General Discussion

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

9. I wonder how this case would come out in the United States.

Reply to The Straight Story (Original post)

Mon May 13, 2013, 02:45 PM

May 2013

To force the Muslim girl to participate in an activity that's against her religion would violate the Free Exercise Clause. To grant Muslims an exemption from a requirement of general applicability, one serving a secular purpose, would violate the Establishment Clause.

Most commenters in this thread apparently see no merit to the family's position. I'm more sympathetic -- I don't think either side has a slam dunk.

Ideally, they'd try to reach an accommodation. Maybe the family could arrange private lessons from a woman, and any student of whatever religion could be exempted from the school's lessons upon showing that he or she could already swim.

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(Switzerland) Muslim girl made to attend swimming lessons [View all] The Straight Story May 2013 OP

I think it is nerve when people come to a country (any country) and don't learn to adapt to southernyankeebelle May 2013 #1

Yep,, if you don't like secular laws... awoke_in_2003 May 2013 #3

Not just religion. I think when you move to a new country you need to adapt to the southernyankeebelle May 2013 #8

If I moved to a country with Sharia law, I still wouldn't become a misogynist. Donald Ian Rankin May 2013 #10

I am not really talking about religion. southernyankeebelle May 2013 #12

I agree with your views 100% byeya May 2013 #48

thank you. Your really really smart. LOL southernyankeebelle May 2013 #50

I don't see anywhere in the article KatyMan May 2013 #35

No. I was talking in general terms. Not just religious people. southernyankeebelle May 2013 #38

Um the story doesn't say she immigrated or is a foreigner FreeState May 2013 #40

I am talking in general. A few comments ago. I don't care where she was born. All southernyankeebelle May 2013 #47

I understand your point, but there's a little more to the story than that, I think. antigone382 May 2013 #61

You make excellent points that I can't disagree with. But saying that you also must southernyankeebelle May 2013 #62

Sure, I think a certain amount of adaptation is inevitable. antigone382 May 2013 #63

Centuries ago, people generally didn't know how to swim, even sailors. dimbear May 2013 #2

You'd be surprised how many people can't swim in the US today Fumesucker May 2013 #4

i never learned and i'm from so cal JI7 May 2013 #6

That's why everyone should have swimming lessons. Dash87 May 2013 #17

I don't swim and will never learn. Skidmore May 2013 #22

article states she could already swim. n/t KatyMan May 2013 #36

I'd like to see the decision. rug May 2013 #5

it was based on integration of foreigners being more important than religious beliefs JI7 May 2013 #7

I'd still like to see it. rug May 2013 #13

how is it a public safety issue ? JI7 May 2013 #14

The state may consider the ability to swim to be basic. rug May 2013 #16

yes, that would be the point of having the lessons itself but the court ruled JI7 May 2013 #20

Here's a translation by your state.gov: Call Me Wesley May 2013 #27

Danke mein Freund. rug May 2013 #28

Gern geschehen! Call Me Wesley May 2013 #29

I wonder how this case would come out in the United States. Jim Lane May 2013 #9

that's because the US culture is much more religious and you see exceptions made JI7 May 2013 #15

There was US case law to the effect that treestar May 2013 #19

There is U.S. case law (and statutory law) both ways. Jim Lane May 2013 #32

That's within the church itself; nothing the government is doing treestar May 2013 #33

Your distinction doesn't hold water. Jim Lane May 2013 #42

True, but discrimination is a civil rather than criminal matter treestar May 2013 #43

Jesus christ on a dodge ball joint fundies are stupid... snooper2 May 2013 #11

So, what are they going to do if she refuses? Imprison her? Banish her to Arizona? Tierra_y_Libertad May 2013 #18

she wont complete her school requirements to move on to the next level JI7 May 2013 #21

I would think an accomodation could be reached allowing her to take private lessons. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2013 #23

no, integration is more important than religious beliefs JI7 May 2013 #25

hey, let's accomodate all fundamentalists. Say, some kid's family cali May 2013 #30

I don't think you understand multiculturalism jessie04 May 2013 #44

Nope. Call Me Wesley May 2013 #31

Mid 'seventies, USA. Our high school implemented co-ed swimming classes. hunter May 2013 #24

This sort of thing seems to pop up regularly in Europe War Horse May 2013 #26

Good. nt Demo_Chris May 2013 #34

In a land with so many lakes, it would be wise to learn how to swim. smirkymonkey May 2013 #37

There is religious freedom, then the REAL WORLD. N/t alp227 May 2013 #39

If you live in Europe, you ought to be tolerant of secular values. tritsofme May 2013 #41

I guess I will never understand burnodo May 2013 #45

Near as I can see leftynyc May 2013 #46

I tend to agree with that burnodo May 2013 #52

That is complicated leftynyc May 2013 #53

Roman Catholic woman have to (had to?) cover their hair while at mass. A hat or scarf would do. byeya May 2013 #49

Fifty years ago it was considered a sign of respect for the seriousness of the occasion; pnwmom May 2013 #54

A lot of fundy Muslim men are really into Ninjas snooper2 May 2013 #51

I guess I'm the only one who finds anything wrong with this. Nine May 2013 #55

Well The Straight Story May 2013 #56

You're proving my point for me. Nine May 2013 #57

Well, one point I do understand: The Straight Story May 2013 #58

Integration, not education Nine May 2013 #59

“parallel societies” The Straight Story May 2013 #60