General Discussion

uppityperson

(116,020 posts)

220. As far as the need to rearrange their lives, they are the same. Having a child, whether by birth or

Reply to Th1onein (Reply #219)

Thu Feb 9, 2012, 01:22 AM

Feb 2012

adoption, you have to rearrange your life just the same.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

227 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Q for �Pro-Lifers�: How many kids have you ADOPTED from [View all] ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2012 OP

a big hearty recommendation handmade34 Feb 2012 #1

Post removed Post removed Feb 2012 #29

according to anti-abortion handmade34 Feb 2012 #36

I support a woman's right to privacy and have NOT ended any lives... Spazito Feb 2012 #43

Pro Deathers? Sheepshank Feb 2012 #49

Allow me to brag. 2ndAmForComputers Feb 2012 #145

"Pro deathers"?? renie408 Feb 2012 #59

No one is pro-death, except maybe those execution-happy nutjob governors. Arkana Feb 2012 #75

it's pro-choice. you should call people you insult by the right names. spanone Feb 2012 #102

I've helped save hundreds of women's lives by assuring they didn't use a back alley abortionist, get uppityperson Feb 2012 #106

I'm pro-life/anti-abortion. I've adopted zero children. I think this is a really bad argument. Th1onein Feb 2012 #2

It's NOT a bad argument. Being pro-life means you should act on your beliefs. Zalatix Feb 2012 #3

It is a bad argument. I'm sorry, but it is. Th1onein Feb 2012 #4

So you have a business, you travel constantly, you are the sole support for your family... Zalatix Feb 2012 #7

I don't think they'd let someone who travels on a constant basis take care of a foster child Th1onein Feb 2012 #41

Oh but you ARE an excellent example of of the moral hypocrisy of anti-choicers riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #54

+1!! renie408 Feb 2012 #62

thank you. Good post. That is the gist of it. Thak you. uppityperson Feb 2012 #71

What makes you not able to understand the difference between inconvenient and impossible? Th1onein Feb 2012 #157

Are you deliberately choosing to NOT address the issue. You say it's "impossible" for you riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #158

Once AGAIN...... Th1onein Feb 2012 #161

My kid took a condom from the clinic I worked at and took it to preschool uppityperson Feb 2012 #173

I think the people who want abortion to be illegal noamnety Feb 2012 #48

Not all people who want abortion to be illegal act that way. Some do try to adopt kids. Zalatix Feb 2012 #108

Except Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #58

The FUCK? Arkana Feb 2012 #77

For anyone over the age of consent Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #82

However, the means may not be. And, again, there is always the failure rate. uppityperson Feb 2012 #89

I got pregnant on birth control. How about me? riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #90

Post removed Post removed Feb 2012 #94

You are comparing a legal medical procedure to child abuse? Seriously? uppityperson Feb 2012 #114

Post removed Post removed Feb 2012 #121

I believe a human fetus is a fetus, but that the mother's rights far outweigh it. uppityperson Feb 2012 #123

Honestly Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #128

What rights should a pregnant woman give up? uppityperson Feb 2012 #136

Condescend much? Beyond reprehensible to compare a woman's right to make a private health decision riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #129

But contraceptives may not be available. xmas74 Feb 2012 #142

Well then just say no! Don't force that baby into you by having sex you uppityperson Feb 2012 #144

I know! xmas74 Feb 2012 #153

Every type of contraception has a failure rate. Every type. Yours is not a strong argument either. uppityperson Feb 2012 #88

Yep, every type of BC has a failure rate during/after intercourse. Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #96

I've met lots of folks who say their pg was an accident and they were using contraception uppityperson Feb 2012 #103

How can "just say no" ever fail Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #105

Here are a few situations. uppityperson Feb 2012 #107

" Except for the case of rape,...." Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #110

I was expanding on what "rape" means. Let's not use that term then and try this situation. uppityperson Feb 2012 #112

I would say so Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #113

"just say no" can fail even if it actually used by the woman because the man didn't go along. uppityperson Feb 2012 #115

Then it is rape Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #118

Since you asked how just say no would fail "if actually used", that last bit is the kicker. uppityperson Feb 2012 #120

If someone believes a fetus Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #125

I know that is how some view abortion. Do you view it that way? uppityperson Feb 2012 #130

It is sad Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #135

Why should a human be killed simply because it was made without the mother's free choice? uppityperson Feb 2012 #140

