General Discussion

rrneck

(17,671 posts)

165. Ah, another dodge.

Sat May 11, 2013, 05:57 PM

May 2013

Do you have a self defense solution for the disparity of force between an attacker and a defender that does not involve the use of a gun? Or do you plan to blather on about the "odds" again? It's easy to tout "costs and benefits" when you won't be called to account for the failure of your policies. Solve the problem.

I love the way you hide in accusations of "anti intellectualism" after I asserted the value of education. Nice try. What you're really doing is wrapping yourself in a sort of faux intellectualism to avoid dealing with the problem.

Do you have a self defense solution for the disparity of force between an attacker and a defender that does not involve the use of a gun? Do you have a solution, or are you going to make another turn on the catwalk?

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In the last 5 months there have been at least 71 kids killed by guns. Average just under 6 years old [View all] bigtree May 2013 OP

3 kids were killed by lawn darts and they banned them Botany May 2013 #1

unfortunately Duckhunter935 May 2013 #3

You have not read it closely enough. IveWornAHundredPants May 2013 #4

You don't understand it. rl6214 May 2013 #98

These gun nuts have so abused the 2nd amendment it is not funny Botany May 2013 #5

The 2nd was ratified in 1791. The National Guard was formed in 1930. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #243

And is not the national guard a well regulated malitia? Botany May 2013 #247

The Guard occupies a dual role sarisataka May 2013 #248

No, it is not. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #249

2nd Amendment Apologists Roy Rolling May 2013 #8

We've come a long way from quill and parchment since 1776 as well. LAGC May 2013 #10

The main impediment is political, not legal. DanTex May 2013 #12

So you would claim that we can do nothing to keep guns away from 7 year olds? mbperrin May 2013 #182

Absolutely we can do stuff to keep guns away from kids. LAGC May 2013 #198

Well, here are some ideas I've been pushing. I personally think that every round should be marked, mbperrin May 2013 #199

First off.. TnDem May 2013 #202

I mentioned that online sales will probably have to cease. mbperrin May 2013 #217

let me get this straight Duckhunter935 May 2013 #227

No need to take in existing to have it marked. Manufacturers will mark new ammo. mbperrin May 2013 #229

Misunderstanding TnDem May 2013 #237

Apparently you have no idea where west Texas is, where I was raised and live still. mbperrin May 2013 #242

The Obama admin already backed away from shredding military brass AtheistCrusader May 2013 #263

One in the future. mbperrin May 2013 #283

Microstamping shell casing works. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #260

Someday will come faster if we mandate it. mbperrin May 2013 #262

If I could speculate on a solution... AtheistCrusader May 2013 #264

A challenge for others, of course. As a true believer, I don't worry about it. mbperrin May 2013 #284

Add two decimal places. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #258

Nah, that number is too big. mbperrin May 2013 #261

That's just part of the market. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #266

I'm counting on shady people not using their surplus. Gets them into the system faster than it would mbperrin May 2013 #285

And you wonder why getting gun control laws passed in this country is so hard? premium May 2013 #209

Nah, these are my reasonable proposals. mbperrin May 2013 #218

I rest my case. premium May 2013 #220

Ballistic fingerprinting doesn't work. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #245

One's good enough for me. Everyone always says life is priceless, then they back up when it costs mbperrin May 2013 #250

A good way to run out of public resources. AtheistCrusader May 2013 #257

Public resources are where we find them. mbperrin May 2013 #259

I thought universal back ground checks was reasonable BobbyBoring May 2013 #232

Background checks TnDem May 2013 #236

Uh Oh. Big mean DiFi wants to ban assault weapons?!? Meanwhile, in other news.... jmg257 May 2013 #274

Actually, there's a lot we HAVE done, and yes, more we can legally do within the constraints of the AtheistCrusader May 2013 #244

I agree. We have done a lot. mbperrin May 2013 #251

A 1776 musket was state of the art in 1776 rl6214 May 2013 #99

Again, gun nut, that pesky 2nd amendment calls for a well-regulated militia. Where is that again? Nanjing to Seoul May 2013 #16

Do some research rl6214 May 2013 #100

Except it does nothing of the sort. Lizzie Poppet May 2013 #279

However you read it, Constitution does not require gun cultists to arm up & spread their gun love. Hoyt May 2013 #52

I note that gunners like to use the term "pesky." It is not "pesky." CTyankee May 2013 #148

