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ProSense

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56. Actually, "being obtuse" is missing John Ashcroft. n/t

Reply to Taverner (Reply #54)

Wed May 15, 2013, 06:47 PM

May 2013

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Holder is not a progressive. Holder is not a civil libertarian. [View all] Taverner May 2013 OP

I'm not a Holder fan, either, but I'm not sure he could gateley May 2013 #1

Why did he not prosecute Bear Stearns? Citibank? Taverner May 2013 #4

I'm not defending him, I'm just saying I don't think he gets to decide who and what he gateley May 2013 #13

He is Attorney General - ultimately, it is he who chooses Taverner May 2013 #15

Yeah, that looks good on paper, but I wonder how it is in real life. gateley May 2013 #25

Good question. If Obama influenced him, we should know that. n/t Taverner May 2013 #26

It could be so subtle and so NOT against the rules that we'd never know. gateley May 2013 #30

YOU MAY BE DISCUSSING APPLES AND ORANGES - AT LEAST MCINTOSH VS GRANNY SMITH AAO May 2013 #79

In theory...there are walls between DOJ nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #23

In theory. gateley May 2013 #27

I know...just pointing out the theory nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #75

Remember how much Clinton loathed Janet Reno? truebluegreen May 2013 #122

I would love a Janet Reno about now Taverner May 2013 #134

Me too. truebluegreen May 2013 #143

Yes, Justice is supposed to be largely independent of the WH Yo_Mama May 2013 #85

Let's not forget he overturned Sen Ted "Bridge to Nowhere" Stevens (R) conviction. grahamhgreen May 2013 #90

Your opinion. I admire the guy. n/t lamp_shade May 2013 #2

Question: who messed up our economy more? Pot smokers or Banks? n/t Taverner May 2013 #7

Justice does not enforce economies. Not their job. kwassa May 2013 #89

What about the laws the bankers violated? morningfog May 2013 #98

You mean justice doesn't enforce laws on economic criminals? I'll buy that. TheKentuckian May 2013 #142

The OP gave reasons, what are yours? What motivates your admiration, specifically? Bluenorthwest May 2013 #16

It is simple. To admit otherwise would be to betray Obama. The Link May 2013 #36

What has he done to earn your admiration? nt City Lights May 2013 #20

The Department of Justice intervened in a major civil rights case in my hometown. cheapdate May 2013 #81

+1 freshwest May 2013 #92

He's upheld civil rights? Not when LEOs deliver unnecessary and excessive violence. Not at all. AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #126

Then maybe you wont mind telling us why you admire him. nm rhett o rick May 2013 #64

President Obama will not fire Holder, and should not. Tx4obama May 2013 #3

Disagree n/t Taverner May 2013 #5

Disagree warrprayer May 2013 #9

He was a fucking lawyer. ProSense May 2013 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author warrprayer May 2013 #44

rense? OMFG... SidDithers May 2013 #52

Sorry Sid. You are right. warrprayer May 2013 #161

... SidDithers May 2013 #163

Nice RW nutjob source there Bobbie Jo May 2013 #153

my mistake. warrprayer May 2013 #160

this works better warrprayer May 2013 #162

Disagree (nt) bigwillq May 2013 #17

One day of saving his own ass is not worth the 5 years of failures. morningfog May 2013 #99

Looks like you are dismissing all the 'good' things that he has done. Tx4obama May 2013 #103

The bad and ineffective far outweigh any good. morningfog May 2013 #104

If that's all you can think of then apparently... Tx4obama May 2013 #105

You seem to have them, lay them on me. morningfog May 2013 #106

A couple examples in an older post of mine, a copy and paste below Tx4obama May 2013 #107

Wonder what has come of those 91 arrests and subpoenas from last year. morningfog May 2013 #108

There are many more than two ... Tx4obama May 2013 #110

Also... yesterday Tx4obama May 2013 #112

This message was self-deleted by its author warrprayer May 2013 #6

"He was a death squad lawyer for Chiquita." - this should be known by all Taverner May 2013 #8

