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yellowcanine

(36,795 posts)

153. So how many sick or dead children is ok to risk just so a few can have raw milk?

Wed Feb 8, 2012, 07:06 PM

Feb 2012

Is it a non-problem for the kids on kidney dialysis as a result of drinking raw milk?

"And if raw milk sales really were negatively influencing pasteurized milk sales, as your cousin alleges, where's the data on that? It should be ridiculously simple to prove."

Of course I didn't didn't say that.

"So you still think it's the raw milk producers that are adversely affecting big dairy's business?"

Of course I didn't say that either.

Just to be clear, what I said was that my cousin believes that outbreaks of illness from raw milk will negatively impact all milk sales. Is this a reasonable fear? I don't really know but it might be in light of some of the recent experiences with e coli poisoning from contaminated spinach and other cases of food borne illnesses. When people panic they tend to stop buying products which have been implicated, even in a tangential way. You may think this might be "ridiculously simple to prove" but the real reasons why people buy or don't buy something is not so simple to prove. Correlation is easy enough, showing causation, not so easy, particularly when it comes to behavior.

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Another "raw milk" incident... [View all] Archae Feb 2012 OP

Sounds like the taste of freedom to me MrScorpio Feb 2012 #1

LOL zinnisking Feb 2012 #21

Some people never seem to learn. RC Feb 2012 #2

But, but I should be free....to ignore all scientific evidence! nadinbrzezinski Feb 2012 #3

and how many people get ill or die from big farm food? Properly handled raw milk Hestia Feb 2012 #4

Prove it Warpy Feb 2012 #5

EXACTLY! If you've ever been in a dariy barn HillWilliam Feb 2012 #9

Uh, milking machines? moriah Feb 2012 #95

It is impossible to sterilize a cow's udder and milking machines aren't sterilized either. yellowcanine Feb 2012 #135

It's ridiculously simple to prove Major Nikon Feb 2012 #10

Louis Pasteur was a pathetic imposter. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #16

Louis Pasteur developed the process for wine and beer Major Nikon Feb 2012 #40

The vaccination process was created for smallpox. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #41

Staying on topic is too difficult for some I guess Major Nikon Feb 2012 #45

I thought you changed it to original use of processes. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #47

The CDC disagrees with the notion of "competitive exclusion" and raw milk yellowcanine Feb 2012 #137

I grew up on my best friend's dairy blueamy66 Feb 2012 #23

I don't agree with you often Aerows Feb 2012 #30

thanks blueamy66 Feb 2012 #60

they say smoking is bad for you Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #33

so, you are comparing smoking cigarettes with blueamy66 Feb 2012 #61

I'm just showing the usefulness of anecdotes. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #63

oh please blueamy66 Feb 2012 #91

Yes, you are wrong. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #108

Is the fact that the CDC says that ZERO people have died in the last ten years from raw milk proof? renie408 Feb 2012 #80

That only proves we have antibiotics. Warpy Feb 2012 #123

Didn't seem to help the 3 people who died in 2007 from drinking pasteurized milk Major Nikon Feb 2012 #129

LOL! flvegan Feb 2012 #11

I live in the sticks Aerows Feb 2012 #31

Louis Pasteur was in the pocket of Big Farm from day one. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #18

Oh my, that foreign country France considers pasteurized cheeses almost a sacrilege. tabatha Feb 2012 #6

Grass-fed, antibiotic/hormone/grain/soy free cows are a wonderful thing. drokhole Feb 2012 #7

Oh my, that foreign country France also believes in government inspections jmowreader Feb 2012 #15

Louis Pasteur was a pathetic imposter. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #17

Cheese is safer than the raw milk it's made from mainer Feb 2012 #34

Cheese would be safer than milk Nikia Feb 2012 #77

Wow, it didn't take the pro-disease lobby long to show up. LeftyMom Feb 2012 #8

Another "pasteurized milk" incident Major Nikon Feb 2012 #12

you do realize that pasteurization would have Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #19

How can pasteurization prevent pathogen growth after pasteurization? Major Nikon Feb 2012 #37

Well if you have a contaminated valve that is located after the paseurization Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #39

Exactly Major Nikon Feb 2012 #42

But pasteurization after this contamination would have fixed this problem. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #46

So are you saying the milk should be pasteurized twice? Major Nikon Feb 2012 #51

It's very much like improperly prepared vaccines where the virus is left alive. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #52

You do realize that pasteurization is not the same as sterilization, yes? Major Nikon Feb 2012 #56

Quite aware. You do realize that vaccines aren't sterilized either, right? nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #57

