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In reply to the discussion: My sis found this on FB: "Now that the Dow is at an all time high ... [View all]dkf
(37,305 posts)69. If you think the market has no effect on a pension you are grossly deceived.
The market enables full payment of a pension.
Here:
Although Congress waived compliance with new pension rules this year, the law will eventually take effect, and will force employers to cover these pension gaps. Rather than clean up their act, more and more employers are looking for the exit. By April of this year nearly a third of Americas largest companies had frozen their pension plans.
Many others are invoking the nuclear option, declaring bankruptcy as a way to unload their pension plans on the taxpayers. Unfortunately, the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC), established in 1975 to backstop private sector pensions, is already reeling from a decade of high-profile and expensive pension defaults at companies like United Airlines and steelmaker LTV.
Nine of the 10 largest pension defaults in history occurred since 2000, leaving the PBGC with a deficit of $11 billion at the end of 2008. That gap could swell to more than $100 billion over the next few years, amounting to a backdoor bailout for big corporations, and a bitter pill for abandoned retirees.
Workers at Republic Steel saw first hand how it works when they had their pensions cut by $1,000 a month in 2002 by the PBGC and then cut again in 2004. Five workers from the Lorain, Ohio, plant committed suicide after the first time their pension was diminished. In the second round of cuts, retirees like Bruce Bostick, former grievance chair for USW Local 1104, saw their retirements fall from $1,047 a month to $125.
The situation for public sector workers isnt much better. Although 80 percent of public employees have traditional pensions, those benefits are now in the cross-hairs of conservative and liberal politicians. Two-thirds of public sector pension plans are underfundedto the tune of $430 billionand state and local budget crises are pitting taxpayers against public employees from California to Maine.
Many others are invoking the nuclear option, declaring bankruptcy as a way to unload their pension plans on the taxpayers. Unfortunately, the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC), established in 1975 to backstop private sector pensions, is already reeling from a decade of high-profile and expensive pension defaults at companies like United Airlines and steelmaker LTV.
Nine of the 10 largest pension defaults in history occurred since 2000, leaving the PBGC with a deficit of $11 billion at the end of 2008. That gap could swell to more than $100 billion over the next few years, amounting to a backdoor bailout for big corporations, and a bitter pill for abandoned retirees.
Workers at Republic Steel saw first hand how it works when they had their pensions cut by $1,000 a month in 2002 by the PBGC and then cut again in 2004. Five workers from the Lorain, Ohio, plant committed suicide after the first time their pension was diminished. In the second round of cuts, retirees like Bruce Bostick, former grievance chair for USW Local 1104, saw their retirements fall from $1,047 a month to $125.
The situation for public sector workers isnt much better. Although 80 percent of public employees have traditional pensions, those benefits are now in the cross-hairs of conservative and liberal politicians. Two-thirds of public sector pension plans are underfundedto the tune of $430 billionand state and local budget crises are pitting taxpayers against public employees from California to Maine.
http://www.labornotes.org/2009/09/pensions-next-casualty-wall-street
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People who didn't like Ronald Reagan should have voted for Jimmy Carter in 1980.
graham4anything
May 2013
#3
Pensions are a rare thing for the baby boomers. Mostly only public employees have them in my
JDPriestly
May 2013
#96
Who are we actually talking about here? Could it be a baby boomer and/or a parent of one?
graham4anything
May 2013
#9
That's what I mean. During the depression seniors DIDN'T nave anything to supplement.
Fuddnik
May 2013
#54
I agree. But for the middle class, it doesn't replace SAVING for retirement.
Honeycombe8
May 2013
#60
You should save. You have to understand that right now, seniors who are saving in
JDPriestly
May 2013
#99
I bought my NJ home for about $160. It skyrocketed to $650 in value, but now about $400
graham4anything
May 2013
#22
Whatever the initial intent, the fact is that many people would have nothing w/o SS.
AnnieK401
May 2013
#21
Let's also not forget that millions wouldn't have enuf to live on w/o 401ks and pensions.
Honeycombe8
May 2013
#49
You are capable of being coherent, you slip up every once in a while and make sense
Fumesucker
May 2013
#8
This still doesn't relate to the OP. We're talking about the Dow and the con of "trickle"
Squinch
May 2013
#13
NO, you did not take less pay unless you only took the job for the healthcare.
graham4anything
May 2013
#24
Who is talking retirement money? I am talking 20-70 year olds working for today's doctor bills
graham4anything
May 2013
#61
I am talking about health insurance NOW.You are talking 50 years from now.
graham4anything
May 2013
#109
But those other people aren't better off if the middle class people with pension funds
treestar
May 2013
#40
Your chart doesn't say how many workers had, or had access to, 401ks and pensions.
Honeycombe8
May 2013
#46
"The market" has exactly zero affect on a pension, other than the "health" of the fund.
Thor_MN
May 2013
#20
disuptive only to an echo chamber. Conversation is never disruptive if one wants to converse.
graham4anything
May 2013
#33
people do still have pensions - thanks to our union we still have a pension
leftyohiolib
May 2013
#44
Those who are left will be in excellent shape and with their nice pensions will be happy as clams.
dkf
May 2013
#77
For a short time. Until the Wall Street gamers decide to take their profits and clean the accounts
JDPriestly
May 2013
#95
True. Some people who got laid off also lost their 401ks during the recession.
Honeycombe8
May 2013
#51
I think this quote is dead right and doesn't suggest anything more than it says.
mountain grammy
May 2013
#53
Most people's 401Ks would only last a year (maybe two) without Social Security.
reformist2
May 2013
#66
So what's the name of this bubble? They seem only to get named after they burst.
rhett o rick
May 2013
#90