Yeah, ProSense May 2013 #10

AG Holder has one upped Ashcroft Taverner May 2013 #11

That's absurd. ProSense May 2013 #14

No, not a model. A "better than." There is a difference Taverner May 2013 #18

Let's go by your OP, and ProSense May 2013 #33

You are comparing what people said vs what they did Taverner May 2013 #40

What? n/t ProSense May 2013 #45

Ashcroft talked big, and actually was pretty bad Taverner May 2013 #47

That comment is frankly an admission that the OP is nonsense. n/t ProSense May 2013 #48

OK - please point out where the nonsense is? Taverner May 2013 #50

Here: ProSense May 2013 #53

That is not an answer. That's just being obtuse. Taverner May 2013 #54

Actually, "being obtuse" is missing John Ashcroft. n/t ProSense May 2013 #56

the fact you did not understand that response speaks VOLUMES Skittles May 2013 #102

Really! BobbyBoring May 2013 #84

+1 Some people are in denial Harmony Blue May 2013 #136

No one in this thread is holding up Ashcroft as a modal. Ashcroft was bad. Holder is bad. byeya May 2013 #22

Ayyyyy-MEN! Taverner May 2013 #42

Not to defend the asshat Ashcroft... awoke_in_2003 May 2013 #77

So Obama dislikes the Patriot Act? That is your stance? n-t Logical May 2013 #114

K and R (nt) bigwillq May 2013 #19

It bothers me that so many progressives here are carrying Holder's water Taverner May 2013 #21

This partisan pony show is getting this country nowhere bigwillq May 2013 #24

This being DU, however, the true civil libertarians will come to their senses Taverner May 2013 #28

Are you talking about the station LostOne4Ever May 2013 #111

I am talking what is public information now Taverner May 2013 #120

And yet sane people don't give a shit about third parties. Green, Tea or otherwise. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #29

The more parties the better, imo. bigwillq May 2013 #31

Agreed. I would love there to be as many parties as in Europe. n/t Taverner May 2013 #34

The whole future paradigm is changing. The Parties as they exist right now are fundraising Bluenorthwest May 2013 #57

"The Parties as they exist right now are fundraising organizations and not much more" Taverner May 2013 #121

Well, you should start a campaign. I'm sure Jill Stein, Roseanne, Rocky & Gary Johnson would be.... Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #35

If I'm nuts, so be it. bigwillq May 2013 #38

You mean I overestimated you? Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #46

Damn Striaght LostOne4Ever May 2013 #113

There is the DSA - Democratic Socialists of America Taverner May 2013 #32

Well, if you have to remind people you exist, then "small" doesn't truly describe you!!! Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #39

Small, yes. Democratic, yes. Hopeful, yes. And in the end, ethical, yes. nt Taverner May 2013 #124

And how can you change that? LostOne4Ever May 2013 #109

It will be very difficult to weaken the other party, whether D or R bigwillq May 2013 #145

Your first mistake NorthCarolina May 2013 #86

There are many here whom I respect who are answering for him Taverner May 2013 #123

No progressives are carrying his water. morningfog May 2013 #100

the 3rd wayers are coming!!! warrprayer May 2013 #37

You're celebrating a RW asshole and complaining about "3rd wayers"? n/t ProSense May 2013 #41

you must be thinking of someone else warrprayer May 2013 #63

He didn't celebrate a RW asshole so your accusation is uncalled for Dragonfli May 2013 #141

The "third wayers" win national elections. The far left....not so much. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #43

Yet the Far Left are, well, correct Taverner May 2013 #51

And ineffective. If you can't win, you're irrelevant. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #55

Which is why Third Way candidates are so awful they keep losing House seats and Senate seats Bluenorthwest May 2013 #60

"Third Wayers" make far lefters ineffective? Isn't it the voters who make that choice? You need... Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #69

