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geek tragedy

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152. Other way around--all liberties are rights, but not all rights are liberties.

Thu May 16, 2013, 03:11 PM

May 2013

ADL and NAACP won't be arguing for the right of KKK and Neo-Nazi to hold marches in their neighborhoods, or against hate crime laws, like the ACLU does.

Not to say one is right and the other is wrong, just that they disagree because their missions are different. The NAACP is concerned with preventing racism and group-based discrimination, whereas the ACLU values individual rights first and foremost.

Similarly, the basic thrust of civil libertarians is to make it more difficult to arrest and put people in jail. That's an inherent conflict with people whose job it is to arrest people and put them in jail.

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Holder is not a progressive. Holder is not a civil libertarian. [View all] Taverner May 2013 OP

I'm not a Holder fan, either, but I'm not sure he could gateley May 2013 #1

Why did he not prosecute Bear Stearns? Citibank? Taverner May 2013 #4

I'm not defending him, I'm just saying I don't think he gets to decide who and what he gateley May 2013 #13

He is Attorney General - ultimately, it is he who chooses Taverner May 2013 #15

Yeah, that looks good on paper, but I wonder how it is in real life. gateley May 2013 #25

Good question. If Obama influenced him, we should know that. n/t Taverner May 2013 #26

It could be so subtle and so NOT against the rules that we'd never know. gateley May 2013 #30

YOU MAY BE DISCUSSING APPLES AND ORANGES - AT LEAST MCINTOSH VS GRANNY SMITH AAO May 2013 #79

In theory...there are walls between DOJ nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #23

In theory. gateley May 2013 #27

I know...just pointing out the theory nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #75

Remember how much Clinton loathed Janet Reno? truebluegreen May 2013 #122

I would love a Janet Reno about now Taverner May 2013 #134

Me too. truebluegreen May 2013 #143

Yes, Justice is supposed to be largely independent of the WH Yo_Mama May 2013 #85

Let's not forget he overturned Sen Ted "Bridge to Nowhere" Stevens (R) conviction. grahamhgreen May 2013 #90

Your opinion. I admire the guy. n/t lamp_shade May 2013 #2

Question: who messed up our economy more? Pot smokers or Banks? n/t Taverner May 2013 #7

Justice does not enforce economies. Not their job. kwassa May 2013 #89

What about the laws the bankers violated? morningfog May 2013 #98

You mean justice doesn't enforce laws on economic criminals? I'll buy that. TheKentuckian May 2013 #142

The OP gave reasons, what are yours? What motivates your admiration, specifically? Bluenorthwest May 2013 #16

It is simple. To admit otherwise would be to betray Obama. The Link May 2013 #36

What has he done to earn your admiration? nt City Lights May 2013 #20

The Department of Justice intervened in a major civil rights case in my hometown. cheapdate May 2013 #81

+1 freshwest May 2013 #92

He's upheld civil rights? Not when LEOs deliver unnecessary and excessive violence. Not at all. AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #126

Then maybe you wont mind telling us why you admire him. nm rhett o rick May 2013 #64

President Obama will not fire Holder, and should not. Tx4obama May 2013 #3

Disagree n/t Taverner May 2013 #5

Disagree warrprayer May 2013 #9

He was a fucking lawyer. ProSense May 2013 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author warrprayer May 2013 #44

rense? OMFG... SidDithers May 2013 #52

Sorry Sid. You are right. warrprayer May 2013 #161

... SidDithers May 2013 #163

Nice RW nutjob source there Bobbie Jo May 2013 #153

my mistake. warrprayer May 2013 #160

this works better warrprayer May 2013 #162

Disagree (nt) bigwillq May 2013 #17

One day of saving his own ass is not worth the 5 years of failures. morningfog May 2013 #99

Looks like you are dismissing all the 'good' things that he has done. Tx4obama May 2013 #103

The bad and ineffective far outweigh any good. morningfog May 2013 #104

If that's all you can think of then apparently... Tx4obama May 2013 #105

You seem to have them, lay them on me. morningfog May 2013 #106

A couple examples in an older post of mine, a copy and paste below Tx4obama May 2013 #107