It is unlikely that there would be post pasteurization contamination Nikia Feb 2012 #74

Unlikely, yes. Does it happen, yes. Major Nikon Feb 2012 #93

Pasteurized milk is still a medium for bacterial growth so it has to be packaged and handled yellowcanine Feb 2012 #138

Your CDC link doesn't refute what I said Major Nikon Feb 2012 #142

Actually it does. And as for "it should be available to those who want it" ok but not for children yellowcanine Feb 2012 #146

Please Major Nikon Feb 2012 #147

Raw milk makes few people sick because not that many people drink raw milk. yellowcanine Feb 2012 #149

Exactly! Major Nikon Feb 2012 #152

So how many sick or dead children is ok to risk just so a few can have raw milk? yellowcanine Feb 2012 #153

Yes it's always about the kids, isn't it? Major Nikon Feb 2012 #157

Yes it is about the kids because adults are making choices for them which put them at risk. A civil yellowcanine Feb 2012 #160

I don't think you understand what an emotion based argument is Major Nikon Feb 2012 #161

I would point out that you brought up "Its about the kids". So what were you trying to evoke? yellowcanine Feb 2012 #162

Also for restaurants MattBaggins Feb 2012 #155

Tell me more about how sheep's bladders can be employed to prevent earthquakes. LeftyMom Feb 2012 #136

Mobilize the SWAT teams. pa28 Feb 2012 #13

Cow milk (especially raw) is good for calves. That's about it. nt Liquorice Feb 2012 #14

did you grow up on a dairy too? blueamy66 Feb 2012 #24

I did and I drank raw milk also. But I wouldn't dream of buying raw milk and giving it to my child yellowcanine Feb 2012 #151

I agree. blueamy66 Feb 2012 #159

Why am I still unconvinced raw milk is bad for me? zonkers Feb 2012 #20

Because it isn't. terip64 Feb 2012 #26

As for raw milk cheeses MattBaggins Feb 2012 #156

Brucellosis is generally the one you think about with raw milk and cheese... moriah Feb 2012 #22

I have been drinking raw milk for almost ten years... terip64 Feb 2012 #25

Me too Aerows Feb 2012 #28

raw milk cheddar cheese is safe to eat mainer Feb 2012 #105

Stilton is bad then? Aerows Feb 2012 #120

You might want to let it mature a little; same with Wensleydale. FarCenter Feb 2012 #121

LMAO, I guess like this conversation, too Aerows Feb 2012 #128

I grew up drinking raw milk, as did most of our neighbors. Arkansas Granny Feb 2012 #32

we never had any vaccinations growing up Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #35

I smoked for over 30 years and am one of the healthiest people I know. Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #79

You can't get raw milk in stores in most states. I don't think that equating smoking with drinking terip64 Feb 2012 #97

To each his own. "The health benefits are great," until it kills you? Some say it might. Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #131

Hot dogs are one of the deadliest foods Major Nikon Feb 2012 #132

Too true, too true. Everything in moderation, I guess. nt Honeycombe8 Feb 2012 #134

The validity of the comparison is that in each case one is taking an unnecessary risk. yellowcanine Feb 2012 #141

The benefits of drinking raw milk are far from few. terip64 Feb 2012 #144

Well for whatever reason people do get sick. It is easy to say, well that farm did not use the yellowcanine Feb 2012 #145

Exactly -- and, if it was legal there would be uniform standards obamanut2012 Feb 2012 #139

I love milk Aerows Feb 2012 #27

it's like the idiotic seatbelt and helmet laws. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #36

Your responses in this thread have nailed it... SidDithers Feb 2012 #50

Thanks. This is one of those topics I'm passionate about. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #53

Where does the passion come from? I am curious because I truly love my raw milk terip64 Feb 2012 #100

You need to supplement the milk with colloidal silver though. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #107

Food is a sensitive subject Aerows Feb 2012 #83

I could not agree more. People don't understand the health benefits that we experience. terip64 Feb 2012 #99

I loved the raw milk I grew up drinking in Missoula, Montana - tasted great - but if that Campylobac LiberalLoner Feb 2012 #29

I used to work in a dairy. MineralMan Feb 2012 #38

I wouldn't risk raw ungulate milk mrs_p Feb 2012 #43

*** cringes *** I was infected with Campylobacter. It was not pretty at all! LynneSin Feb 2012 #44

I got food poisoning from sushi at a mongolian restaurant Aerows Feb 2012 #84

That's what happens when "raw milk" is driven underground. mwooldri Feb 2012 #48

Only 7% of French cheeses are now raw milk. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #49

