General Discussion

JVS

(61,935 posts)

192. I think it's worthwhile to consider if it's ethical to pay for an expensive operation for one dog...

Wed May 22, 2013, 07:38 PM

May 2013

when there are lots of other "unique beings in their own right" waiting for an owner to appear and take them from an animal shelter. Or to put it more in terms of a question: since the number of dog owners/caretakers is in short supply and some dogs are going to be euthanized, is it better to euthanize the sick dogs and adopt the healthy ones or euthanize the healthy ones and put the sick ones through extensive medical procedures?

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Dogs are not people, does anyone else find it weird how some seem to equate the two? [View all] quinnox May 2013 OP

it is crazy datasuspect May 2013 #1

Simplistic bullshit. Hissyspit May 2013 #70

You try to equate what that poster said to... Silent3 May 2013 #299

Nonsense. Hissyspit May 2013 #305

Pet owners live longer. ErikJ May 2013 #311

I agree, it is unbalanced. Usually dogs are better than most people. Katashi_itto May 2013 #71

+1,000,000,000 BuelahWitch May 2013 #76

+another million MNBrewer May 2013 #86

Post removed Post removed May 2013 #94

Floyd, you're spot on. Typical Anthropocentric Crap. byronius May 2013 #129

Actualy Stryder May 2013 #328

Thank You, Thank you life long demo May 2013 #170

+ a million truebluegreen May 2013 #181

and so are cats DesertFlower May 2013 #191

+ Several million more Gemini Cat May 2013 #234

and dolphins, whales, & elephants hopemountain May 2013 #263

+ a gazillion. forestpath May 2013 #238

+ yet another million CrawlingChaos May 2013 #193

Agreed Dragonfli May 2013 #208

The more I know people DBoon May 2013 #239

As the character, Gordon Gekko, observed in Wall Street: Laelth May 2013 #281

PETA doesnt believe in pet ownership. So where you coming from? ErikJ May 2013 #225

We werent talking about PETA so where are you coming from? Katashi_itto May 2013 #268

Here's the OP ErikJ May 2013 #269

That subtext, still doesnt make his "observation" anymore correct Katashi_itto May 2013 #270

OK, it completely threw me. ErikJ May 2013 #272

Yup, although misreading it could happen to anyone, the OP is fairly incoherent in his screed, Katashi_itto May 2013 #274

That's not uncommon with flame-bait. Hissyspit May 2013 #309

You have a point. I didnt look at it like that before. It is pretty much flame bait isnt it. Katashi_itto May 2013 #312

Wait warrior1 May 2013 #2

How long? kentauros May 2013 #3

Ayup alcibiades_mystery May 2013 #10

Do you really want to go there? randome May 2013 #4

Nice monocle. Did you tie that tie? Buzz Clik May 2013 #128

Yes, I always have thought that. Not in a disrespectful way, but closeupready May 2013 #5

plus, they can't go to heaven datasuspect May 2013 #6

Neither can people because there's no such thing. sinkingfeeling May 2013 #14

I think datasuspect would agree with you. Arugula Latte May 2013 #21

james brown had soul datasuspect May 2013 #96

Well, that's an entirely separate level, but I guess closeupready May 2013 #24

i'd like to see a worldwide cataclysmic event datasuspect May 2013 #28

Everyone assumes they will be among the survivors. MineralMan May 2013 #41

Well, if I'm not, I won't care anymore. nt oldhippie May 2013 #48

Well, that's true enough. MineralMan May 2013 #51

They are living beings so they also have souls. RebelOne May 2013 #30

that isn't what the bible says datasuspect May 2013 #31

That's why it's called "Soul Food" snooper2 May 2013 #165

bwa! Kali May 2013 #202

But that's simply not true. RoccoR5955 May 2013 #34

Where did you come from? life long demo May 2013 #172

what about the pets that were dicks? OriginalGeek May 2013 #256

as a Catholic I was were taught they do have souls DBoon May 2013 #242

but they can be blessed? nt hopemountain May 2013 #266

Yes, some churches do an annual blessing of the beasts! bettyellen May 2013 #295

And churches in Siena bless their race horses before the Palio, a famous race. bettyellen May 2013 #296