But the fetus isn't a human being. And it's the woman's private decision on what she chooses to do riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #133

Sorry, you lost me at Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #139

You confuse "smarter" with "more civil". Funny way to end a discussion, take offense at a post a uppityperson Feb 2012 #143

Heh, actually I didn't tell YOU specifically to "Fuck off" riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #149

" her actions forced that human being inside her"? What? Her and HIS actions caused an egg/sperm to uppityperson Feb 2012 #134

Birth control fails- very often Tumbulu Feb 2012 #160

I have two friends, both were on the pill newspeak Feb 2012 #204

"There are just too many cheap/easy ways to avoid getting pregnant" - TBF Feb 2012 #213

If I had a baby, I could travel with my baby. Th1onein Feb 2012 #162

How many homeless people do you have living in your house? metalbot Feb 2012 #19

How much income tax do you pay? Yupster Feb 2012 #21

I admit that's a good counter. Zalatix Feb 2012 #22

No, it isn't jeff47 Feb 2012 #27

Thanks Zalatix Feb 2012 #33

Except for the fact Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #61

One can assume a lot of sex will happen, regardless of abortion's legality. jeff47 Feb 2012 #170

Fatally flawed analogy to ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2012 #24

I have taken in many homeless people Th1onein Feb 2012 #42

What about conception resulting from rape? Incest? Carolina Feb 2012 #5

Having a wife who is the product of rape, Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #63

"...I believe that life is precious..." And the woman? Is her life "precious"? Cerridwen Feb 2012 #9

Nope according to pro-lifers like this one, unless they carry the fetus to term, they are MURDERERS! riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #10

They are "murderers" or they are invisible. Cerridwen Feb 2012 #11

Nailed it REP Feb 2012 #12

Is it ethical to murder one innocent person in order to save another? Azathoth Feb 2012 #14

Or how about we get away from RW speak, and take the legal view - this as a privacy issue riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #16

Ethics and philosophy underlie a lot of laws Azathoth Feb 2012 #32

I don't see any one comment as an "argument ender". riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #40

Point taken Azathoth Feb 2012 #183

If you just take a legal view Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #64

I believe a woman's right to a private medical decision with her doctor is a moral choice riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #80

I and many Americans think of a fetus as gradually developing personhood Nikia Feb 2012 #51

I'm curious Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #99

I guess that one is now living indepedently and the other isn't Nikia Feb 2012 #127

My personal belief is that this is a real-world example of the heap paradox Azathoth Feb 2012 #175

and there are different beliefs when it is a human life newspeak Feb 2012 #60

I assume you're referring to that right-wing story floating around Azathoth Feb 2012 #174

yes, that I value my daughter, who is loved by her family newspeak Feb 2012 #205

"Murder" 2ndAmForComputers Feb 2012 #156

What should happen to a woman who drowns her two day old baby in the bathtub? Azathoth Feb 2012 #169

What doctor aborts the day before a woman would give birth? uppityperson Feb 2012 #172

That's a dodge Azathoth Feb 2012 #176

since your situation is pretty much impossible, not a dodge at all. uppityperson Feb 2012 #180

Uh, yes, it's a dodge Azathoth Feb 2012 #181

I thought you were asking if I thought it "should" be legal. According to fed law, it is but uppityperson Feb 2012 #182

My question was in response to a challenge Azathoth Feb 2012 #184

I think you are saying that there should be no abortions after 27 weeks because "the chances are uppityperson Feb 2012 #186

See my post #190. I've been distracted by other topics tonight, and work. But fyi. nt riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #191

OK. Elective abortion in the third month. Murder? Not murder? Why? 2ndAmForComputers Feb 2012 #187

Well, we have to draw a line somewhere Azathoth Feb 2012 #189

Nope, docs and ethicists are universal that "brain dead" people are fair game for termination right? riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #190

First, docs and ethicists are not universal for "termination" Azathoth Feb 2012 #200

"The only logical, morally safe conclusion is that abortion should be considered murder at any point uppityperson Feb 2012 #197

Try reading all my posts before making yourself look foolish Azathoth Feb 2012 #201

You needn't worry about MY looking foolish but thanks for your concern. uppityperson Feb 2012 #208

Of course the woman's life is precious Th1onein Feb 2012 #44

But in the end you value the blastocyst over the full grown woman. riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #55

Let's take that similar stance with the Castle Doctrine Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #66