Wonder what has come of those 91 arrests and subpoenas from last year. morningfog May 2013 #108

There are many more than two ... Tx4obama May 2013 #110

Also... yesterday Tx4obama May 2013 #112

This message was self-deleted by its author warrprayer May 2013 #6

"He was a death squad lawyer for Chiquita." - this should be known by all Taverner May 2013 #8

Yeah, ProSense May 2013 #10

AG Holder has one upped Ashcroft Taverner May 2013 #11

That's absurd. ProSense May 2013 #14

No, not a model. A "better than." There is a difference Taverner May 2013 #18

Let's go by your OP, and ProSense May 2013 #33

You are comparing what people said vs what they did Taverner May 2013 #40

What? n/t ProSense May 2013 #45

Ashcroft talked big, and actually was pretty bad Taverner May 2013 #47

That comment is frankly an admission that the OP is nonsense. n/t ProSense May 2013 #48

OK - please point out where the nonsense is? Taverner May 2013 #50

Here: ProSense May 2013 #53

That is not an answer. That's just being obtuse. Taverner May 2013 #54

Actually, "being obtuse" is missing John Ashcroft. n/t ProSense May 2013 #56

the fact you did not understand that response speaks VOLUMES Skittles May 2013 #102

Really! BobbyBoring May 2013 #84

+1 Some people are in denial Harmony Blue May 2013 #136

No one in this thread is holding up Ashcroft as a modal. Ashcroft was bad. Holder is bad. byeya May 2013 #22

Ayyyyy-MEN! Taverner May 2013 #42

Not to defend the asshat Ashcroft... awoke_in_2003 May 2013 #77

So Obama dislikes the Patriot Act? That is your stance? n-t Logical May 2013 #114

K and R (nt) bigwillq May 2013 #19

It bothers me that so many progressives here are carrying Holder's water Taverner May 2013 #21

This partisan pony show is getting this country nowhere bigwillq May 2013 #24

This being DU, however, the true civil libertarians will come to their senses Taverner May 2013 #28

Are you talking about the station LostOne4Ever May 2013 #111

I am talking what is public information now Taverner May 2013 #120

And yet sane people don't give a shit about third parties. Green, Tea or otherwise. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #29

The more parties the better, imo. bigwillq May 2013 #31

Agreed. I would love there to be as many parties as in Europe. n/t Taverner May 2013 #34

The whole future paradigm is changing. The Parties as they exist right now are fundraising Bluenorthwest May 2013 #57

"The Parties as they exist right now are fundraising organizations and not much more" Taverner May 2013 #121

Well, you should start a campaign. I'm sure Jill Stein, Roseanne, Rocky & Gary Johnson would be.... Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #35

If I'm nuts, so be it. bigwillq May 2013 #38

You mean I overestimated you? Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #46

Damn Striaght LostOne4Ever May 2013 #113

There is the DSA - Democratic Socialists of America Taverner May 2013 #32

Well, if you have to remind people you exist, then "small" doesn't truly describe you!!! Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #39

Small, yes. Democratic, yes. Hopeful, yes. And in the end, ethical, yes. nt Taverner May 2013 #124

And how can you change that? LostOne4Ever May 2013 #109

It will be very difficult to weaken the other party, whether D or R bigwillq May 2013 #145

Your first mistake NorthCarolina May 2013 #86

There are many here whom I respect who are answering for him Taverner May 2013 #123

No progressives are carrying his water. morningfog May 2013 #100

the 3rd wayers are coming!!! warrprayer May 2013 #37

You're celebrating a RW asshole and complaining about "3rd wayers"? n/t ProSense May 2013 #41

you must be thinking of someone else warrprayer May 2013 #63

He didn't celebrate a RW asshole so your accusation is uncalled for Dragonfli May 2013 #141

The "third wayers" win national elections. The far left....not so much. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #43

Yet the Far Left are, well, correct Taverner May 2013 #51

And ineffective. If you can't win, you're irrelevant. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #55

Which is why Third Way candidates are so awful they keep losing House seats and Senate seats Bluenorthwest May 2013 #60

"Third Wayers" make far lefters ineffective? Isn't it the voters who make that choice? You need... Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #69