Name calling Duckhunter935 May 2013 #151

It is how I feel about the 2nd A. And, IMO, it has been interpreted in the worst possible CTyankee May 2013 #152

If you say it that way Duckhunter935 May 2013 #156

You probably wouldn't like what regulations Norway has in place, tho. CTyankee May 2013 #163

Would not be my first choice Duckhunter935 May 2013 #164

Well, I am just pointing out the experience of a country that doesn't ban, but heavily CTyankee May 2013 #166

It is also a smaller Duckhunter935 May 2013 #169

"different culture"? Their "gun culture" is different, yes. CTyankee May 2013 #171

I have a set of those, WITH the spikes still on them. JesterCS May 2013 #114

My next door neighbors had them ..... Botany May 2013 #128

It is your perspective... awoke_in_2003 May 2013 #189

Doesn't make any sense does it? Rex May 2013 #158

sacrifices on the alter of 2A KG May 2013 #2

Cars kill a lot more kids than guns. There's about as many cars as gun in the US. marble falls May 2013 #6

But cars also provide immense benefits to society. DanTex May 2013 #7

Well, then, lets have some car control..... marble falls May 2013 #9

We have car control. DanTex May 2013 #11

In 2010, there were an estimated 5,419,000 crashes, killing 32,885 and injuring 2,239,000.[1].... marble falls May 2013 #13

And we have about the same number of gun deaths. DanTex May 2013 #15

Wrong ... marble falls May 2013 #19

Don't get me wrong, but you claim to want Robb May 2013 #25

I want a mandatory national registration for firearms and a mandatory background check for ... marble falls May 2013 #37

how many of those deaths results in a car driven massacre at a school, movie theater Nanjing to Seoul May 2013 #28

You might be sick of it, but the facts remain. I'm plain old sick and tired of the NRA.... marble falls May 2013 #41

LOL. So you're saying 31,000 is not "about the same" as 33,000? Really? DanTex May 2013 #40

Try again: marble falls May 2013 #46

Still dodging! Costs versus benefits. What are the benefits of guns? DanTex May 2013 #47

I want to be sure this is how you are framing the question: marble falls May 2013 #50

Still dodging. What are the benefits of guns to society? DanTex May 2013 #53

You are getting way off the topic. Frankly I don't see all the wonderfull benefits .... marble falls May 2013 #62

No, you are getting off topic. The topic is a cost-benefit analysis of guns in our society. DanTex May 2013 #63

Your inability to deal with the facts is epidomy of the gun nut and the gun ban debate... marble falls May 2013 #67

Yet another dodge. Also, it's spelled "epitome". DanTex May 2013 #68

Correct spelling. The last refuge of someone losing the debate. marble falls May 2013 #72

Dodge. What. Are. The. Benefits? DanTex May 2013 #82

Why are you trying to turn the topic? Which is the children and how we can save them. marble falls May 2013 #144

Post removed Post removed May 2013 #200

You just switched from deaths to injuries. mbperrin May 2013 #184

Go to the links and read them. We both trust the sources I use, right?.... marble falls May 2013 #211

People recover from injuries. Death is final. mbperrin May 2013 #219

Most Americans live all their lives without needing a gun mainer May 2013 #223

Hey, I ride my horse when I have to go into town, premium May 2013 #224

Thank you. mbperrin May 2013 #252

If ONE doesn't matter, than neither do 2.3 million nor 73,505. nt patrice May 2013 #225

I consider crime deterrence and self defense to be benefits. geckosfeet May 2013 #48

Yeah, there're statistics on that too. Progressive dog May 2013 #215

There is a much greater probability that someone in an automobile will be injured in a car accident. AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #222

So what, cars have an actual reason to exist Progressive dog May 2013 #226

Firearms legitimately exist to deter crime, for self-defense, and other purposes. AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #228

That's what we have police for Progressive dog May 2013 #231

The police did their job. They investigated and found that self-defense justified the shooting. AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #239

My choice. geckosfeet May 2013 #230

Yes, 43 TIMES more likely to be hurt or killed by a gun if you have mbperrin May 2013 #253

You are misquoting the Kellerman study. ManiacJoe May 2013 #267

Okay, so 43 times more likely to hurt your family than a criminal. mbperrin May 2013 #286

Still wrong. Read it again. ManiacJoe May 2013 #290

No, anyone shot with your gun in your house is 43 times more likely to be a family member mbperrin May 2013 #291

