General Discussion

pipoman

(16,038 posts)

306. Being able to discern

Fri May 3, 2013, 11:26 PM

May 2013

a civil libertarian point of view from a rethug point of view..so interesting considering that I've known many civil liberties advocates and have never met a conservative one..You do know that there are more kids killed through ATV accidents than gun accidents? There are links in this thread if you dare..More kids die in ATV accidents yet there are like hundreds of millions less ATVs than guns. ATVs are marketed to kids all the time. Tens of millions of people in this country shoot for recreation. This is just ATVs. There are many recreational activities which sometimes result in accidental death..skiing (water and snow), all sorts of motorized racing, contact sports, swimming, ect. ect...kids do all of these things and they shoot recreationally too.

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Guns should not be manufactured and marketed for children, period. Period. [View all] Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 OP

completely agree - the 2a'ers have just lost touch with reality DrDan May 2013 #1

There have been youth guns available for decades pipoman May 2013 #120

You're asking if I would I give my five year old her own ATV? Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #128

no I don't DrDan May 2013 #133

Are you trying to compare a gun an ATV? Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #149

ATV's are toys? pipoman May 2013 #219

Yup,...so are these... Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #221

Then I guess by your definition, yes.. pipoman May 2013 #222

gun advocates often compare cars to guns in terms of deadliness CreekDog May 2013 #284

You must be mistaken.. pipoman May 2013 #285

whatever your previous role, you aren't the authority on what I can refer to here CreekDog May 2013 #286

Have you been drinking sir? pipoman May 2013 #287

the comparison is apt because you made reference to ATV's CreekDog May 2013 #288

Being able to discern pipoman May 2013 #306

The girl driving the ATV in the photo can get her brother killed -- just as dead as with a gun OmahaBlueDog May 2013 #293

Were you ever a kid? Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #294

Yes I was a kid. Yes I rode a bike with no helmet, climbed a tree, and did a variety of other stuff OmahaBlueDog May 2013 #296

Looks to me like they are just POSING on it... Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #297

I don't know many kids who were "given" anything more powerful than a BB gun to use unsupervised OmahaBlueDog May 2013 #300

I've seen father-son hunting trips treated like father-son fishing trips... Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #301

That's a bad thing if it means large quantities of beer are being consumed OmahaBlueDog May 2013 #302

Especially if dad took away the tractor. Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #305

You are finally getting it.. pipoman May 2013 #309

LOL!! Oh sure! And the first time you send him to bed... Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #310

That's what I thought.. pipoman May 2013 #312

what's the rate of fire on that quad? frylock May 2013 #172

About 150 kids per year... pipoman May 2013 #227

we should probably heavily regulate those frylock May 2013 #232

They Could Get Some Nasty Scrapes & Bruises From That Thing SoCalMusicLover May 2013 #182

ATVs kill about 150 kids per year. Drownings kills 800. Gun accidents kill 80 hack89 May 2013 #191

87% of total gun deaths, 23 industrialized nations, children under 15 Progressive dog May 2013 #195

Don't change the subject hack89 May 2013 #201

I think I hear your guns calling, shouldn't you Progressive dog May 2013 #203

Peril? You shitting me? hack89 May 2013 #204

Scared you though Progressive dog May 2013 #209

Scared me? hack89 May 2013 #213

Inanimate lumps of stell that are used to kill Progressive dog May 2013 #217

Mine must be defective hack89 May 2013 #218

LOL!! ailsagirl May 2013 #236

You've been off topic for a while Progressive dog May 2013 #240

I didn't bring up the issue of ATVs hack89 May 2013 #244

Oh there's another hack89 who did in post 182 Progressive dog May 2013 #245

I posted hard numbers comparing accidental deaths between ATVs and guns among children. hack89 May 2013 #246

And then denied doing it, commonly called lying Progressive dog May 2013 #247

Show me where I denied posting hard numbers hack89 May 2013 #248

Hack89 with another oh so clever change of subject-Lying yet again Progressive dog May 2013 #249

I didn't bring up ATVs - did you read the post I was replying to? hack89 May 2013 #250

You accused me of bringing up ATV's, that makes you a liar Progressive dog May 2013 #252

No - I was referring to my reply to SoCalMusicLover. Sorry for any confusion. nt hack89 May 2013 #253

Way to mix intentional criminal acts with accidental deaths to defend your leaking position. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #234

Way to write gibberish Progressive dog May 2013 #241

I didn't really expect you to understand it. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #257

So I met your expectations Progressive dog May 2013 #259

If you did, you wouldn't have tried to compare all gun-related deaths of children AtheistCrusader May 2013 #261

