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Major Nikon

(36,925 posts)
142. Your CDC link doesn't refute what I said
Tue Feb 7, 2012, 07:19 PM
Feb 2012
The "raw milk has beneficial bacteria...." assertion has no scientific basis.


The link you provided only talks about nutrients and enzymes which aren't the same as bacteria, and if you read your own link the CDC even acknowledges that some enzymes and nutrients are degraded through pasteurization. Personally I'm not going to make the case that raw milk is significantly more healthy than pasteurized milk. Some people do believe this and there's ample evidence out there to make their case, but regardless pasteurized milk is still a very nutritional food.

The next thing you need to realize about the CDC and the FDA is they are highly biased on the side of big agra and have been for many years. John Sheehan, head of the FDA's dairy division was a manager for the dairy industry for 17 years before he started working for the FDA. His work and the work of his minions is mostly where this misinformation comes from. So your source is not exactly objective and some of the so-called facts they list on your link have been well debunked.

And it is way safer than raw milk. There is just no comparison.


If you're trying to make the case that raw milk is somehow unsafe, good luck. Certainly if the CDC and/or FDA is your only source of information, I can understand why you'd believe as much. Personally I take the civil libertarian viewpoint. If raw milk is not a hazard, it should be available to those who want it, period end of discussion. It doesn't matter if it is or isn't more healthy. It doesn't matter if it does or doesn't make people sick. I'm not convinced raw milk is a greater hazard than a lot of other food products on the market. Furthermore the nature of raw milk and shorter shelf life dictates that it can't be distributed in mass quantities across great distances the way that pasteurized milk can. Therefore whatever risk does exist is limited to small areas and small groups of people. Compare this the way that pasteurized milk and other products like meat and vegetables are distributed and it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out that if something does go wrong (and eventually it does), you are putting tens of thousands of people at risk.

