General Discussion

Ms. Toad

(38,873 posts)

161. I read this thread before reading the article

Fri May 3, 2013, 10:04 AM

May 2013

and watching the video. I found it hard to reconcile the vitriol in this thread toward the parents with the article and video.

It seems there is a lot of assumptions made well beyond what was actually in the article & video. it also seems to me there is a bit of language barrier going on that makes some of what the mom said open to interpretation - and most of the people in this thread are latching on to the harshest interpretation. (Yes, she is speaking English - but in different cultures which speak English the interpretation of the same phrases can be quite different.)

I certainly wouldn't make the choice to raise my child they way they did, but I was really surprised (after reading this thread) at how happy and relaxed Sasha seemed in the video, and how little pressure to do traditionally feminine (or masculine) things was actually reported.

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It's a boy! Couple reveal sex of their 'gender neutral' kid after five years [View all] snooper2 May 2013 OP

different strokes datasuspect May 2013 #1

+1 Buzz Clik May 2013 #2

Yes get the red out May 2013 #7

Well. sibelian May 2013 #3

Ah, the moronic parents who forced their son to wear a dress. Nye Bevan May 2013 #4

This is the one kid who actually needs a real gun as a toy. cbdo2007 May 2013 #11

Golly! Orrex May 2013 #13

What the fuck? Can you explain? morningfog May 2013 #26

I lol'd nt ecstatic May 2013 #122

Why do you assume the boy was forced? The article says that he wore both "boys" and "girls" clothing Luminous Animal May 2013 #95

The boy was trying to please his parents. Who knows what he really thinks? pnwmom May 2013 #115

This is not 'gender neutral' parenting. Wait Wut May 2013 #5

Correct... Pelican May 2013 #6

My daughter who is three and a half and her friend who just turned five were playing on Tuesday snooper2 May 2013 #8

This kid was being turned into a science project and a political statement pnwmom May 2013 #59

I agree. Adsos Letter May 2013 #75

I agree. So if he wanted to play with GI Joe, that wasn't allowed. Only a ball or whatever. Honeycombe8 May 2013 #140

I agree. She was leading him, not letting him make those choices on his own. Arkansas Granny May 2013 #10

I agree. HappyMe May 2013 #15

not doing anything is gender conforming, not gender neutral. unblock May 2013 #17

And encouraging him to hide his gender when among other people pnwmom May 2013 #107

Exactly n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #112

I had a little boy friend when I was six who liked to come over Cleita May 2013 #18

Oh, I remember a sad incident. At craft store I was looking at colored markers when a Mom & son came KittyWampus May 2013 #21

He probably felt like I did when... Wait Wut May 2013 #24

Now to me marions ghost May 2013 #36

Really? That is child abuse? blueamy66 May 2013 #178

Wow yourself marions ghost May 2013 #182

So you think that not allowing a child to have a certain color is child abuse? blueamy66 May 2013 #185

I think marions ghost May 2013 #187

My wife loves it when I wear pink shirts. madinmaryland May 2013 #111

I agree...the kid really wasn't choosing what to do or wear... joeybee12 May 2013 #32

+1 That isn't gender-neutral. That's alternating-gender-stereotype. n/t winter is coming May 2013 #41

My two and a half year old daughter Dorian Gray May 2013 #51

I agree. This is anything but "gender neutral" parenting... hlthe2b May 2013 #71

Hopefully she pays for mental health treatment for her son throughout his life. cbdo2007 May 2013 #9

Ridiculous marions ghost May 2013 #16

He WAS forced into an artificial gender role, much more than the rest of us. cbdo2007 May 2013 #20

toddlers do not, or at least ought not, rule the roost. unblock May 2013 #28

Watch this video of his mother coaching him on the correct answers to her questions. pnwmom May 2013 #116

parents "coaching" their religious views onto their kids is far more damaging. unblock May 2013 #145

Your approach is entirely different from that mother's, because you were child-focused. pnwmom May 2013 #146

We don't know that he was forced marions ghost May 2013 #30

They admitting they forbid certain items for being "too masculine" joeglow3 May 2013 #37

presented to him marions ghost May 2013 #53

When this particular gender roles transgression is concerned, encouragement = force. redqueen May 2013 #48

Right marions ghost May 2013 #52

Do you really think this mother was just encouraging him? pnwmom May 2013 #117

I think this kid Jenoch May 2013 #132

Good grief marions ghost May 2013 #133

When I implied that this kid Jenoch May 2013 #134

Your biases are showing marions ghost May 2013 #139

I did not mean to imply Jenoch May 2013 #143

Most of us agree that a 5 yr old doesn't need a gun. blueamy66 May 2013 #179

How about marions ghost May 2013 #183

I give up blueamy66 May 2013 #186

+1 nt Dreamer Tatum May 2013 #49

Are you seriously saying THAT would trigger a mental illness? Neoma May 2013 #78

Of course, lots of seemingly insignificant stuff from people's childhoods that trigger cbdo2007 May 2013 #80

