #112

A surgeon saved my life twice - don't emilyg Feb 2012 #113

Becoming a surgeon requires years of specialized education and training, and lots of money up front slackmaster Feb 2012 #120

That is true. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #127

On this we agree slackmaster Feb 2012 #142

I can't believe people are rec' ing this! Are you kidding me? Quantess Feb 2012 #128

That is not the point at all. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #131

I read your OP and I don't think I missed anything. Quantess Feb 2012 #138

Your last line got it. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #210

Surgeons have the ability to kill people if they don't do their jobs correctly. Avalux Feb 2012 #132

because the input cost of obtaining an MD and successfully making it through residency is unbelievab Obama3_16 Feb 2012 #133

I am able to lay bricks. I have also laid real hardwood floors. Vinca Feb 2012 #134

Because their output is more valuable. Dreamer Tatum Feb 2012 #137

the medical profession CAUSES 225,000 deaths a year. provis99 Feb 2012 #143

Using that logic, Christmas cards cause Christmas. nt Dreamer Tatum Feb 2012 #145

you need to read on the definition of logic. provis99 Feb 2012 #147

definitely don't go to a surgeon for your next operation mainer Feb 2012 #176

I have laid bricks. SA, I would be happy to do any surgeries you might need... renie408 Feb 2012 #144

Time invested in training and ability to do the task... JSnuffy Feb 2012 #149

Something called supply and demand. Incitatus Feb 2012 #150

What is the source of your information about surgeons? You/your comparison are quite WRONG! Carolina Feb 2012 #155

You are going about it the wrong way nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #160

Congratulations. You absolutely nailed it. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #168

Finally an adequate answer, the poster IMO was not putting down MD's so much as supporting brickies Dragonfli Feb 2012 #169

Putting "down" the trades nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #179

BULLSEYE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #208

Forbidding doctors from working more than 40 hours a week would cause hospitals serious problems. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2012 #212

When the state of new York cut resident's Shift hours from 36 to 24 nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #221

How much does that bricklayer pay for malpractice insurance every year? WillowTree Feb 2012 #167

Supply and Demand is the answer to most questions that involve "how much we pay" Egalitariat Feb 2012 #171

Another conundrum mainer Feb 2012 #177

Speak for yourself. I don't put less value on manual labor. gulliver Feb 2012 #178

Why do airline pilots make less than managers at McDonald's? mmonk Feb 2012 #180

Because the pilot doesn't have our lives in his hands? Little Star Feb 2012 #231

Frightening, isn't it? mmonk Feb 2012 #235

This is a joke question, right? You seriously don't know? Here's your answer: Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #181

you could have easily been a bricklayer except you couldn't? pitohui Feb 2012 #185

Okay, so communication isn't your strong suit. Here's a restatement, Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #190

Exactly alcibiades_mystery Feb 2012 #202

It's all about supply and demand FreeJoe Feb 2012 #183

because of class hate pitohui Feb 2012 #184

Don't know how to break this to you, but surgeons certainly do work with their hands. WillowTree Feb 2012 #194

Surgeons have been saving lives since the 14th century... SidDithers Feb 2012 #217

Go through 12-16 years of grueling education coming out with over $200,000 in debt fujiyama Feb 2012 #187

You're going to start your career with a chunkload of debt Yo_Mama Feb 2012 #189

Slightly different question: How much more should a surgeon make than a brick layer? limpyhobbler Feb 2012 #192

For the same reason ball players are paid more than surgeons. yellowcanine Feb 2012 #193

So much foolishness, I don't know where to begin. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2012 #196

Good to see someone giv'n this thread the bidness! lonestarnot Feb 2012 #198

Sanity at last. Johnny Rico Feb 2012 #201

Are bricklayers paid more than doctors anywhere in the world? mainer Feb 2012 #205

I believe they used to make the same salaries in Cuba until a few years ago slackmaster Feb 2012 #225

I believe manual labor is merely but part and parcel of the total of value. LanternWaste Feb 2012 #213

My dad was a brickie Boudica the Lyoness Feb 2012 #220

Increasingly, the American labor force is becoming more and more specialized... YoungDemCA Feb 2012 #222

Another great point. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #228

Because a brick layer can't cliffordu Feb 2012 #227

It's all relative... kentuck Feb 2012 #230

This is easy. STATE LICENSING ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2012 #234