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Sounds like the taste of freedom to me MrScorpio Feb 2012 #1
LOL zinnisking Feb 2012 #21
Some people never seem to learn. RC Feb 2012 #2
But, but I should be free....to ignore all scientific evidence! nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #3
and how many people get ill or die from big farm food? Properly handled raw milk Hestia Feb 2012 #4
Prove it Warpy Feb 2012 #5
EXACTLY! If you've ever been in a dariy barn HillWilliam Feb 2012 #9
Uh, milking machines? moriah Feb 2012 #95
It is impossible to sterilize a cow's udder and milking machines aren't sterilized either. yellowcanine Feb 2012 #135
It's ridiculously simple to prove Major Nikon Feb 2012 #10
Louis Pasteur was a pathetic imposter. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #16
Louis Pasteur developed the process for wine and beer Major Nikon Feb 2012 #40
The vaccination process was created for smallpox. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #41
Staying on topic is too difficult for some I guess Major Nikon Feb 2012 #45
I thought you changed it to original use of processes. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #47
The CDC disagrees with the notion of "competitive exclusion" and raw milk yellowcanine Feb 2012 #137
I grew up on my best friend's dairy blueamy66 Feb 2012 #23
I don't agree with you often Aerows Feb 2012 #30
thanks blueamy66 Feb 2012 #60
they say smoking is bad for you Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #33
so, you are comparing smoking cigarettes with blueamy66 Feb 2012 #61
I'm just showing the usefulness of anecdotes. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #63
oh please blueamy66 Feb 2012 #91
Yes, you are wrong. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #108
Is the fact that the CDC says that ZERO people have died in the last ten years from raw milk proof? renie408 Feb 2012 #80
That only proves we have antibiotics. Warpy Feb 2012 #123
Didn't seem to help the 3 people who died in 2007 from drinking pasteurized milk Major Nikon Feb 2012 #129
LOL! flvegan Feb 2012 #11
I live in the sticks Aerows Feb 2012 #31
Louis Pasteur was in the pocket of Big Farm from day one. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #18
Oh my, that foreign country France considers pasteurized cheeses almost a sacrilege. tabatha Feb 2012 #6
Grass-fed, antibiotic/hormone/grain/soy free cows are a wonderful thing. drokhole Feb 2012 #7
Oh my, that foreign country France also believes in government inspections jmowreader Feb 2012 #15
Louis Pasteur was a pathetic imposter. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #17
Cheese is safer than the raw milk it's made from mainer Feb 2012 #34
Cheese would be safer than milk Nikia Feb 2012 #77
Wow, it didn't take the pro-disease lobby long to show up. LeftyMom Feb 2012 #8
Another "pasteurized milk" incident Major Nikon Feb 2012 #12
you do realize that pasteurization would have Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #19
How can pasteurization prevent pathogen growth after pasteurization? Major Nikon Feb 2012 #37
Well if you have a contaminated valve that is located after the paseurization Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #39
Exactly Major Nikon Feb 2012 #42
But pasteurization after this contamination would have fixed this problem. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #46
So are you saying the milk should be pasteurized twice? Major Nikon Feb 2012 #51
It's very much like improperly prepared vaccines where the virus is left alive. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #52
You do realize that pasteurization is not the same as sterilization, yes? Major Nikon Feb 2012 #56
Quite aware. You do realize that vaccines aren't sterilized either, right? nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #57
It is unlikely that there would be post pasteurization contamination Nikia Feb 2012 #74
Unlikely, yes. Does it happen, yes. Major Nikon Feb 2012 #93
Pasteurized milk is still a medium for bacterial growth so it has to be packaged and handled yellowcanine Feb 2012 #138
Your CDC link doesn't refute what I said Major Nikon Feb 2012 #142
Actually it does. And as for "it should be available to those who want it" ok but not for children yellowcanine Feb 2012 #146
Please Major Nikon Feb 2012 #147
Raw milk makes few people sick because not that many people drink raw milk. yellowcanine Feb 2012 #149
Exactly! Major Nikon Feb 2012 #152
So how many sick or dead children is ok to risk just so a few can have raw milk? yellowcanine Feb 2012 #153
Yes it's always about the kids, isn't it? Major Nikon Feb 2012 #157
Yes it is about the kids because adults are making choices for them which put them at risk. A civil yellowcanine Feb 2012 #160
I don't think you understand what an emotion based argument is Major Nikon Feb 2012 #161
I would point out that you brought up "Its about the kids". So what were you trying to evoke? yellowcanine Feb 2012 #162
Also for restaurants MattBaggins Feb 2012 #155
Tell me more about how sheep's bladders can be employed to prevent earthquakes. LeftyMom Feb 2012 #136
Mobilize the SWAT teams. pa28 Feb 2012 #13
Cow milk (especially raw) is good for calves. That's about it. nt Liquorice Feb 2012 #14
did you grow up on a dairy too? blueamy66 Feb 2012 #24
I did and I drank raw milk also. But I wouldn't dream of buying raw milk and giving it to my child yellowcanine Feb 2012 #151
I agree. blueamy66 Feb 2012 #159
Why am I still unconvinced raw milk is bad for me? zonkers Feb 2012 #20
Because it isn't. terip64 Feb 2012 #26
As for raw milk cheeses MattBaggins Feb 2012 #156
Brucellosis is generally the one you think about with raw milk and cheese... moriah Feb 2012 #22
I have been drinking raw milk for almost ten years... terip64 Feb 2012 #25
Me too Aerows Feb 2012 #28
raw milk cheddar cheese is safe to eat mainer Feb 2012 #105
Stilton is bad then? Aerows Feb 2012 #120
You might want to let it mature a little; same with Wensleydale. FarCenter Feb 2012 #121
LMAO, I guess like this conversation, too Aerows Feb 2012 #128
I grew up drinking raw milk, as did most of our neighbors. Arkansas Granny Feb 2012 #32
we never had any vaccinations growing up Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #35
I smoked for over 30 years and am one of the healthiest people I know. Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #79
You can't get raw milk in stores in most states. I don't think that equating smoking with drinking terip64 Feb 2012 #97
To each his own. "The health benefits are great," until it kills you? Some say it might. Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #131
Hot dogs are one of the deadliest foods Major Nikon Feb 2012 #132
Too true, too true. Everything in moderation, I guess. nt Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #134