That's because import rules require it Major Nikon Feb 2012 #54

Nope. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #55

If you're going to try and contradict someone, it might be a good idea to actually do so Major Nikon Feb 2012 #58

I thought you had the ability to click on the hyperlink. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #59

Your link in no way supported your contradiction Major Nikon Feb 2012 #62

Let's go to the link. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #64

When raw milk is against the law, only outlaws will have raw milk. /nt downwardly_mobile Feb 2012 #110

Federal issue MattBaggins Feb 2012 #158

Pick your poisons, choose your battles. morningfog Feb 2012 #65

I like feeling the wind through my hair as I ride my motorcyle. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #67

Who am I to judge? Knock yourself out. morningfog Feb 2012 #69

It's preferable to rely on the expertise and diligence of a smaller number of bottling plants FarCenter Feb 2012 #66

Death rate per year- Raw milk:0, Alcohol: 75,000 renie408 Feb 2012 #68

Do you attribute that to the safety of raw milk or the prevalence of pasteurized milk? Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #70

Speaking for myself, I am not here to disparage pasteurization. I am here to defend morningfog Feb 2012 #71

Personal choice, OK. But milk is consumed by children and infants who have no choice. mainer Feb 2012 #86

Again, a slippery slope. renie408 Feb 2012 #87

Should we ban cantaloupe also? Major Nikon Feb 2012 #94

How quickly we forget our medical history mainer Feb 2012 #96

Indeed, you should understand medical history if you really want to understand the problem Major Nikon Feb 2012 #127

Gee, I wonder how many refrigerators people had available in 1938? renie408 Feb 2012 #72

So when scientists credit pasteurization with preventing milkbourne disease Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #73

No, I am sure pasteurization helps to prevent milk borne pathogens. renie408 Feb 2012 #75

So the people in the 30's and 40's didn't know their dairies or Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #76

I have decided that we need to ban motorcycles. People don't NEED to ride motorcycles and they are renie408 Feb 2012 #78

how do motorcyle deaths compare to milkbourne illness before pasteurizaton? nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #81

Ok, let me try this ONE MORE TIME and without assuming that you could infer my meaning. renie408 Feb 2012 #85

"Raw milk produces a minimal amount of illness and no deaths reported in the past decade." Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #88

Ok, so you are going with the 'ignore my point' option... renie408 Feb 2012 #89

Which point was that? nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #90

The one in post #85 that I outlined in detail. You just keep skipping over it. renie408 Feb 2012 #92

Not sure you made a point there, but I'll take a stab at what I think you mean Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #101

Then why didn't you get vaccinated growing up?? renie408 Feb 2012 #103

I've never received a vaccination. Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #104

Oh, and my point about refrigeration renie408 Feb 2012 #82

Check this out... terip64 Feb 2012 #102

It's just like how they sold vaccinations to an unsuspecting public. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #106

Yes, there was also the demonization of coconut oil tabatha Feb 2012 #109

Let's step back and look at the numbers... mainer Feb 2012 #98

Yes, lets look at the numbers. tabatha Feb 2012 #112

Wait, you're disputing it because the deaths are from "raw milk cheese" and not "raw milk"? mainer Feb 2012 #114

Have you read the other posts on this thread. tabatha Feb 2012 #115

No, the statement is that SOME raw milk cheeses are OK mainer Feb 2012 #116

So ya think that during aging that things can go awry? tabatha Feb 2012 #117

the point is, the closer to raw milk the product is mainer Feb 2012 #119

But the source did not cause the death. tabatha Feb 2012 #122

To the raw milk supporters in this thread: I DON'T DRINK WITH YOU! downwardly_mobile Feb 2012 #111

Geez, I am a white person that likes listening to authentic African music tabatha Feb 2012 #113

I don't think you actually know what a mudroom is obamanut2012 Feb 2012 #140

One of only TWO raw milk dairies in California mainer Feb 2012 #118

Hey, they have corrected their story. tabatha Feb 2012 #124

20 billion gallons pasteurized milk produced a year mainer Feb 2012 #126

Not being able to detect e coli in samples is not at all unusual. yellowcanine Feb 2012 #150

Despite opposition, N.J. Assembly committee OKs DiMaio bill allowing sale of raw milk FarCenter Feb 2012 #125

All in all, bvar22 Feb 2012 #130

yup zappaman Feb 2012 #133

Bee to the U to the double L SHIT! I am the OP Feb 2012 #143

What would happen if you filtered raw milk KamaAina Feb 2012 #148

I grew up on a dairy Horse with no Name Feb 2012 #154