LOL NorthCarolina May 2013 #88

It is still more LostOne4Ever May 2013 #116

Franco was effective, should I be like him? Taverner May 2013 #119

Henry Clay LostOne4Ever May 2013 #115

Stalin changed a lot too. Should I be like Stalin? Taverner May 2013 #118

What you should be LostOne4Ever May 2013 #127

I just want the best for us Taverner May 2013 #129

We all want the best for us LostOne4Ever May 2013 #132

'Tis why I am a member of the DSA Taverner May 2013 #133

I support that. LostOne4Ever May 2013 #135

I know Obama is the best we are going to get Taverner May 2013 #137

Is that you, Rahm? warrprayer May 2013 #59

Win a fuckin' election, then we'll talk!!! Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #61

get thousands warrprayer May 2013 #67

Jill & Rocky sure could have used them. Oh that's right, they voted for Obama. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #73

A win is a win and that is all that fucking matters. morningfog May 2013 #101

The third wayers deserve a seat at the table too Taverner May 2013 #49

Says the guy linking to fucking rense... SidDithers May 2013 #58

Hi Sid! warrprayer May 2013 #62

How about Bobbie Jo May 2013 #158

O.K. warrprayer May 2013 #159

Here: Bobbie Jo May 2013 #156

I wanted Elliot Spitzer as AG. I don't give a damn how many hookers he slept with... ms liberty May 2013 #65

I like this idea! (nt) LostOne4Ever May 2013 #117

Holder lost me when he made throwing pot smoking cancer patients in prison a priority. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #66

Wanting ProSense May 2013 #68

.... warrprayer May 2013 #70

Fuck John Ashcroft, teabaggers and RW apologists. n/t ProSense May 2013 #74

Good point. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #72

K&R MotherPetrie May 2013 #71

K&R. Cut him loose (nt) Nye Bevan May 2013 #76

President Obama is not going to fire Holder. ProSense May 2013 #78

knows his stuff? what does that even mean? cali May 2013 #154

I've read this entire thread, and I've made up my mind. AAO May 2013 #80

the most serious of the three so-called "scandals" will receive the least pressure to do something Douglas Carpenter May 2013 #82

If Holder leaves it will be impossible to get another AG confirmed in this senate kimbutgar May 2013 #83

Obama is the decider. Don't give the boss a free pass. limpyhobbler May 2013 #87

In the end, the buck stops with him. That's why he should fire him. Taverner May 2013 #130

Well said DainBramaged May 2013 #91

Why didn't he bring me the pizza I ordered? I wanted pepperoni with extra cheese. Liberal_Stalwart71 May 2013 #93

Thanks, Obama... SidDithers May 2013 #94

He made his bones by checking off on the pardon for Marc Rich. Octafish May 2013 #95

Worse - he made his bones defending death squads Taverner May 2013 #131

Holder does what he HAS to do. jazzimov May 2013 #96

But ProSense May 2013 #97

So did Beria nt Taverner May 2013 #125

i agree samsingh May 2013 #128

Post removed Post removed May 2013 #138

I will give the Prez the benefit of the doubt Taverner May 2013 #140

Ashcroft: ProSense May 2013 #139

Fuck Ron Paul...nt SidDithers May 2013 #144

I agree... MrMickeysMom May 2013 #146

Law enforcement officers will never be civil libertarians. nt geek tragedy May 2013 #147

Yes, I suppose cops are pretty anti civil liberties Dragonfli May 2013 #149

Civil rights and civil liberties are different categories geek tragedy May 2013 #150

Civil Rights are Civil Liberties Dragonfli May 2013 #151

Other way around--all liberties are rights, but not all rights are liberties. geek tragedy May 2013 #152

You are clearly misinformed, ACLU would only argue for the actual rights of KKK or anyone really. Dragonfli May 2013 #164

Well, duh. Iggo May 2013 #148

Yes, cops appear to hold the misguided belief that it is their job to be anti-civil liberties Dragonfli May 2013 #165

Careful what you ask for. NCTraveler May 2013 #155

I would love to see Eric Schneiderman become AG Taverner May 2013 #157