The validity of the comparison is that in each case one is taking an unnecessary risk. yellowcanine Feb 2012 #141
The benefits of drinking raw milk are far from few. terip64 Feb 2012 #144
Well for whatever reason people do get sick. It is easy to say, well that farm did not use the yellowcanine Feb 2012 #145
Exactly -- and, if it was legal there would be uniform standards obamanut2012 Feb 2012 #139
I love milk Aerows Feb 2012 #27
it's like the idiotic seatbelt and helmet laws. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #36
Your responses in this thread have nailed it... SidDithers Feb 2012 #50
Thanks. This is one of those topics I'm passionate about. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #53
Where does the passion come from? I am curious because I truly love my raw milk terip64 Feb 2012 #100
You need to supplement the milk with colloidal silver though. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #107
Food is a sensitive subject Aerows Feb 2012 #83
I could not agree more. People don't understand the health benefits that we experience. terip64 Feb 2012 #99
I loved the raw milk I grew up drinking in Missoula, Montana - tasted great - but if that Campylobac LiberalLoner Feb 2012 #29
I used to work in a dairy. MineralMan Feb 2012 #38
I wouldn't risk raw ungulate milk mrs_p Feb 2012 #43
*** cringes *** I was infected with Campylobacter. It was not pretty at all! LynneSin Feb 2012 #44
I got food poisoning from sushi at a mongolian restaurant Aerows Feb 2012 #84
That's what happens when "raw milk" is driven underground. mwooldri Feb 2012 #48
Only 7% of French cheeses are now raw milk. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #49
That's because import rules require it Major Nikon Feb 2012 #54
Nope. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #55
If you're going to try and contradict someone, it might be a good idea to actually do so Major Nikon Feb 2012 #58
I thought you had the ability to click on the hyperlink. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #59
Your link in no way supported your contradiction Major Nikon Feb 2012 #62
Let's go to the link. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #64
When raw milk is against the law, only outlaws will have raw milk. /nt downwardly_mobile Feb 2012 #110
Federal issue MattBaggins Feb 2012 #158
Pick your poisons, choose your battles. morningfog Feb 2012 #65
I like feeling the wind through my hair as I ride my motorcyle. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #67
Who am I to judge? Knock yourself out. morningfog Feb 2012 #69
It's preferable to rely on the expertise and diligence of a smaller number of bottling plants FarCenter Feb 2012 #66
Death rate per year- Raw milk:0, Alcohol: 75,000 renie408 Feb 2012 #68
Do you attribute that to the safety of raw milk or the prevalence of pasteurized milk? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #70
Speaking for myself, I am not here to disparage pasteurization. I am here to defend morningfog Feb 2012 #71
Personal choice, OK. But milk is consumed by children and infants who have no choice. mainer Feb 2012 #86
Again, a slippery slope. renie408 Feb 2012 #87
Should we ban cantaloupe also? Major Nikon Feb 2012 #94
How quickly we forget our medical history mainer Feb 2012 #96
Indeed, you should understand medical history if you really want to understand the problem Major Nikon Feb 2012 #127
Gee, I wonder how many refrigerators people had available in 1938? renie408 Feb 2012 #72
So when scientists credit pasteurization with preventing milkbourne disease Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #73
No, I am sure pasteurization helps to prevent milk borne pathogens. renie408 Feb 2012 #75
So the people in the 30's and 40's didn't know their dairies or Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #76
I have decided that we need to ban motorcycles. People don't NEED to ride motorcycles and they are renie408 Feb 2012 #78
how do motorcyle deaths compare to milkbourne illness before pasteurizaton? nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #81
Ok, let me try this ONE MORE TIME and without assuming that you could infer my meaning. renie408 Feb 2012 #85
"Raw milk produces a minimal amount of illness and no deaths reported in the past decade." Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #88
Ok, so you are going with the 'ignore my point' option... renie408 Feb 2012 #89
Which point was that? nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #90
The one in post #85 that I outlined in detail. You just keep skipping over it. renie408 Feb 2012 #92
Not sure you made a point there, but I'll take a stab at what I think you mean Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #101
Then why didn't you get vaccinated growing up?? renie408 Feb 2012 #103
I've never received a vaccination. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #104
Oh, and my point about refrigeration renie408 Feb 2012 #82
Check this out... terip64 Feb 2012 #102
It's just like how they sold vaccinations to an unsuspecting public. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #106
Yes, there was also the demonization of coconut oil tabatha Feb 2012 #109
Let's step back and look at the numbers... mainer Feb 2012 #98
Yes, lets look at the numbers. tabatha Feb 2012 #112
Wait, you're disputing it because the deaths are from "raw milk cheese" and not "raw milk"? mainer Feb 2012 #114
Have you read the other posts on this thread. tabatha Feb 2012 #115
No, the statement is that SOME raw milk cheeses are OK mainer Feb 2012 #116
So ya think that during aging that things can go awry? tabatha Feb 2012 #117
the point is, the closer to raw milk the product is mainer Feb 2012 #119
But the source did not cause the death. tabatha Feb 2012 #122
To the raw milk supporters in this thread: I DON'T DRINK WITH YOU! downwardly_mobile Feb 2012 #111
Geez, I am a white person that likes listening to authentic African music tabatha Feb 2012 #113
I don't think you actually know what a mudroom is obamanut2012 Feb 2012 #140
One of only TWO raw milk dairies in California mainer Feb 2012 #118
Hey, they have corrected their story. tabatha Feb 2012 #124
20 billion gallons pasteurized milk produced a year mainer Feb 2012 #126
Not being able to detect e coli in samples is not at all unusual. yellowcanine Feb 2012 #150
Despite opposition, N.J. Assembly committee OKs DiMaio bill allowing sale of raw milk FarCenter Feb 2012 #125
All in all, bvar22 Feb 2012 #130
yup zappaman Feb 2012 #133
Bee to the U to the double L SHIT! I am the OP Feb 2012 #143
What would happen if you filtered raw milk KamaAina Feb 2012 #148
I grew up on a dairy Horse with no Name Feb 2012 #154
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