That's absurd BainsBane May 2013 #246

Agree 100% nt nadine_mn May 2013 #255

They have the same exact rights as people. ZombieHorde May 2013 #87

Human no, part of the family, Yes! mrdmk May 2013 #7

Clearly the human animal is unique and different enough to assign value to life arbitrarily NoOneMan May 2013 #8

Perfect point! n/t UtahLib May 2013 #20

When it's your own furry family member, it is equal Warpy May 2013 #9

Yes, all my dogs have been my children, RebelOne May 2013 #32

dogs are not people Fresh_Start May 2013 #11

I like your response. CrispyQ May 2013 #105

I'm thinking pesticides will eventually kill us all Fresh_Start May 2013 #175

Love your response. I agree with it 100%. eom BlueCaliDem May 2013 #228

I say you can believe whatever you want and I can treat my animals sinkingfeeling May 2013 #12

+++++ hlthe2b May 2013 #15

It is a sign of a sociopath, they openly lack empathy towards the other animals. Dragonfli May 2013 #214

+ a trillion Jamastiene May 2013 #235

I think there is some validity to your point quakerboy May 2013 #271

They are acting on instinct. Cats are predators and born with instinctive hunting behaviors Dragonfli May 2013 #290

im facinated as to where you have learned all this galileoreloaded May 2013 #324

Anthropology classes Dragonfli May 2013 #325

fascinating what passes for an education. galileoreloaded May 2013 #327

you could follow the 19th century view, many do, but anthropology is a real science Dragonfli May 2013 #329

well, with a double masters in sociology and psych galileoreloaded May 2013 #331

i consider cats and dogs 'people' fizzgig May 2013 #13

I firmly believe that love of one's pets, makes for a far better (more compassionate) human being hlthe2b May 2013 #18

Good point. I have never known that to not be true. tridim May 2013 #46

i agree 100 percent fizzgig May 2013 #264

Yes, dogs & cats are people indeed Bryn May 2013 #179

isn't that the truth? fizzgig May 2013 #265

of course not hfojvt May 2013 #16

Actually, I tink cats are our overlords... joeybee12 May 2013 #27

yep, we are servants to the cat CountAllVotes May 2013 #84

Cats are far superior to mere humans. MineralMan May 2013 #44

If you have ever had the privilege of taking care of a cat...you will laugh at this Horse with no Name May 2013 #79

I feed mine before I go to bed AgingAmerican May 2013 #90

Oh my..I thought I was the only one nadine_mn May 2013 #258

My cat said the same thing! And he reads Latin and Greek in addition to speaking fluent "cat." anneboleyn May 2013 #167

I understand that some people think that animals are worth as much as fellow humans. Gormy Cuss May 2013 #17

Perhaps not on an abstract level BainsBane May 2013 #19

Ditto. n/t RebelOne May 2013 #33

same here.... chillfactor May 2013 #254

"Cat" Stevens had this to say about dogs and unconditional love: Art_from_Ark May 2013 #259

You, I guess, still believes in the 19th century notion that we are not animals like Cleita May 2013 #22

that's true - people are not anywhere near as trustworthy Douglas Carpenter May 2013 #23

+10.000 smirkymonkey May 2013 #187

Humans are not any more or less special than any other creatures that inhabit this earth. MadrasT May 2013 #25

^^^^^^ This (The title of Post #25) n/t UTUSN May 2013 #104

it is weird to equate the two yes whatthehey May 2013 #26

Making what claim? Hissyspit May 2013 #58

Tell that to the dogs Puzzledtraveller May 2013 #29

Too cool for words. nt Deep13 May 2013 #38

They're not remotely equal. Lizzie Poppet May 2013 #35

That's not always the cause. Deep13 May 2013 #36

Is this sarcasm life long demo May 2013 #174

"Heartless" is one word. Deep13 May 2013 #186

Could anyone answer the same question if asked life long demo May 2013 #230

re $2K operation=get a new dog truebluegreen May 2013 #183

I think it's worthwhile to consider if it's ethical to pay for an expensive operation for one dog... JVS May 2013 #192