You need some help with reading comprehension. ManiacJoe May 2013 #292

So yes, having a gun in the house makes it more likely that a family member will be killed mbperrin May 2013 #293

Close, but not quite. ManiacJoe May 2013 #294

Rules are great. Buncha people don't follow them. mbperrin May 2013 #295

These are, of course, benefits. But unfortunately for some, logic is not a strong point. AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #221

The gun nuts wouldn't know what logic is Progressive dog May 2013 #233

For some, logic is not a strong point but name-calling is. AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #241

We do have car control. ForgoTheConsequence May 2013 #140

Oh, so as long as its good for the economy rl6214 May 2013 #101

There are costs and benefits that need to be weighed against each other. DanTex May 2013 #103

Nope, you just don't care about the children rl6214 May 2013 #111

We have car control in fact we have lots of it. Arcanetrance May 2013 #56

And with all that marvolous tech they still kill and injure 2.5 million a year.... marble falls May 2013 #70

Forgive me I'm not trying to call you a liar but I have my doubts that there are as many guns in Arcanetrance May 2013 #74

Wanna bet????? marble falls May 2013 #78

I do apologize if you thought I was calling you a liar. My point wording that is I didn't want Arcanetrance May 2013 #83

Its the same as when gun nuts and gold sellers appeal to the sense ... marble falls May 2013 #88

I have no delusions that every person with a gun is waiting to shoot up children Arcanetrance May 2013 #92

You and I agree pretty much. I never thought of periodic re-registration, but it works for me... marble falls May 2013 #105

Consider this then.... TnDem May 2013 #203

Estimate of firearms in the U.S. premium May 2013 #79

Go to the link. Registered vehicles in the US. Inconvenient fact, eh?.... marble falls May 2013 #87

Re-read what I wrote, premium May 2013 #96

"registered vehicles" out number guns. What's so hard about that?...... marble falls May 2013 #109

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree about the number of households premium May 2013 #116

We agree pretty much. It not that I trust Uncle, I don't trust the kind of .... marble falls May 2013 #120

Now that I agree with premium May 2013 #121

West Texas and I believe Wyoming and Montana have 80+ spd limits rl6214 May 2013 #106

There's a couple sections of I-15 through Utah premium May 2013 #108

There are a few places in west Texas which have a speed limit of 80, and one mbperrin May 2013 #185

I have seen 85 speed limit in Utah. n/t. airplaneman May 2013 #123

But there are still thousands of dead kids per year krispos42 May 2013 #20

Somebody thinks your reply is from the NRA Propaganda 101 book. ~sigh~ NYC_SKP May 2013 #23

And Shotgun Skip, right on cue. Robb May 2013 #29

I never actually bought any guns, Robb. And if you had been paying attention... NYC_SKP May 2013 #32

NRA is that way. Please give my regards to Wayne LaPierre Nanjing to Seoul May 2013 #34

DU is home to many supporters of the RKBA and always will be. We aren't going anywhere. (nt) NYC_SKP May 2013 #36

God forbid someone is your family is a victim of gun violence Nanjing to Seoul May 2013 #38

Someone in my family was a victim of gun violence, premium May 2013 #102

"Its just a tool" ForgoTheConsequence May 2013 #142

I don't care if you think it's bullshit, premium May 2013 #143

Oh yeah? ForgoTheConsequence May 2013 #145

Whatever, premium May 2013 #208

I still don't get this... Pelican May 2013 #201

Same old bullshit. I'm still amazed you didn't get banned Robb May 2013 #60

You were a mod, you should know better. NYC_SKP May 2013 #71

Again, horseshit. Robb May 2013 #90

you should have been banned for posting gun porn in GD less than 48 hours after Newtown CreekDog May 2013 #269

My browser history goes back to August 8th, 2011 krispos42 May 2013 #192

Jury results: NYC_SKP May 2013 #194

Limiting cars to 20 mph would be a huge drain on the economy. DanTex May 2013 #31

It would slow the economy, not end it. NYC_SKP May 2013 #33

It would be a catastrophic disruption, greater than, for example, the financial crisis. DanTex May 2013 #39

