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Occulus

(20,599 posts)
32. That's one reason, yes.
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:53 PM
May 2013

That particular stereotype appears twice, in the first and third quotes. It is particularly odious in the first, in which the teacher- a presumably heterosexual female- assigns an undesired expression of "potential rape" power exerted by the gay passenger against her male student. It is apparent, by her leading, single question, that she directed her student to the conclusion she wanted him to reach: that the gay passenger in the cab was a potentially overpowering figure to her student, physically and sexually.

It reads, to be blunt, like a script.

That's actually a form of not-so-very subtle abuse, to both her student and the absent source of the topic (not to mention, to the reader themselves). It does not address any other possible social or cultural influences regarding homosexuals or homosexual behavior the student may have been exposed to, or any incorrect information or honestly ignorant positions that student may have held, or learned. Essentially, that teacher hear what she wanted to hear: that the male student, exposed to an advance from a gay man, felt the same as a heterosexual woman receiving an unwanted advance from a heterosexual man.

That is vile. It is exactly the sort of absolutely incorrect conflation of behaviors I have long expected from actual homophobes. Gay men do not behave toward women the way misogynistic heterosexual men behave. We just, very simply, do not think that way. Radical feminists will insist that is not true, and we do in fact act like that, but we don't. We simply do not see ourselves as being in any way "better" or "higher on the ladder" than heterosexuals, male or female. We don't hit on random men on the street. We have had that driven home, repeatedly, over and over, for centuries. There is, simply put, no truth at all to the entire idea. We get beaten and killed for that behavior.

In the last quote, the heterosexual man who was the "victim" of a gay male "catcaller" "had to" dive into a Qdoba restaurant to "escape" it. I'm using scare quotes here because I am almost certain this simply never happened, or if it did, the writer left out the part where he said no, and it stopped. We don't do that unless we're comfortable in our surroundings, and unless this happened in the Castro district or Boystown in Chicago or perhaps a few other "big city" places I can name it's simply unbelievable on its face. If we're that comfortable in our surroundings, it's because we're in an area known for a high concentration of homosexuals in the local population. Even the most "out" gay men I know or have met will severely "tone it down" in unfamiliar surroundings.

Heterosexuals who knowingly visit such areas know they're in a "gay part of town", full stop. Tourists not "in the know" learn as much, very quickly (picture a church mom at the Folsom Street Fair. If you want an eyeful, go Google). That whole last quoted section reeks of fiction written around a heterosexual's (perhaps honestly) ignorant conception of how gay men who are comfortable with themselves and their local surroundings behave in public. Maybe (qualifier here used with extreme reservations) it actually did happen, but I have a strong feeling some very pertinent details, place and date chiefest among them, were deliberately left out. Under normal circumstances, we are simply not that bold, and will stop, right away, if asked. Those of us who don't are looked upon by others of us with a lot of scorn. Most of the gay men I know will actually go into "protective buddy" mode once that's made clear to us. Heterosexual women who have visited gay bars will know what I'm getting at here. We usually know almost immediately that our "advances" are unwanted and we will stop, because we don't want to be beaten or killed.

Most of us, the vast majority I've met, are hypersensitive to the fact that our very existence is anathema to some, precisely because we do not know who feels that way about us in a crowd.

I take extreme issue with the article's title itself. That is not and never was any even faintly accurate definition of homophobia. The terms 'homophobe' and 'homophobia' imply a great many nonsexual, but rather social and cultural preconceptions, constructs, laws, memes, perceived behaviors, assumptions, presumptions, and a particularly hateful and bigoted imagining of sexual attraction and focus as a core "goal" that it is astonishing whomever wrote that title could possibly, in 2013, believe it to be anything near an accurate definition. The title itself is one of the very reasons some of us take issue with the term "homosecual" itself, because it places the focus on our sexual behavior, as though it were our all of everything. Furthermore, gay men are not women; a great many of us are far more "manly" or "masculine" than the most laser-straight of heterosexual men (and those straight men who such gay man damned well know it, and we know they know it), and it is only the very most isolated heterosexual, long unexposed to and long isolated from actual homosexuals, who would believe that title's undercurrent of stereotypical, bigoted implication.

This article makes me angry, and in a bunch of ways. I cannot believe it's being accepted and applauded, here on DU, a anything close to truth.

And now I've said more than I meant to say in the first place. Thanks for making me angry enough to rip this to shreds, because I wanted to in the first place. It was cathartic, and after reading this pile of offal, I badly needed to speak my mind.



Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

LOL. bemildred May 2013 #1
A serious graphic look at the issue ("passes", harassment) from another angle: Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #133
I look at it a simpler way: bemildred May 2013 #134
+10.000 smirkymonkey May 2013 #2
and one... nt uriel1972 May 2013 #117
have always believed that KT2000 May 2013 #3
I said this to my Dad once when he was ranting about SharonAnn May 2013 #31
Very true. LuvNewcastle May 2013 #4
Profound. You've hit the nail on the head. Rozlee May 2013 #125
Home Truths, Ma'am The Magistrate May 2013 #5
K&R! sheshe2 May 2013 #6
This is it, EXACTLY!! annabanana May 2013 #7
Rarely is anything stated as perfectly as this! n/t Sekhmets Daughter May 2013 #8
Yep cliffordu May 2013 #9
How many times must this be explained redqueen May 2013 #10
Exactly! FrodosPet May 2013 #68
Dude, I hope you are just being sarcastic dawg May 2013 #138
I wish I was being sarcastic FrodosPet May 2013 #142
Yeah, that's exactly what it says. Sheldon Cooper May 2013 #139
K&R! TeamPooka May 2013 #11
Just perfect. n/t 2theleft May 2013 #12
That is just part of the equation Rain Mcloud May 2013 #13
Question matt819 May 2013 #14
"Homohatred" Behind the Aegis May 2013 #16
I think they do fear them, only because they know the secret. nolabear May 2013 #21
homomisia. plantwomyn May 2013 #127
Overly simplistic, and not all that useful. Behind the Aegis May 2013 #15
But they hate lesbians too, so I'm not sure that's the full explanation. Nye Bevan May 2013 #17
That's interesting, because in my experience, I've observed that one of the most common men's Zorra May 2013 #35
But it's often two women with one guy rather than strictly two women mythology May 2013 #44
Most every woman can rapidly and easily orchestrate a casual sexual encounter with a man 24/7, Zorra May 2013 #137
Not to the same extent, if at all. And if they do, it's because those women aren't Honeycombe8 May 2013 #51
But lesbians don't scare them n/t eridani May 2013 #53
Oh, no: Straight men LOVE lesbians. That's the double standard. lindysalsagal May 2013 #64
I remember them referring to "Ellen Degenerate" when she came out (nt) Nye Bevan May 2013 #121
Indeed. But, from my POV, it is only Zorra May 2013 #136
I stand corrected. n/t. lindysalsagal May 2013 #144
A gender specific defintion of a general word The2ndWheel May 2013 #18
Wish I thought of that. marble falls May 2013 #19
That is a recurrent joke. dipsydoodle May 2013 #20
K&R Jamastiene May 2013 #22
This message was self-deleted by its author YoungDemCA May 2013 #23
Wait a minute. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #30
This article IS homophobia, starting with its title, and including its "point". Occulus May 2013 #24
It doesn't seem to do much to explain female homophobes Major Nikon May 2013 #26
And repeatedly perpetuates gay male stereotypes from the POV of HETEROSEXUALS Occulus May 2013 #27
To whom was he attempting to make a point? plantwomyn May 2013 #126
+1. HiPointDem May 2013 #28
It bothers me too. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #29
That's one reason, yes. Occulus May 2013 #32
Thank you. I better understand where you're coming from. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #33
Well said. The teacher in the article is a bigot pushing vicious myths. The teacher is also someone Bluenorthwest May 2013 #34
Thank you, I very much agree. nt. sibelian May 2013 #36
I knew something wasn't quite right about the OP. You made it clear, thank you. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #38
+1,000 alcibiades_mystery May 2013 #39
As a reaction to offal Half-Century Man May 2013 #46
Great post! DemocratsForProgress May 2013 #65
Thank you so much for contributing to the thread. nt RedCappedBandit May 2013 #105
A very good post---please consider a GD thread? nt msanthrope May 2013 #122
Well said and 100% correct. n/t cherokeeprogressive May 2013 #42
I'm asking you to post it for the education of DU. freshwest May 2013 #109
The author, Andrew Sullivan, is a gay man. A thoughtful homosexual man who writes. nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #124
I have been aware of him for a very long time. Occulus May 2013 #131
Then apply your own reasoning: Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #132
Agreed. This is so laden with politics LittleBlue May 2013 #130
K & R !!! WillyT May 2013 #25
I'm a hetero man who has been hit on by Gay men many, many times. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #37
Same here, some of them are my friends. Rex May 2013 #40
I think there are a whole host of presuppositions in this article that are- at best- just wrong Warren DeMontague May 2013 #41
You make a good point. Are all come-ons threatening? Of course not, nor should they be. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #43
Occulus did a very good job of laying out the problems from a Gay Male perspective upthread. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #45
Gay perspective? Half-Century Man May 2013 #47
I'm not sure where you're getting "we" from. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #48
As in general humanity Half-Century Man May 2013 #50