I don't understand your post. riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #81

I'm simply pointing out Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #84

So you are saying the woman's life is worth less than the embryo. riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #86

Total miscommunication Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #87

Which is more important? My getting out of poverty and an abuse situation or the life of an embryo? uppityperson Feb 2012 #92

If you are in poverty, you shouldn't Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #95

Don't believe in abortion? Then don't have one. smokey nj Feb 2012 #98

Silly, meaningless platitude. Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #101

You find abortion to be morally questionable. I don't. smokey nj Feb 2012 #159

Just say no, eh? Here is what abusive situations, poverty, pregnancy have in common uppityperson Feb 2012 #100

If you believe a fetus is a human Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #104

A human fetus is a human. A dog fetus is a dog. A woman's rights outweigh a fetus's. uppityperson Feb 2012 #109

Thank you. renie408 Feb 2012 #122

((*)) uppityperson Feb 2012 #124

Change "abusive" to "dependent". She is dependent upon him for a place to live, food to eat, etc uppityperson Feb 2012 #154

So now you're also saying poor people shouldn't have kids??!! Really? nt riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #126

Aw, come on rider. Only people who are financially well off should have kids. The rest of us uppityperson Feb 2012 #131

Your doing better than me. I presume one of my posts upthread is going to be juried out riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #138

There is a difference Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #146

Retroactive abortion. uppityperson Feb 2012 #148

Yes because they should have had xray vision into the future! riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #151

What, in your opinion, should happen to those who cannot afford to take care of themselves and uppityperson Feb 2012 #150

What should happen to them? Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #155

NO, I don't think that. That's why I think abortion should be safe and legal. n/t renie408 Feb 2012 #152

Castles? I almost died laughing BEFORE I read your argument. Zalatix Feb 2012 #116

Why does it necessarily cost her in all of those ways? Th1onein Feb 2012 #163

It can cost her her life! You don't get to make a life and death decision for her, only she does. riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #165

Adopting a child is not an option for many people. Are they all hypocrits? Th1onein Feb 2012 #192

Wow! Just wow! Your ASSumption that anyone who gets pregnant can just simply "have" the child riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #195

Did you know that 1/3 of all pregnancies end in miscarriage? Looking at your last line, I bet you uppityperson Feb 2012 #199

No, I didn't. Neither did the Mayo Clinic Th1onein Feb 2012 #216

" But the actual number is probably much higher because many miscarriages occur so early in... uppityperson Feb 2012 #217

bearing a child is a life threatening thing to do Tumbulu Feb 2012 #167

So you're willing to create a problem, but you're not willing to do anything to help solve it? jeff47 Feb 2012 #13

But she's supporting family! And she has a great job! And travels - no time for a child now! riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #15

I find it interesting that newspeak Feb 2012 #65

What I am saying is that giving life should not be a problem in a healthy society. Th1onein Feb 2012 #45

You've admitted that a child in your life would be a problem. You want to speak in generalities riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #56

The OP spoke in generalities, as well. This is what I was responding to. Th1onein Feb 2012 #193

You made it personal. Deal with it. riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #196

++++++++++++ uppityperson Feb 2012 #198

Now, we're WAY off the topic. WOW. Th1onein Feb 2012 #215

Sorry, but your argument has already suffered a .50-caliber headshot. Zalatix Feb 2012 #117

I would not be allowed to adopt a child under my current circumstances. Th1onein Feb 2012 #164

"I would not be allowed to adopt a child under my current circumstances" was not your original Zalatix Feb 2012 #168

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. Th1onein Feb 2012 #194

I am for the right to a legal, hygienic abortion, not "for abortion". Also anti-war, cap punishment. uppityperson Feb 2012 #119

Is there something wrong with your money? jeff47 Feb 2012 #177

If you take responsibility for forcing this "precious life" into the world... prairierose Feb 2012 #17

So, someone in prison should adopt a child? Th1onein Feb 2012 #46

No, but you don't appear to be in either category, Throckmorton Feb 2012 #53

Getting further and further away from the topic, I see. Th1onein Feb 2012 #225

So what can they do to support mothers that choose not to abort? Throckmorton Feb 2012 #226

A lot of things.... Th1onein Feb 2012 #227

So can a woman going to prison or suffering a terminal illness terminate a pregnancy riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #57