Please explain: sarisataka May 2013 #64

Limiting cars to 20 mph would sink the economy. DanTex May 2013 #66

I can see the economy taking a hit sarisataka May 2013 #73

20 mph speed limit would result in severe economic damage. DanTex May 2013 #86

I believe excessive speed is one of sarisataka May 2013 #93

That is true. DanTex May 2013 #95

The cost benefit is near impossible to determine sarisataka May 2013 #104

Well, all cost/benefit analyses are tricky. DanTex May 2013 #107

I think Duckhunter935 May 2013 #81

And thus the false choice you present krispos42 May 2013 #195

Okay, that's funny. nt rrneck May 2013 #43

And yet, like the rest of the NRAers, you have no response. DanTex May 2013 #45

Okay... rrneck May 2013 #49

Is that graph supposed to represent the benefits of guns to society? DanTex May 2013 #51

Are you sure you're on the right board? rrneck May 2013 #54

So you're going to dodge the question about the benefits of guns to society. DanTex May 2013 #57

Hunting and self protection. But what does it matter, things don't have to have a benefit The Straight Story May 2013 #76

Hunting, yes. There's also recreation. Self-protection with a gun is extremely rare. DanTex May 2013 #85

So much bullshit your eyes are brown Uzair May 2013 #160

I apologize rrneck May 2013 #89

More dodging. My guess is, you understand that the costs of guns greatly outweigh the benefits DanTex May 2013 #91

LOL! rrneck May 2013 #94

Dodge again. DanTex May 2013 #97

Practice on those heels before you get on the catwalk. rrneck May 2013 #113

Why the dodging? Why not just answer the question? DanTex May 2013 #115

Hmmm. Ok. I will try to answer The Straight Story May 2013 #135

That's a fair answer. DanTex May 2013 #141

Ok The Straight Story May 2013 #147

OK. DanTex May 2013 #150

Of course you're right there. rrneck May 2013 #149

OK DanTex May 2013 #157

Ah, another dodge. rrneck May 2013 #165

It's clear anti-intellectualism. DanTex May 2013 #176

Ooh. Another turn. Cute. rrneck May 2013 #187

Wow. Yet, there are regulations over cars, registration, licensing, insurance mandates Nanjing to Seoul May 2013 #18

They will now deny NRA talking points exist. Robb May 2013 #24

Found an example of the "mythical" talking points list by the way... Pholus May 2013 #206

Wayne LaPierre also has a book... Pholus May 2013 #207

NO kidding. laundry_queen May 2013 #26

trigger locks, but that's not a standard feature of gun. Also the safety feature Nanjing to Seoul May 2013 #30

not Duckhunter935 May 2013 #84

Those mandates you refer to are generally for public usage, not for ownership... beevul May 2013 #196

What a really dumb comparison. And I am a gun owner. Wow. You do not help. n-t Logical May 2013 #44

Every time the argument about guns vs cars comes up I think that guns were invented to kill (wars), AlinPA May 2013 #168

Well, guns were *invented* to knock down walls Recursion May 2013 #265

So kids killed by guns don't count? mbperrin May 2013 #183

How long would you survive if all guns disappeared right now? Orrex May 2013 #188

How long would I survive if *all* guns (including police) disappeared? Probably not very long Recursion May 2013 #268

Way to miss the point. Orrex May 2013 #272

You have no idea who I am or what my fantasies are Recursion May 2013 #273

I was addressing fantasies commonly articulated by gun advocates. Orrex May 2013 #275

Ah, fair enough, and I grant that Recursion May 2013 #276

The "cars" thing is a pointless deflection. Why would those statistics matter? Dash87 May 2013 #256

we do-it's called regulations sigmasix May 2013 #270

K&R abelenkpe May 2013 #14

Comparing gun deaths to lawn darts, cars, swimming pools et al, is STUPID, and so are gun nuts. mountain grammy May 2013 #17

+1000 GCP May 2013 #21

Post removed Post removed May 2013 #35

An acceptable number to the gunfuckers. Iggo May 2013 #22

wow Abortion bad bad bad but oldandhappy May 2013 #27

So... when the fuck will someone... bobclark86 May 2013 #42

I strongly agree. Lizzie Poppet May 2013 #280

Dia de los Muertos Generic Other May 2013 #55

Well, er, um.... Deep13 May 2013 #58

So tragic. I hate guns. smirkymonkey May 2013 #59

And this is why we need more Stand Your Ground laws. If these kids had been armed.... Bucky May 2013 #61

Piffle. billh58 May 2013 #65

Not one thing about those Folks who had that Gun in hand and pulling the trigger DreamSmoker May 2013 #69

More kids were hurt and killed by fire: marble falls May 2013 #75

never saw a lobby (lobbying) that advocated against fire safety laws bigtree May 2013 #77