Now I really get to meet your expectations Progressive dog May 2013 #264

You don't seem to be reading what I wrote. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #266

So your buddy brings in unrelated stuff and no one else can do that Progressive dog May 2013 #272

Why is it not relevant? AtheistCrusader May 2013 #274

You told me it wasn't and now it is Progressive dog May 2013 #276

Thank you for insulting me. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #277

You don't get it Progressive dog May 2013 #279

ATV's are regulated. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #280

I thought you didn't get it, now I know you didn't Progressive dog May 2013 #290

Given the contents of this thread, and who said what, you make no sense. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #291

The truly telling part of those numbers is.. pipoman May 2013 #228

Yeah..scrapes and bruises.. pipoman May 2013 #220

The Crickett rifle is a single-shot .22 bolt action. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #233

2a'ers kardonb May 2013 #146

I agree to a point.. pipoman May 2013 #223

yes if the allow their kids unsupervised access to guns. loli phabay May 2013 #251

Why do we need 10 different threads on this topic. Travis_0004 May 2013 #2

+1! Hangingon May 2013 #5

You're more than welcome to embrace the Trash Thread button if it so offends your sensibilities. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #6

Hell, he can trash by keyword if he needs to. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #105

How do you do that? nt raccoon May 2013 #112

Ha!~ I had to go look, since I've never actually done it. Here you go: Warren DeMontague May 2013 #139

Thank you! nt raccoon May 2013 #142

It does not help. I try to avoid these threads but they are everywhere nt Mojorabbit May 2013 #151

If you don't like them, why do you post in them? longship May 2013 #304

I get sucked in sometimes and mostly regret it! :) nt Mojorabbit May 2013 #311

but that would rob them of the opportunity to post in a thread they don't give a shit about frylock May 2013 #173

Because some may have missed the other nine. TheCowsCameHome May 2013 #8

This. Control-Z May 2013 #14

It brings out the gun nuts Progressive dog May 2013 #11

Didn't realize you were in charge. Kingofalldems May 2013 #13

self-delete TheCowsCameHome May 2013 #15

BEcause this country has fucking lost its mind and needs to be corrected. morningfog May 2013 #67

Because, like every other hot current issue this deserves to be discussed liberal N proud May 2013 #85

There can never timdog44 May 2013 #136

You're right. 10 isn't enough Renew Deal May 2013 #138

Agree completely. Of course, ads for the mature gun crowd are kind of sick too. Hoyt May 2013 #3

Yep. Definately geared for the dick compensater crowd. Arctic Dave May 2013 #7

Any more predictable, cliched insults you'd like to toss out? Lizzie Poppet May 2013 #30

Cliche? Arctic Dave May 2013 #62

Heh heh Orrex May 2013 #131

Those ads make it kind of obvious don't they. Crunchy Frog May 2013 #42

Oooooooooh, premium May 2013 #9

When I was in boot camp timdog44 May 2013 #57

I'm not sure "mature" is the target audience... Scootaloo May 2013 #177

You have to be a special kind of deranged to give your child a lethal weapon Arctic Dave May 2013 #4

All three of my sons started shooting at age 10. oneshooter May 2013 #12

Did you buy your kid a little powder blue Control-Z May 2013 #16

I got my first .22 at age twelve. Arctic Dave May 2013 #19

Where did you get 4 years old out of his post? ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #26

My guess is the poster is referring to this story: blue neen May 2013 #33

The Perfesser doesn't bother to actually read links in posts. baldguy May 2013 #34

The wording was ambiguous ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #84

These OPs are part of the 5year old who killed his sister Arctic Dave May 2013 #64

You should take your anti gun glasses off, and read again. n/t oneshooter May 2013 #27

I know an 8 year old little girl who got a pink 22 from the Easter Bunny, blue neen May 2013 #31

Did you give them their own gun at 10? treestar May 2013 #109

You really need to read carefully. oneshooter May 2013 #115

The poster says they started shooting at 10 treestar May 2013 #116

My sons trained with the same 22 rifle I recieved when I was 10. A Remington Nylon bolt action. oneshooter May 2013 #119

You or some family member may be deranged...can you pass a mental health check? Sancho May 2013 #129

YAAAY! snort May 2013 #188

My daughters started shooting at an early age ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #21

I stand by my remarks. Arctic Dave May 2013 #22

Actually if you are training them properly, it would be ranged ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #23

Post removed Post removed May 2013 #169

My daughters are yet to kill anyone they should not have ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #194