And that gives you the right to assume mental disorders? Neoma May 2013 #85

Wait, where did I say that?? cbdo2007 May 2013 #88

It doesn't sound like he's been bothered by it. Neoma May 2013 #90

HAHAHAHAHAHA cbdo2007 May 2013 #96

Kids play dress-up all the time. They do do this. Neoma May 2013 #98

You can stop arguing with me, I already said you won and this is completely normal behavior cbdo2007 May 2013 #99

I'm not arguing for it mind you. Neoma May 2013 #100

Oh good grief. cbdo2007 May 2013 #102

Being involved in the mental health world changes perspectives on these matters. Neoma May 2013 #104

We're both "involved in the mental health world" but each brought a different perspective... cbdo2007 May 2013 #105

But saying automatically this child will have problems? Neoma May 2013 #108

"you as the patient, me as the provider's office" JTFrog May 2013 #142

The children of narcissists are FAR more likely to seek mental health therapy pnwmom May 2013 #154

That would be another thing entirely, and I'm not assuming that of her. Neoma May 2013 #160

Yeah. Just like all those years I spent in therapy LadyHawkAZ May 2013 #130

Frederick II. Robb May 2013 #12

Child abuse question everything May 2013 #14

Is this a joke? marions ghost May 2013 #19

But they did exactly that joeglow3 May 2013 #40

I don't think we know marions ghost May 2013 #46

You didn't read the whole thing. The mother encouraged him pnwmom May 2013 #61

well, according to the reporter, anyway fishwax May 2013 #144

I think the explanation is that he was only allowed to play with gender neutral toys pnwmom May 2013 #147

dressing a boy in pink is child abuse? good grief. unblock May 2013 #22

Telling him to hide that he's a boy couldn't have been good for him. pnwmom May 2013 #63

wait, now i'm supposed to let mini-unblock run around naked outside??? unblock May 2013 #86

They didn't say he had gender neutral clothes gollygee May 2013 #31

I read this thread before reading the article Ms. Toad May 2013 #161

Yep. Some people need to take a moment and consider why they're having over-the-top reactions. redqueen May 2013 #190

You have an extremely light threshold for child abuse Scootaloo May 2013 #91

This was already posted on DU over a year ago. These parents aren't... Poll_Blind May 2013 #23

ah my bad, On the page by the headline was today's date.. snooper2 May 2013 #34

This message was self-deleted by its author geek tragedy May 2013 #25

These "parents" seem to have taken open-mindedness to the level of TheManInTheMac May 2013 #27

She made a child, her own child, a social experiment AngryAmish May 2013 #29

ALL kids are social experiments marions ghost May 2013 #33

not to this extreme they aren't. cali May 2013 #35

I beg to differ marions ghost May 2013 #38

Not the good ones. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #66

Not making a good/bad judgment marions ghost May 2013 #82

I would be critical of that kind of parenting, too. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #83

All narcissists are bad parents, no matter what particular agenda is driving them. pnwmom May 2013 #151

yes narcissists make bad parents marions ghost May 2013 #158

Yup. And there are too many parents who are narcissists, who USE their children pnwmom May 2013 #149

Most are more severe, actually Scootaloo May 2013 #93

+1,000,000 LadyHawkAZ May 2013 #138

thank you +++++ marions ghost May 2013 #141

All narcissists do great damage to their children. pnwmom May 2013 #150

Butbutbut... he's a BOY... and he was ENCOURAGED to do GIRL things! redqueen May 2013 #39

No, he was made to pretend that he wasn't a boy. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #42

LOL. No. redqueen May 2013 #43

"...Beck was resolute and encouraged him to play with dolls to hide his masculinity." Wait Wut May 2013 #54

Well said. HappyMe May 2013 #58

That is not a quote, is it? redqueen May 2013 #60

Wow, okay. Wait Wut May 2013 #68

LOL, I see you're quite good at spinning, yourself... you sure did a good job there. redqueen May 2013 #72

Awwww... Wait Wut May 2013 #73

Uh, ok? Tabloids write copy in such a way as to rouse the maximum amount of rabble. redqueen May 2013 #74

Oh yes. Wait Wut May 2013 #77

I don't pretend to know her motives. redqueen May 2013 #81

Ironically they will make him more gender-conscious than if they had Bonobo May 2013 #156

Says the woman who continually cites "blogs" as sources... opiate69 May 2013 #196

There's nothing gender neutral about a ballerina costume complete with tinkerbell wings. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #101

That's not true. morningfog May 2013 #173

In what language is "ballerina" not gendered? lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #174

It what world is a cut of fabric gendered? morningfog May 2013 #175

My underpants are pretty gendered AngryAmish May 2013 #204

You could try crotchless panties. morningfog May 2013 #205

I have. AngryAmish May 2013 #206

my problem with this has jackshit to do with that cali May 2013 #56

I agree that they're unclear on the definition of 'neutral', I just don't see that as a good reason redqueen May 2013 #57

+1 MadrasT May 2013 #62

I've read a few of these stories. Never read one in which mom was hiding her daughter's sex. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #103

My parents dressed me in boys' clothing, cut my hair very short, and actively discouraged femininity MadrasT May 2013 #159

It is one thing to expose your child to a variety of interests. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #170