As a fire ratedwindow designer(first engineered 1hr rated fire window) and former... marble falls May 2013 #80

The only function of a gun is to kill GCP May 2013 #110

Not true. And are you vegitarian? Do cops carry a gun to kill or intimidate? marble falls May 2013 #112

Well, they might make an unusually-shaped paper-weight GCP May 2013 #117

Target shooting, wall hanger, collection ..... marble falls May 2013 #118

Are you serious? billh58 May 2013 #119

All animals offered as food are killed. So if all killing is bad .... marble falls May 2013 #122

Nice side step. billh58 May 2013 #127

I'm a hunter and unlike you I'm niether coy nor squeemish about killing. I say the biggest ... marble falls May 2013 #133

My, how manly billh58 May 2013 #136

Shame on you. Can't think of anything to say pertinent to the topic? marble falls May 2013 #137

You're cute. n/t billh58 May 2013 #139

Ah but you're cuter. marble falls May 2013 #170

I know. billh58 May 2013 #173

No one is taking your hunting riffle. ForgoTheConsequence May 2013 #146

these hunting rifles will be banned "All AR types, including the following: AR�10, AR�15" Duckhunter935 May 2013 #154

I'm not worried. But the fact is more people are bludgeoned to death than are killed... marble falls May 2013 #175

Those aren't really hunting rifles. ForgoTheConsequence May 2013 #178

the Duckhunter935 May 2013 #180

You're wrong about cops being trained to kill, premium May 2013 #124

Cops are NOT billh58 May 2013 #125

That's right, and that's NOT what I said, premium May 2013 #126

The assertion that billh58 May 2013 #129

You're right, premium May 2013 #130

I misstated billh58 May 2013 #131

I agree, premium May 2013 #132

I'm assuming that you're billh58 May 2013 #134

Yep, premium May 2013 #138

As if the gun nuts in here care Uzair May 2013 #153

I do not know what a gun nut is Duckhunter935 May 2013 #159

So you support Canadian or Japanese style gun laws? Uzair May 2013 #162

As I have stated many times before Duckhunter935 May 2013 #167

So no, then Uzair May 2013 #174

Yes I can Duckhunter935 May 2013 #177

Ya know, premium May 2013 #212

Pathetic Uzair May 2013 #214

There is a problem, premium May 2013 #216

Unfortunately the gun nuts were out in full force Progressive dog May 2013 #155

this name calling Duckhunter935 May 2013 #161

Don't you think that billh58 May 2013 #172

I have been around a long time Duckhunter935 May 2013 #179

You're not alone with such experience. I asked one question and was promptly banned. AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #240

Good call, re: opening GD to gun discussions. Lizzie Poppet May 2013 #281

What doesn't the name calling help? Progressive dog May 2013 #186

Tragic, but that's a surprisingly small number. nt Demo_Chris May 2013 #181

Small....fascinating. So what number would concern you? Pholus May 2013 #204

I think that's a different question... Demo_Chris May 2013 #213

Wishy washy. I asked for your personal number. nt Pholus May 2013 #234

42 precisely. No more or less. nt Demo_Chris May 2013 #235

Way to avoid committing yourself! Had that one anticipated.... nt Pholus May 2013 #238

Sorry, but it's a silly question.... Demo_Chris May 2013 #246

Silly is when you used the words "surprisingly small." Pholus May 2013 #278

One death per MILLION children is quite small given all the noise about it here Demo_Chris May 2013 #282

Actually, we are now discussing innumeracy. Yours. Among other failings. Pholus May 2013 #289

It's a surprisingly large number when you compare it to the rest of the first world Hippo_Tron May 2013 #287

I have my own theories about why this is so, but guns are not at the heart of any of them. nt Demo_Chris May 2013 #288

Rec'ing for exposure... awoke_in_2003 May 2013 #190

Disturbing comments from Huffpo story of 7 year old shot by his 5 year old brother: freshwest May 2013 #191

. blkmusclmachine May 2013 #193

Bump n/t Tx4obama May 2013 #197

I can finally quantify crazy.... Pholus May 2013 #205

71+ cases of firearms being misused. ileus May 2013 #210

Yours is a very peculiar posting. IveWornAHundredPants May 2013 #254

Dead children are a small price to pay Hugabear May 2013 #255

Neglect JustAnotherGen May 2013 #271

Guns don't kill kids, kids with guns kill kids liberal N proud May 2013 #277