LOL NorthCarolina May 2013 #88

It is still more LostOne4Ever May 2013 #116

Franco was effective, should I be like him? Taverner May 2013 #119

Henry Clay LostOne4Ever May 2013 #115

Stalin changed a lot too. Should I be like Stalin? Taverner May 2013 #118

What you should be LostOne4Ever May 2013 #127

I just want the best for us Taverner May 2013 #129

We all want the best for us LostOne4Ever May 2013 #132

'Tis why I am a member of the DSA Taverner May 2013 #133

I support that. LostOne4Ever May 2013 #135

I know Obama is the best we are going to get Taverner May 2013 #137

Is that you, Rahm? warrprayer May 2013 #59

Win a fuckin' election, then we'll talk!!! Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #61

get thousands warrprayer May 2013 #67

Jill & Rocky sure could have used them. Oh that's right, they voted for Obama. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #73

A win is a win and that is all that fucking matters. morningfog May 2013 #101

The third wayers deserve a seat at the table too Taverner May 2013 #49

Says the guy linking to fucking rense... SidDithers May 2013 #58

Hi Sid! warrprayer May 2013 #62

How about Bobbie Jo May 2013 #158

O.K. warrprayer May 2013 #159

Here: Bobbie Jo May 2013 #156

I wanted Elliot Spitzer as AG. I don't give a damn how many hookers he slept with... ms liberty May 2013 #65

I like this idea! (nt) LostOne4Ever May 2013 #117

Holder lost me when he made throwing pot smoking cancer patients in prison a priority. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #66

Wanting ProSense May 2013 #68

.... warrprayer May 2013 #70

Fuck John Ashcroft, teabaggers and RW apologists. n/t ProSense May 2013 #74

Good point. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #72

K&R MotherPetrie May 2013 #71

K&R. Cut him loose (nt) Nye Bevan May 2013 #76

President Obama is not going to fire Holder. ProSense May 2013 #78

knows his stuff? what does that even mean? cali May 2013 #154

I've read this entire thread, and I've made up my mind. AAO May 2013 #80

the most serious of the three so-called "scandals" will receive the least pressure to do something Douglas Carpenter May 2013 #82

If Holder leaves it will be impossible to get another AG confirmed in this senate kimbutgar May 2013 #83

Obama is the decider. Don't give the boss a free pass. limpyhobbler May 2013 #87

In the end, the buck stops with him. That's why he should fire him. Taverner May 2013 #130

Well said DainBramaged May 2013 #91

Why didn't he bring me the pizza I ordered? I wanted pepperoni with extra cheese. Liberal_Stalwart71 May 2013 #93

Thanks, Obama... SidDithers May 2013 #94

He made his bones by checking off on the pardon for Marc Rich. Octafish May 2013 #95

Worse - he made his bones defending death squads Taverner May 2013 #131

Holder does what he HAS to do. jazzimov May 2013 #96

But ProSense May 2013 #97

So did Beria nt Taverner May 2013 #125

i agree samsingh May 2013 #128

Post removed Post removed May 2013 #138

I will give the Prez the benefit of the doubt Taverner May 2013 #140

Ashcroft: ProSense May 2013 #139

Fuck Ron Paul...nt SidDithers May 2013 #144

I agree... MrMickeysMom May 2013 #146

Law enforcement officers will never be civil libertarians. nt geek tragedy May 2013 #147

Yes, I suppose cops are pretty anti civil liberties Dragonfli May 2013 #149

Civil rights and civil liberties are different categories geek tragedy May 2013 #150

Civil Rights are Civil Liberties Dragonfli May 2013 #151

Other way around--all liberties are rights, but not all rights are liberties. geek tragedy May 2013 #152

You are clearly misinformed, ACLU would only argue for the actual rights of KKK or anyone really. Dragonfli May 2013 #164

Well, duh. Iggo May 2013 #148

Yes, cops appear to hold the misguided belief that it is their job to be anti-civil liberties Dragonfli May 2013 #165

Careful what you ask for. NCTraveler May 2013 #155

I would love to see Eric Schneiderman become AG Taverner May 2013 #157