They referred to me by my gender neutral name MadrasT May 2013 #177

Good post. Thanks for your perspective. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #180

If I were girl who liked being a girl MadrasT May 2013 #181

"I was a person first" marions ghost May 2013 #189

"it was clear that girly clothes were literally costuming" YES! What an important message! redqueen May 2013 #191

First - there are not many parents who do this Ms. Toad May 2013 #163

That's not the issue at all. pnwmom May 2013 #152

How many of them have narcissistic parents displaying them on TV? pnwmom May 2013 #65

I can see why you say it's reality TV marions ghost May 2013 #94

And a significant number of parents who are "turning" their children into violinists pnwmom May 2013 #106

OK you know more than I do apparently marions ghost May 2013 #109

Here's a youtube of the boy, being coached by his Mom. pnwmom May 2013 #113

It does say he wasn't forced marions ghost May 2013 #120

When he did it, I think I was kind of shocked pnwmom May 2013 #123

OK but marions ghost May 2013 #129

The fact that she referred to the boy HappyMe May 2013 #110

Me, too. What an oddly detached way to refer to Sasha. pnwmom May 2013 #126

I was just going to say the same thing Dorian Gray May 2013 #157

You might want to spend some time Ms. Toad May 2013 #167

I agree that it might be problematic Dorian Gray May 2013 #171

I was basing it mostly on the mismatch between her words - Ms. Toad May 2013 #172

It's good to have the perspective of someone Dorian Gray May 2013 #176

I think the point of hiding his gender Ms. Toad May 2013 #165

I view a religious upbringing of any kind, an extreme social experiment. Luminous Animal May 2013 #97

Eerily similar to the "Vagina Pillows" sketch on Portlandia: (VIDEO) Poll_Blind May 2013 #44

I honestly expected this to be in The Onion deutsey May 2013 #45

I don't know about this BainsBane May 2013 #47

This is the opposite of parenting. nt Dreamer Tatum May 2013 #50

I agree. Owl May 2013 #125

If they truly ever had to deal with an actual physical gender isuue they might know how wrong. gordianot May 2013 #55

I think using your kid to try to make a socio-political statement, sucks. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #64

My parents did pretty much the same thing to me except they did not keep my biological sex a secret MadrasT May 2013 #67

I wonder why we don't see him in any stereotypically "boy" clothes in those pics Orrex May 2013 #69

Tell me again WTF this was supposed to accomplish tularetom May 2013 #70

They did not decide he was gonna be a girl marions ghost May 2013 #92

I think she was thinking about it all too hard. Kids will come into their own, all american girl May 2013 #76

Mom is a narcissist, forcing her "enlightenment" on a poor child. Throd May 2013 #79

blatant neglect and abuse galileoreloaded May 2013 #84

i think what the parents did was Stupid at worst but the kid will be fine since JI7 May 2013 #87

I think these parents are just like the "idiot sports parents" pnwmom May 2013 #118

how about parents who tell their kids to be nice to everyone ? JI7 May 2013 #119

It depends. If they're doing it narcissistically -- in order to make their kids perform -- pnwmom May 2013 #124

More recently there was baby Storm. Quantess May 2013 #89

Here's a youtube of the boy being coached by Beck pnwmom May 2013 #114

I think the real question is: will he grow up to beat women, or be beaten by them? Dreamer Tatum May 2013 #131

Humans are funny creatures... nomorenomore08 May 2013 #121

i think some of the reactions are worse JI7 May 2013 #127

They're certainly nowhere near as bad as a lot of parents. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #128

Yeah, just have weird views on shit... snooper2 May 2013 #162

Yeah, weird. But not so awful in the grand scheme of things. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #168

I think you're misunderstanding people's objections here. pnwmom May 2013 #148

most kids that young wear what their parents want them to JI7 May 2013 #153

This isn't about his clothes or his toys! pnwmom May 2013 #155

They encouraged him to hide his masculinity? That's not neutral. KentuckyWoman May 2013 #135

I did find that implication somewhat troubling. Although at least they're letting him "be a boy" nomorenomore08 May 2013 #136

People are so freakin' weird about gender. Obsessive even. nt Lex May 2013 #137

My company does fantasy makeup and facepainting... Demo_Chris May 2013 #164

interesting... marions ghost May 2013 #194

Were the parents gender neutral as well? marshall May 2013 #166

It's not cross-dressing marions ghost May 2013 #188

The kneejerking response to this story is so VERY revealing. redqueen May 2013 #192

It is.... marions ghost May 2013 #193

The photo shows the child wearing a tutu and beads marshall May 2013 #195

They said when he went out the kid was dressed gender neutral--pants and shirts marions ghost May 2013 #198

I was referring to the parents when I mention cross-dressing marshall May 2013 #200

I think you missed the point marions ghost May 2013 #201

Maybe they will write a book marshall May 2013 #202

Yeah reasonable questions marions ghost May 2013 #203

Stupid parents LittleBlue May 2013 #169

Ok, it's the Sun. But I don't see anything 'gender neutral' portrayed here War Horse May 2013 #184

I'm confused about the point. LWolf May 2013 #197

Read the story marions ghost May 2013 #199