And I stand by your right to say so, even if you sound like an asshole saying it. oneshooter May 2013 #29

Golly! Orrex May 2013 #39

"But specifically marketing a gun specifically for children? That's sick." Progressive dog May 2013 #10

Why? Legal activity done under close adult supervision should be fine ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #25

I agree! This is beyond f***ed up. I really don't understand the gun nut mentality. smirkymonkey May 2013 #190

I find these complaints incomprehensible as well ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #197

I guess I just don't get it. It is not part of my culture and it never will be. smirkymonkey May 2013 #206

Its not the guns, its the stupid ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #211

Define what you mean by children in your screed... ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #17

I would think that for a hunting shotgun.... Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #86

Shorter LOP is not a big deal. I know many women who prefer that as well ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #92

Well good for her. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #98

She preferred traditional walnut furniture with basic black ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #124

It is amusing to me what is and isn't acceptable to market towards kids. Arcanetrance May 2013 #18

To be just like good ole dad. Hoyt May 2013 #35

elimination of life is not their sole purpose. aikoaiko May 2013 #38

Really cause I can't think of any other purpose for them Arcanetrance May 2013 #41

Target shooting, recreational and competitive. aikoaiko May 2013 #44

Forgive me I don't find guns fun having had one pointed at me Arcanetrance May 2013 #51

Our experiences do shape our attitudes. aikoaiko May 2013 #54

I have had them pointed at me off and on for 30years. oneshooter May 2013 #60

I take it you do something for a living where that's a possible part of the job Arcanetrance May 2013 #61

US Marine 1970-78 oneshooter May 2013 #63

While I admire your courage you had training for this the risks were known Arcanetrance May 2013 #73

I wouldn't brag about being a merc MattBaggins May 2013 #147

I really don't give a damn what they think. I have been "retired" now for 10 years. oneshooter May 2013 #175

You have a narrow outlook based on one incident... Eleanors38 May 2013 #153

How about having them take up archery? smirkymonkey May 2013 #192

I like archery, but you do know that an arrow can kill too, don't you? aikoaiko May 2013 #198

Not quite as lethal as a gun. And most people who are Archers are not carrying them smirkymonkey May 2013 #208

I agree, but the level of supervision needs to be almost the same, IMO. aikoaiko May 2013 #212

The problem is thinking -- good luck with that!! nt CokeMachine May 2013 #88

elimination of life is their sole purpose DrDan May 2013 #77

Its like a mantra for you people. aikoaiko May 2013 #80

They have to go with what they have -- nt CokeMachine May 2013 #89

the truth is the truth regardless of how communicated DrDan May 2013 #107

"sole purpose" does not mean what you think it means aikoaiko May 2013 #121

oh I think it probably does DrDan May 2013 #132

so guns were originally designed and manufactured to shoot at paper targets? frylock May 2013 #174

"originally designed" =/= "sole purpose" aikoaiko May 2013 #179

no, i mean ORIGINALLY originally frylock May 2013 #183

Maybe entertainment. I understand that celebretory fireworks predated martial fireworks. aikoaiko May 2013 #199

clearly target shooting was so popular they had to make an ammendment to the constitution frylock May 2013 #200

Among other reasons. aikoaiko May 2013 #202

Sorry. Your chant is wrong again. Eleanors38 May 2013 #154

I shall stand by it DrDan May 2013 #163

Go ahead. It's still wrong. Eleanors38 May 2013 #178

NRA shouldn't market gun courses for 4 year olds either HockeyMom May 2013 #20

They don't market gun courses for 4 year olds ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #28

And it teaches kids to do three things if they come across a firearm lying around. TheMightyFavog May 2013 #45

You forgot "Leave the room". n/t oneshooter May 2013 #50

Except kids like to emulate good ole dad, the gun cultist. Hoyt May 2013 #66

The OP story shows how that works Progressive dog May 2013 #94

This only makes sense to young ones if their parents are compliant LeftInTX May 2013 #157

A 4 or 5 year old is far from a "youth" HockeyMom May 2013 #69

I asked that very question about the OP, what did he mean by children ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #78

My boys were each 18 before they had their own guns rl6214 May 2013 #24

This Crickett line, the Hello Kitty AK47s, etc., are proof that... OneGrassRoot May 2013 #32

+1000 baldguy May 2013 #36

+1 SunSeeker May 2013 #53

"Reasonable gun safety measures" MattBaggins May 2013 #148

Yes, words do matter, but in this context... OneGrassRoot May 2013 #164

I agree but it is bigger than that MattBaggins May 2013 #166

I'll try to be more mindful of that. OneGrassRoot May 2013 #170

Gun sales increased after bans were proposed. Nt Eleanors38 May 2013 #155

By whom? OneGrassRoot May 2013 #160

Renewal and widening the AWB by Diane Feinstein and many others... Eleanors38 May 2013 #180

