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Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
164. You are clearly misinformed, ACLU would only argue for the actual rights of KKK or anyone really.
Thu May 16, 2013, 10:05 PM
May 2013

They never argued for the KKK or anyone having a right to oppose the civil liberties of others, as the KKK did when they colluded with segregationists that tried to deny the civil liberties of those not lily white and bigoted, don't you remember the part they played? Free speech is a right granted via our civil liberties, The ACLU will argue for your right to claim the bill of rights is in opposition to law enforcement, they would not argue that you have a right to deny the rights of others by opposing the liberties granted by the bill of rights (as some misguided belief that that is your duty as a LEO). LE is actually supposed to protect our rights. We are moving backward, I have already granted, but you do not seem to grasp what civil liberties are.

Many of the groups are formed to protect the civil liberties of specific targeted groups, such have typically been minorities, semitic people, women, disabled, LGBT as well as other targets; a new target of anti civil liberties proponents are those involved in occupy or 99% movements, the principle is the same and the occupy movement may need a "letter group" to specifically try to protect their rights (which are being stomped on by LE).

I don't have the time to teach a course to you on civil liberties, but I can give you a quick primer

Civil Liberty is the right and freedom that usually provides an individual with specific rights such as right to life, right to a fair trial and freedom of expression among others. This concept dates back to the English legal charter the Magna Carta 1215 and the protection of civil liberties is a key responsibility of all citizens of Free states.


Civil liberties are basic rights and freedoms guaranteed, either identified in the bill of rights or in the constitution. These are; freedom of speech, right to privacy, marry and vote. For more please click: http://public.findlaw.com/civil-rights/civil-rights-basics/civil-rights-vs-liberties.html


Civil liberties are rights and freedoms that protect an individual from the state. Civil liberties set limits on government so that its members cannot abuse their power and interfere unduly with the lives of private citizens.

Freedoms and rights provided to individuals by the laws governing a country are called civil liberties. They may include the right to life, right to free and fair trial, freedom of expression and association, protection from torture, freedom from slavery, freedom of conscience, religion among others. Civil liberties form the basis for democracy in most states and have given rise to many civil activist movements.


The Evolution of American Civil Liberties
A Short History


The civil liberties we have today weren't created; they evolved.

Inch by inch, technicality by technicality, the British system of law that once allowed for the absolute rule of the monarch gradually became a system that respected Parliament and, when it was transplanted to the United States, eliminated the monarchy from the equation entirely. The Bill of Rights, once an unenforceable series of promises, has become the centerpiece of our criminal justice system. Here's how it happened.

1215: The Power of the Monarchy is Reduced
The Magna Carta restricts the absolute power of British monarchs, holding them accountable to the rule of law.

1689: The Rights of English Subjects Are Defined
The English Bill of Rights guarantees free speech to members of Parliament, bans cruel and unusual punishment, and supports a limited right to bear arms.

1776: The Power of the Monarchy is Rejected
In the U.S. Declaration of Independence from Britain, Thomas Jefferson argues that the sole legitimate purpose of government is to protect individual rights.

1787: A New Democratic System is Established
The new U.S. Constitution establishes limited roles for the President and Congress, but does not yet grant significant power to the Supreme Court.

1789: The Rights of U.S. Citizens Are Defined
The U.S. Bill of Rights protects the natural rights of U.S. citizens from infringement by U.S. Congress, but because the Supreme Court has no power to strike down legislation, it is in effect little more than a statement of principles. At this point in history it applies exclusively to the U.S. government--and not to U.S. states, which have their own, separate bills of rights.

1803: A Mechanism for Protecting Rights is Created
In Marbury v. Madison, the Supreme Court strikes down its first law and in so doing establishes its power to strike down unconstitutional legislation.

1868: The Rights of U.S. Citizens Are More Clearly Defined
The Fourteenth Amendment is ratified. Although its original purpose is to limit the efforts of Southern states to severely restrict the rights of recently freed slaves, it effectively makes individual states accountable to the human rights standards established in the Bill of Rights--though it will be more than a half century before the Supreme Court comes to that conclusion.