Andrew Sullivan is also gay BainsBane May 2013 #54
That's probably why he said "A Gay Perspective", not "The". nt Bonobo May 2013 #55
Indeed, on both counts. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #56
How is that even relevant? Behind the Aegis May 2013 #66
It's relevant because it's on his blog BainsBane May 2013 #67
It isn't because Occulus was reacting to the blurb as a gay man. Behind the Aegis May 2013 #70
Why is it homophobic swill? BainsBane May 2013 #71
What the fuck is a "straight" shirt?! Behind the Aegis May 2013 #74
I have long wondered why some things are called phobias BainsBane May 2013 #76
The lanuguage is sometimes created for the need. Behind the Aegis May 2013 #81
"Unsolicited advice" BainsBane May 2013 #82
So answering your post is badgering? How convenient. Behind the Aegis May 2013 #83
expecting me to defend another person's writing BainsBane May 2013 #92
I didn't expect you to defend his writing. Behind the Aegis May 2013 #94
Read the posts above BainsBane May 2013 #97
I am not Occulus. Behind the Aegis May 2013 #99
as for "jumping in this thread" BainsBane May 2013 #100
Word salad. Behind the Aegis May 2013 #101
You wrote BainsBane May 2013 #103
No more games. It takes two to play and this has become quite tedious. Behind the Aegis May 2013 #104
that you consider it is a game is clearly the problem BainsBane May 2013 #113
This message was self-deleted by its author Behind the Aegis May 2013 #115
he's also an asshole warmonger. so you could say this is the asshole warmonger gay persons HiPointDem May 2013 #116
I was hit on Berlin Expat May 2013 #118
I second that. Big deal. bemildred May 2013 #141
There's a problem with this arguement. Locut0s May 2013 #49
"Can I buy you a cup of coffee" = "shooting someone" Bonobo May 2013 #52
Did you really just say that? nomorenomore08 May 2013 #57
Au contraire Bonobo May 2013 #58
But they're not talking about "trying to meet someone" or "a polite self-introduction." nomorenomore08 May 2013 #59
Yes, it would be. Bonobo May 2013 #60
If you're that concerned, you should read the second blog post ("How to Hit on Women"). nomorenomore08 May 2013 #61
I'm not "worried". Bonobo May 2013 #62
Okay, fair enough. Your reaction just seemed like a bit much, is all. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #77
Why fucking worry about it? BainsBane May 2013 #69
It has nothing to do with me. Bonobo May 2013 #72
the problem is BainsBane May 2013 #75
No, that is your projection. Bonobo May 2013 #78
I'm sure I am projecting BainsBane May 2013 #79
Ridiculous mischaracterization R US. Bonobo May 2013 #80
What I want to know is, why do some read "some men are rapists" as "*all* men are rapists"? nomorenomore08 May 2013 #85
I don't. nt Bonobo May 2013 #86
interesting question BainsBane May 2013 #89
Ah! This is the point in the show where you imply Bonobo May 2013 #90
reply #68 includes all straight men in this group sigmasix May 2013 #120
Post #68 is a sarcastic response to another post. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #140
Everyone "projects" in some way. Seems to be an inherent feature of the human psyche. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #84
I do not dispute those facts. Bonobo May 2013 #88
All right. I guess I'll have to take your word for it. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #91
If you are really interested... Bonobo May 2013 #93
First of all, that post is rather vague. Second, it doesn't refer expressly to you. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #107
Plausible deniability. Bonobo May 2013 #108
Okay. You've made your point. I still think you're overreacting. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #110
wtf is your problem Whisp May 2013 #111
BB is the one the came and basically said to me: Bonobo May 2013 #112
In any case, what's a little irritation compared to Bonobo May 2013 #114
I find this post out-of-line and sexist. Would you tolerate your marital status msanthrope May 2013 #123
Thank you. Incredibly myopic and self-centered view of sexism on display. nt Bonobo May 2013 #129
I never thought about it that way before. lindysalsagal May 2013 #63
. blkmusclmachine May 2013 #73
The one point I will concede, is that highly homophobic men do tend to treat women poorly. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #87
That isn't really surprising. Behind the Aegis May 2013 #95
Very true. Some manage to deal reasonably well with human variation, others don't. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #96
Amen to that! Behind the Aegis May 2013 #98
Some people Berlin Expat May 2013 #119
This is funny and scary at the same time. bravenak May 2013 #102
Perceptive, but limited. caseymoz May 2013 #106
No, I think it is the fear that other men LittleBlue May 2013 #128
So it's wrong to talk to someone that you might be sexually interested in? Hippo_Tron May 2013 #135
"As a woman, you learn to live with that from the time you are fourteen ..." Arugula Latte May 2013 #143
Egregious!!! TW1780 Aug 2015 #145
Welcome to DU. I think you missed the point of that article. It was not saying rape=homosexality, bu uppityperson Aug 2015 #146
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