Ought implies can. truebluegreen May 2013 #199

As long as you are throwing cash around, how about a grant to continue my research... Deep13 May 2013 #200

I'm not made out of money. truebluegreen May 2013 #203

I have never met *anyone* who actually gives equal status to all living things. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #226

Well, discursively they value all mammals. Deep13 May 2013 #261

Some people treat their pets as if they were human, though. MineralMan May 2013 #37

That's why I think that a police dog is not the same as a cop. Arctic Dave May 2013 #39

Dogs in loving families are generally considered to be part of the family tridim May 2013 #40

I was taught in philosophy that animals are brutes upaloopa May 2013 #42

I aspire to be as good as every dog I have ever known Coyote_Bandit May 2013 #43

Perfect answer. sibelian May 2013 #55

They are not people because, well. Coyote_Bandit May 2013 #63

:) sibelian May 2013 #73

so you try not to pee and poop on the carpet? datasuspect May 2013 #97

We should slash the federal education budget and use it to fund the purchase of chew toys Orrex May 2013 #45

Totally agree... dogs aren't capable of outright vindictiveness, hatred and sadism like humans kysrsoze May 2013 #47

Interesting angel823 May 2013 #49

To equate dogs with people Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #50

And then there is the whole issue of the mice... Dragonfli May 2013 #218

Sure, but it took the dolphin's "Save the Humans" campaign to get it done. n/t Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #232

Animals feel attachment to each other, to us, fear, pain, are intelligent, conscious. Hissyspit May 2013 #52

You win this thread! idwiyo May 2013 #166

SOME dogs are worth more than SOME allegedly "human" beings. n/t TygrBright May 2013 #53

Dogs often have these same types of conversations among themselves. Buns_of_Fire May 2013 #54

I've never met a dog that I didn't like or who comes across as pretentious, obnoxious, petulant... LanternWaste May 2013 #56

Have you ever met a person who chewed your shoes to pieces? Orrex May 2013 #67

I've run into people who like to shit all over others' posts kysrsoze May 2013 #77

Nope. Still a pointless comparison. Orrex May 2013 #82

Well, then I'll discredit humans for their propensity to commit evil acts kysrsoze May 2013 #89

Adult dogs also hunt in packs and will tear humans to pieces. Orrex May 2013 #99

That was a pathetic argument. Maybe coyotes would attack a baby kysrsoze May 2013 #114

So you appeal to dog-worship in order to deny that dog-worship is a religion? Kooky. Orrex May 2013 #122

Well, then I can't explain why you have such disdain for dog lovers, Mr. Spock kysrsoze May 2013 #134

Predictably, you attack the person who questions your religion Orrex May 2013 #135

This message was self-deleted by its author kysrsoze May 2013 #140

This message was self-deleted by its author kysrsoze May 2013 #141

Predictably, you attack my feelings, opinion, etc., as my "religion." I simply love my animals kysrsoze May 2013 #142

Nope--now you're changing the discussion. Orrex May 2013 #162

Do you really believe your own incredibly reaching claims? kysrsoze May 2013 #196

Nope--wrong again Orrex May 2013 #206

Religious zealot? Come on. You've got to do better than that kysrsoze May 2013 #215

Very well said. UtahLib May 2013 #209

When you see one of those, let me know Orrex May 2013 #217

Oh, I understand your views. I just don't agree kysrsoze May 2013 #219

I wasn't replying to you. Orrex May 2013 #221

I'm not upset at all. This exchange is hilarious kysrsoze May 2013 #222

Yes. I call them infants. LanternWaste May 2013 #81

More to the point, people get pissy when you question their religion Orrex May 2013 #83