1925: State Legislatures Must Respect the Rights of U.S. Citizens
In Gitlow v. New York, the Supreme Court holds that states are bound by the U.S. Bill of Rights by way of the Fourteenth Amendment. The means by which the Fourteenth Amendment extends the power of the Bill of Rights is most commonly referred to as the incorporation doctrine.

1965: The Right to Be Left Alone is Defined
In Griswold v. Connecticut, the Supreme Court holds that the Fourth, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution imply a right to privacy. This right to privacy will later be cited in court rulings legalizing abortion (Roe v. Wade, 1973) and striking down laws prohibiting gay sex (Lawrence v. Texas, 2003).

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I'm not a Holder fan, either, but I'm not sure he could gateley May 2013 #1
Why did he not prosecute Bear Stearns? Citibank? Taverner May 2013 #4
I'm not defending him, I'm just saying I don't think he gets to decide who and what he gateley May 2013 #13
He is Attorney General - ultimately, it is he who chooses Taverner May 2013 #15
Yeah, that looks good on paper, but I wonder how it is in real life. gateley May 2013 #25
Good question. If Obama influenced him, we should know that. n/t Taverner May 2013 #26
It could be so subtle and so NOT against the rules that we'd never know. gateley May 2013 #30
YOU MAY BE DISCUSSING APPLES AND ORANGES - AT LEAST MCINTOSH VS GRANNY SMITH AAO May 2013 #79
In theory...there are walls between DOJ nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #23
In theory. gateley May 2013 #27
I know...just pointing out the theory nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #75
Remember how much Clinton loathed Janet Reno? truebluegreen May 2013 #122
I would love a Janet Reno about now Taverner May 2013 #134
Me too. truebluegreen May 2013 #143
Yes, Justice is supposed to be largely independent of the WH Yo_Mama May 2013 #85
Let's not forget he overturned Sen Ted "Bridge to Nowhere" Stevens (R) conviction. grahamhgreen May 2013 #90
Your opinion. I admire the guy. n/t lamp_shade May 2013 #2
Question: who messed up our economy more? Pot smokers or Banks? n/t Taverner May 2013 #7
Justice does not enforce economies. Not their job. kwassa May 2013 #89
What about the laws the bankers violated? morningfog May 2013 #98
You mean justice doesn't enforce laws on economic criminals? I'll buy that. TheKentuckian May 2013 #142
The OP gave reasons, what are yours? What motivates your admiration, specifically? Bluenorthwest May 2013 #16
It is simple. To admit otherwise would be to betray Obama. The Link May 2013 #36
What has he done to earn your admiration? nt City Lights May 2013 #20
The Department of Justice intervened in a major civil rights case in my hometown. cheapdate May 2013 #81
+1 freshwest May 2013 #92
He's upheld civil rights? Not when LEOs deliver unnecessary and excessive violence. Not at all. AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #126
Then maybe you wont mind telling us why you admire him. nm rhett o rick May 2013 #64
President Obama will not fire Holder, and should not. Tx4obama May 2013 #3
Disagree n/t Taverner May 2013 #5
Disagree warrprayer May 2013 #9
He was a fucking lawyer. ProSense May 2013 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author warrprayer May 2013 #44
rense? OMFG... SidDithers May 2013 #52
Sorry Sid. You are right. warrprayer May 2013 #161
... SidDithers May 2013 #163
Nice RW nutjob source there Bobbie Jo May 2013 #153
my mistake. warrprayer May 2013 #160
this works better warrprayer May 2013 #162
Disagree (nt) bigwillq May 2013 #17
One day of saving his own ass is not worth the 5 years of failures. morningfog May 2013 #99
Looks like you are dismissing all the 'good' things that he has done. Tx4obama May 2013 #103
The bad and ineffective far outweigh any good. morningfog May 2013 #104
If that's all you can think of then apparently... Tx4obama May 2013 #105
You seem to have them, lay them on me. morningfog May 2013 #106
A couple examples in an older post of mine, a copy and paste below Tx4obama May 2013 #107