OK, so... xfundy Feb 2012 #18

A child isn't precious enough to rearrange YOUR life around, but other women should be made to do? LeftyMom Feb 2012 #23

Alas... handmade34 Feb 2012 #35

If I rearranged my life, I wouldn't be ABLE to take care of a child. Th1onein Feb 2012 #47

Don't you think pregnant women might be in the same boat? LeftyMom Feb 2012 #171

There is a difference between being allowed to adopt a child and being pregnant with a child. Th1onein Feb 2012 #219

As far as the need to rearrange their lives, they are the same. Having a child, whether by birth or uppityperson Feb 2012 #220

That much is true, but that's not the topic. Th1onein Feb 2012 #222

1 thing I'd like to see is decent affordable daycare for those who want it and better paid for provi uppityperson Feb 2012 #223

It is a wedge issue. Th1onein Feb 2012 #224

Oh, do tell? LeftyMom Feb 2012 #221

Isn't that special. Throckmorton Feb 2012 #52

No, but it's awfully irresponsible of you Arkana Feb 2012 #72

I understand your chosing to never have an abortion. Why should you limit my choice? uppityperson Feb 2012 #73

Neither did the mothers/fathers who had them. kiranon Feb 2012 #111

Well, until you and all the other "pro-lifers" in this country.... BlueDemKev Feb 2012 #132

Can I make you a few questions? 2ndAmForComputers Feb 2012 #141

K&R. nt Chorophyll Feb 2012 #6

+10000. nt riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #8

So you're actually saying that these kids in foster care Yupster Feb 2012 #20

No--NOT 'better off dead' ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2012 #25

Why don't you go start telling them Yupster Feb 2012 #30

I see. Do you agree with Newt ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2012 #67

Yep. I remember that VERY well. BlueDemKev Feb 2012 #137

No one fucking said that. You're strawmanning the hell out of the argument and you know it. Arkana Feb 2012 #74

Reread the first sentence of the second paragraph Yupster Feb 2012 #166

Your reasoning seems to suffer from a bizarre ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2012 #188

No, she's saying that if one wants to add more kids to the foster system jeff47 Feb 2012 #28

Amen my friend. Denver Progressive Feb 2012 #26

How about, just worry about your own damn body Warren DeMontague Feb 2012 #31

That's the much better argument we should be having IMHO Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2012 #37

We tried, but... meaculpa2011 Feb 2012 #34

Sounds like a wonderful life, ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2012 #38

Both Peru and Guatemala have severely restrictive abortion laws as I'm sure you know. riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #39

What a wonderful CHOICE you made. renie408 Feb 2012 #68

My wife and I, both in our fourties, had no problem adopting a child in Connecticut. Throckmorton Feb 2012 #70

Did you go through State Child ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2012 #79

State Child and Family Department Throckmorton Feb 2012 #83

Heck, I'd be happy noamnety Feb 2012 #50

I hate this subject. renie408 Feb 2012 #69

I don't think anyone should judge you either. Jennicut Feb 2012 #76

There are manymanymany reasons and the choice has to be up to the individual. uppityperson Feb 2012 #78

Thanks. renie408 Feb 2012 #85

I know. I hate these threads too. Your story is important though riderinthestorm Feb 2012 #93

All �Pro-Lifers� should support gay adoption pintobean Feb 2012 #91

And contraceptives. Don't forget contraceptives. 2ndAmForComputers Feb 2012 #147

Amen to both of those. Th1onein Feb 2012 #218

Life is precious. A fetus is not life. Taverner Feb 2012 #97

Biologists have given up on the question "What is alive?" jeff47 Feb 2012 #178

By all legitimate definitions it is life. Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #179

Go ahead and define what is alive jeff47 Feb 2012 #206

I shall defer to Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #210

No, you can't punt on the definition of life if you want to hang your anti-abortion stance on it jeff47 Feb 2012 #211

Punt? You think deferring to a referenced source Kellerfeller Feb 2012 #212

It's punting when your source doesn't actually have a definition jeff47 Feb 2012 #214

So what's your point? Renew Deal Feb 2012 #209

I wish I could rec all the pro-choice Lunacee2012 Feb 2012 #185

My biological half-brother and sister were adopted from foster care, at ages 3 and 12 respectively. moriah Feb 2012 #202

'Wish there were more like them'. Amen. ProgressiveEconomist Feb 2012 #203

Burritos are murder sudopod Feb 2012 #207