I generally agree that 4 - 5 is too young, but I'm not going to get hysterical about it. aikoaiko May 2013 #37

The parent is ultimately in charge...in an ideal world. blue neen May 2013 #40

Its a really small rifle. Cricketts are small. Its a fine name. aikoaiko May 2013 #52

Children are small. "Cricketts" kill small children. blue neen May 2013 #56

And, yet, here we are. aikoaiko May 2013 #58

That's correct, because it's not practical---it's all about the economics. blue neen May 2013 #59

Exactly !! lunasun May 2013 #103

Ditto marions ghost May 2013 #162

Well, that's stupid. morningfog May 2013 #68

More high-minded commentary from the OMGGUNSWTFBBQ club. aikoaiko May 2013 #74

And even that is more consideration than your ilk deserve. morningfog May 2013 #82

I'm sure that is the best you can do considering aikoaiko May 2013 #83

I think the fog is lasting longer tonight. nt CokeMachine May 2013 #90

You must be very young... kappa maki May 2013 #43

Umm, high capacity mags on civvie rifles weren't exactly a thing fifty years ago. TheMightyFavog May 2013 #46

Uh, no. Guns are not the same as they were 50 years ago. blue neen May 2013 #49

I can't think of an advance in civilian firearms since the early 60s Recursion May 2013 #113

Glad that this is no longer the norm. Previous generations did a lot of stupid shit. morningfog May 2013 #71

Cap guns and BB guns don't usually kill human beings. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #102

Did you read all my post?...where I talked about the "real" guns we took to school? kappa maki May 2013 #189

Because, like it or not, guns account for the overwhelming majority of homicides in this country. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #256

Your post highlights a fundamental viewpoint difference between gun owners and non gun owners Xithras May 2013 #47

So, Bushmaster .223=Socket Wrench? blue neen May 2013 #55

Gun owners kill lots of people. morningfog May 2013 #72

So do car owners. oneshooter May 2013 #95

Cars =/= Guns Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #99

Did I say that? Or are you projecting again. oneshooter May 2013 #118

You pretty much did. nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #184

So you deny that people are killed by cars? oneshooter May 2013 #210

I deny that cars are an instrument specifically designed to kill/injure or simulate killing/injuring Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #255

But you do agree that cars, despite what they are built for, kill people. oneshooter May 2013 #298

Cars are not designed as weapons and are rarely used as such. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #307

Ah, the car argument is one of the cutest! morningfog May 2013 #100

Tough to beat bathtub falls and swimming pool drowings, though. TheCowsCameHome May 2013 #111

don't forget hammers! CTyankee May 2013 #114

Hand grenades are tools too. Crunchy Frog May 2013 #110

Great stuff. Can you tell us how many 5 yr olds kill 2 yr olds with their very own jmg257 May 2013 #135

I'll just leave this here newmember May 2013 #48

Just watched "Shane" the other day. It's sort of an explanation for how youngsters get so SleeplessinSoCal May 2013 #65

Can anyone guess what this rifle is ? newmember May 2013 #70

Sorry but that gun is in no way marketed to children. (It's a HK 416 btw) justanidea May 2013 #75

Whether that particular rifle is or just a conversion kit for a AR15 is... newmember May 2013 #79

I know it's a .22 justanidea May 2013 #140

The Cliff Notes version of this thread: justanidea May 2013 #76

Four year olds, Dude. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #81

LOL SunSeeker May 2013 #143

I'm against commercial ads generally... Deep13 May 2013 #87

I'm perfectly fine with such hunting shotguns for adults and even teenagers. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #93

Why just hunting. Deep13 May 2013 #97

Target and skeet shooting are fine too, I guess. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #101

I missed the 4-5 year old thing in your post. CokeMachine May 2013 #91

A five year old boy shot his 2 year old sister. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #96

*shut up* don't talk about Happy Meals. flvegan May 2013 #104

I don't get it. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #106

So true treestar May 2013 #108

No, they don't. beevul May 2013 #181

It is a gun which fits a child. pipoman May 2013 #117

Therein lies the problem. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #122

Not things which pipoman May 2013 #126

"full size hunting shotgun." That's the problem... Eleanors38 May 2013 #161

Prohibition on marketing firearms to children by gun manufacturers. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #289