Wonder what has come of those 91 arrests and subpoenas from last year. morningfog May 2013 #108
There are many more than two ... Tx4obama May 2013 #110
Also... yesterday Tx4obama May 2013 #112
This message was self-deleted by its author warrprayer May 2013 #6
"He was a death squad lawyer for Chiquita." - this should be known by all Taverner May 2013 #8
Yeah, ProSense May 2013 #10
AG Holder has one upped Ashcroft Taverner May 2013 #11
That's absurd. ProSense May 2013 #14
No, not a model. A "better than." There is a difference Taverner May 2013 #18
Let's go by your OP, and ProSense May 2013 #33
You are comparing what people said vs what they did Taverner May 2013 #40
What? n/t ProSense May 2013 #45
Ashcroft talked big, and actually was pretty bad Taverner May 2013 #47
That comment is frankly an admission that the OP is nonsense. n/t ProSense May 2013 #48
OK - please point out where the nonsense is? Taverner May 2013 #50
Here: ProSense May 2013 #53
That is not an answer. That's just being obtuse. Taverner May 2013 #54
Actually, "being obtuse" is missing John Ashcroft. n/t ProSense May 2013 #56
the fact you did not understand that response speaks VOLUMES Skittles May 2013 #102
Really! BobbyBoring May 2013 #84
+1 Some people are in denial Harmony Blue May 2013 #136
No one in this thread is holding up Ashcroft as a modal. Ashcroft was bad. Holder is bad. byeya May 2013 #22
Ayyyyy-MEN! Taverner May 2013 #42
Not to defend the asshat Ashcroft... awoke_in_2003 May 2013 #77
So Obama dislikes the Patriot Act? That is your stance? n-t Logical May 2013 #114
K and R (nt) bigwillq May 2013 #19
It bothers me that so many progressives here are carrying Holder's water Taverner May 2013 #21
This partisan pony show is getting this country nowhere bigwillq May 2013 #24
This being DU, however, the true civil libertarians will come to their senses Taverner May 2013 #28
Are you talking about the station LostOne4Ever May 2013 #111
I am talking what is public information now Taverner May 2013 #120
And yet sane people don't give a shit about third parties. Green, Tea or otherwise. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #29
The more parties the better, imo. bigwillq May 2013 #31
Agreed. I would love there to be as many parties as in Europe. n/t Taverner May 2013 #34
The whole future paradigm is changing. The Parties as they exist right now are fundraising Bluenorthwest May 2013 #57
"The Parties as they exist right now are fundraising organizations and not much more" Taverner May 2013 #121
Well, you should start a campaign. I'm sure Jill Stein, Roseanne, Rocky & Gary Johnson would be.... Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #35
If I'm nuts, so be it. bigwillq May 2013 #38
You mean I overestimated you? Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #46
Damn Striaght LostOne4Ever May 2013 #113
There is the DSA - Democratic Socialists of America Taverner May 2013 #32
Well, if you have to remind people you exist, then "small" doesn't truly describe you!!! Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #39
Small, yes. Democratic, yes. Hopeful, yes. And in the end, ethical, yes. nt Taverner May 2013 #124
And how can you change that? LostOne4Ever May 2013 #109
It will be very difficult to weaken the other party, whether D or R bigwillq May 2013 #145
Your first mistake NorthCarolina May 2013 #86
There are many here whom I respect who are answering for him Taverner May 2013 #123
No progressives are carrying his water. morningfog May 2013 #100
the 3rd wayers are coming!!! warrprayer May 2013 #37
You're celebrating a RW asshole and complaining about "3rd wayers"? n/t ProSense May 2013 #41
you must be thinking of someone else warrprayer May 2013 #63
He didn't celebrate a RW asshole so your accusation is uncalled for Dragonfli May 2013 #141
The "third wayers" win national elections. The far left....not so much. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #43
Yet the Far Left are, well, correct Taverner May 2013 #51
And ineffective. If you can't win, you're irrelevant. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #55
Which is why Third Way candidates are so awful they keep losing House seats and Senate seats Bluenorthwest May 2013 #60
"Third Wayers" make far lefters ineffective? Isn't it the voters who make that choice? You need... Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #69
LOL NorthCarolina May 2013 #88
It is still more LostOne4Ever May 2013 #116
Franco was effective, should I be like him? Taverner May 2013 #119
Henry Clay LostOne4Ever May 2013 #115
Stalin changed a lot too. Should I be like Stalin? Taverner May 2013 #118
What you should be LostOne4Ever May 2013 #127
I just want the best for us Taverner May 2013 #129
We all want the best for us LostOne4Ever May 2013 #132
'Tis why I am a member of the DSA Taverner May 2013 #133
I support that. LostOne4Ever May 2013 #135
I know Obama is the best we are going to get Taverner May 2013 #137
Is that you, Rahm? warrprayer May 2013 #59
Win a fuckin' election, then we'll talk!!! Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #61
get thousands warrprayer May 2013 #67
Jill & Rocky sure could have used them. Oh that's right, they voted for Obama. Tarheel_Dem May 2013 #73
A win is a win and that is all that fucking matters. morningfog May 2013 #101
The third wayers deserve a seat at the table too Taverner May 2013 #49
Says the guy linking to fucking rense... SidDithers May 2013 #58
Hi Sid! warrprayer May 2013 #62
How about Bobbie Jo May 2013 #158
O.K. warrprayer May 2013 #159
Here: Bobbie Jo May 2013 #156
I wanted Elliot Spitzer as AG. I don't give a damn how many hookers he slept with... ms liberty May 2013 #65
I like this idea! (nt) LostOne4Ever May 2013 #117
Holder lost me when he made throwing pot smoking cancer patients in prison a priority. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #66
Wanting ProSense May 2013 #68
.... warrprayer May 2013 #70
Fuck John Ashcroft, teabaggers and RW apologists. n/t ProSense May 2013 #74
Good point. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #72
K&R MotherPetrie May 2013 #71
K&R. Cut him loose (nt) Nye Bevan May 2013 #76
President Obama is not going to fire Holder. ProSense May 2013 #78
knows his stuff? what does that even mean? cali May 2013 #154
I've read this entire thread, and I've made up my mind. AAO May 2013 #80
the most serious of the three so-called "scandals" will receive the least pressure to do something Douglas Carpenter May 2013 #82
If Holder leaves it will be impossible to get another AG confirmed in this senate kimbutgar May 2013 #83
Obama is the decider. Don't give the boss a free pass. limpyhobbler May 2013 #87
In the end, the buck stops with him. That's why he should fire him. Taverner May 2013 #130
Well said DainBramaged May 2013 #91
Why didn't he bring me the pizza I ordered? I wanted pepperoni with extra cheese. Liberal_Stalwart71 May 2013 #93
Thanks, Obama... SidDithers May 2013 #94
He made his bones by checking off on the pardon for Marc Rich. Octafish May 2013 #95
Worse - he made his bones defending death squads Taverner May 2013 #131
Holder does what he HAS to do. jazzimov May 2013 #96
But ProSense May 2013 #97
So did Beria nt Taverner May 2013 #125
i agree samsingh May 2013 #128
Post removed Post removed May 2013 #138
I will give the Prez the benefit of the doubt Taverner May 2013 #140
Ashcroft: ProSense May 2013 #139
Fuck Ron Paul...nt SidDithers May 2013 #144
I agree... MrMickeysMom May 2013 #146
Law enforcement officers will never be civil libertarians. nt geek tragedy May 2013 #147
Yes, I suppose cops are pretty anti civil liberties Dragonfli May 2013 #149
Civil rights and civil liberties are different categories geek tragedy May 2013 #150
Civil Rights are Civil Liberties Dragonfli May 2013 #151
Other way around--all liberties are rights, but not all rights are liberties. geek tragedy May 2013 #152
You are clearly misinformed, ACLU would only argue for the actual rights of KKK or anyone really. Dragonfli May 2013 #164
Well, duh. Iggo May 2013 #148
Yes, cops appear to hold the misguided belief that it is their job to be anti-civil liberties Dragonfli May 2013 #165
Careful what you ask for. NCTraveler May 2013 #155
I would love to see Eric Schneiderman become AG Taverner May 2013 #157
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