Problem: When Field & Stream and shooting magazines Eleanors38 May 2013 #308

We'd be talking about marketing and advertising, not seemingly objective journalistic articles. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #314

I understand the parameters of commercial vs free speech... Eleanors38 May 2013 #315

These weapons are weapons such as the Crickett. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #316

My hunting buddy got a Cricket for his son (now in mid-school) Eleanors38 May 2013 #317

"It is in fact made for kids" Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #318

I understand it and I don't care for it cali May 2013 #123

Like I said, it's one thing for someone to take their kid along with them hunting. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #125

Fishing is an excellent suggestion. No kid ever killed his sister with a fishing pole. SunSeeker May 2013 #145

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, premium May 2013 #150

Some of my fondest memories are fishing with my dad. SunSeeker May 2013 #152

I have fond memories also of fishing with my dad, premium May 2013 #156

Beautiful. I'm sure you would have hugely enjoyed doing anything with your dad there. nt SunSeeker May 2013 #158

Thank you. premium May 2013 #159

I understand the alure of motocross too pipoman May 2013 #127

I'm personally fine with the goverment regulating it. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #130

I completely agree. I have a dear young friend who's a quad because cali May 2013 #134

So you advocate the state killing parents of a minor, with a "trial" first? oneshooter May 2013 #176

didn't mean to advocate killing parents cali May 2013 #186

LMAO I don't blame you for editing your post. Skeeter Barnes May 2013 #187

Editing your post was kinda cowardly. If you say it then stand by it. oneshooter May 2013 #215

look, anyone who knows me and that includes here, knows I'm adamently against the dp cali May 2013 #238

AAAW She called me "sweetie". oneshooter May 2013 #299

Really? "they should be tried and killed for negligent homicide if a kid kills someone with it." friendly_iconoclast May 2013 #231

disturbing Skeeter Barnes May 2013 #185

Would you give your 5yr. Old a Car and the Keys???? DreamSmoker May 2013 #137

Do these children have gun permits??? Walk away May 2013 #141

What "gun permits"? oneshooter May 2013 #216

forewarning... I'm old formernaderite May 2013 #144

It's early brainwashing malaise May 2013 #165

We've come a long way from playing cowboys and indians. L0oniX May 2013 #167

What about violent video games? alp227 May 2013 #168

How are kids supposed to learn to violently overthrow their democratically elected government... harmonicon May 2013 #171

I can't even believe that anybody is even defending this shit. smirkymonkey May 2013 #193

Ahhh the joys of cloistered life ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #196

Sorry, I'm just a city girl at heart. smirkymonkey May 2013 #205

Says one of the chair-bound who pickets the forum 24/7 to keep the gun grabbers in check Kolesar May 2013 #207

It keeps me busy between chemo sessions ProgressiveProfessor May 2013 #214

Agreed. Apophis May 2013 #224

Lawrence O'Donnell is slaughtering this company. BVictor1 May 2013 #225

THAT was a masterpiece! "Legalized child pornography", for sure. bullwinkle428 May 2013 #226

We need to stop this insanity Politicalboi May 2013 #229

Ok, it's not for you. Fine. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #230

I honestly don't care what you personally find interesting or not. Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #242

It actually IS a cultural element. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #258

I read this and was horrified DissidentVoice May 2013 #235

I got my first air rifle at six years old. I started learning to shoot at nine Nanjing to Seoul May 2013 #237

Simple: My kids are forbidden from playing with any child who owns or has access to guns alcibiades_mystery May 2013 #239

Could not agree more. Sick indeed. nt DLevine May 2013 #243

Manufacturing and marketing guns to children marions ghost May 2013 #254

Kids can't purchase them, 'Period'. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #260

Marketing is aimed at kids (& parents) marions ghost May 2013 #262

Actually, the social 'approval' was already there. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #263

Cultural diversity marions ghost May 2013 #267

The image in the OP suggests a hunting/sporting purpose. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #270

The coroner should know... marions ghost May 2013 #273

Totally fair point. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #275

Maybe because this carnage has been going on so long marions ghost May 2013 #278

From all sources, that is true, kids do get killed a lot. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #281

So guns are fine for young kids marions ghost May 2013 #282

WIth appropriate adult supervision, I think so. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #283

Yep. premium May 2013 #268

At that age, 4 yo, premium May 2013 #265

Yes they should be charged marions ghost May 2013 #269

Agreed. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #271

No! No! I want an Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle! OmahaBlueDog May 2013 #292

Very funny movie ailsagirl May 2013 #295

Guns and Viagra Aerows May 2013 #303

The arguments in this thread FlaGranny May 2013 #313