Which I believe I addressed earlier with... LanternWaste May 2013 #95

This thread is full of dog worship, not to mention anthopomorphizing of dogs. Orrex May 2013 #111

Is it anthropomorphizing or just greater awareness on shared traits previously claimed as only Hissyspit May 2013 #310

They are family members BainsBane May 2013 #267

I have no problem with the claim that dogs are family members Orrex May 2013 #289

I have. quakerboy May 2013 #275

So, essentially.... sibelian May 2013 #280

In some ways quakerboy May 2013 #314

you think you are special G_j May 2013 #57

Yes it is weird, just as crazy as people that want to ciminalize a breed of dog. Rex May 2013 #59

I find things strange quakerboy May 2013 #276

Small furry people as far as I'm concerned. sibelian May 2013 #60

Guess I'm a whacked out extremist then. pecwae May 2013 #61

I'm not going to blame anyone for caring that much. sofa king May 2013 #62

Awesome reply. :) n/t OneGrassRoot May 2013 #64

I've known of dogs that have better attributes than some people.... snappyturtle May 2013 #65

Love dogs, always have. But think its a bit goofy jmg257 May 2013 #66

Yyyyyyup cherokeeprogressive May 2013 #68

I say I'd rather know a dog, than you. And I'm a cat person. nt justiceischeap May 2013 #69

lol, It looks like a whole lot of repliers should seriously consider joining PETA, if they aren't a quinnox May 2013 #72

Perhaps you should join the Republican Party kysrsoze May 2013 #78

That was good!!!!! life long demo May 2013 #178

:D easttexaslefty May 2013 #194

I don't understand how being capable of empathy towards living things is "colorful" Dragonfli May 2013 #220

Absolutely. Dogs are BETTER than people. Myrina May 2013 #74

Absolutely! Cats are people. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2013 #75

They may not be human. Hatchling May 2013 #80

There is no objective reason to believe one atom is better or worse than any other atom. ZombieHorde May 2013 #85

I wonder if this hypothetical situation might settle the dust. randome May 2013 #88

funny, I was thinking about posting a thread like that quinnox May 2013 #91

Answering wouldn't be the important result, though. Giving the dilemma some thought is good enough. randome May 2013 #98

Ill answer it Floyd_Gondolli May 2013 #100

Wow. I think you'd be in the minority but your honesty is appreciated! randome May 2013 #107

I suspect that some would answer that way quinnox May 2013 #113

Post removed Post removed May 2013 #117

Hey. My daughters are adorable! randome May 2013 #118

Honestly I couldn't care less Floyd_Gondolli May 2013 #120

Whoops! I had a sudden case of post-itis. Time for me to pull back! randome May 2013 #123

We can change the hypothetical subjects to their dogs and you! kysrsoze May 2013 #108

Whoa! Did not see that coming! randome May 2013 #112

I'm just kidding. I don't like hypotheticals, b/c they're just that. See how easily things change? kysrsoze May 2013 #159

i would kill the puppy to save the child datasuspect May 2013 #93

I'm sure the vast majority of people would choose the same. randome May 2013 #103

it would have to be a very bizarre situation datasuspect May 2013 #106

Oh, crap! I wasn't specific enough! randome May 2013 #109

If the scenario involved a dog instead of a puppy, I'm sure the DOG would choose the child, truebluegreen May 2013 #185

Good point. randome May 2013 #233

Unless that child quakerboy May 2013 #277

Sorry. Cindy Lu can't go to the dentist because I spent $2k on the dog. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #229

how about a puppy vs the life of some grown up asshole like Koch Brothers JI7 May 2013 #250

This message was self-deleted by its author AtomicKitten May 2013 #92

Not people??? Libertas1776 May 2013 #101

But as other people have noted, intelligence and "civilization" aren't the only considerations here. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #147

Oh Libertas1776 May 2013 #154

It all depends on what one means by "better." nomorenomore08 May 2013 #157

Well, we make good buddies... Libertas1776 May 2013 #160

My dog is a better person than most of the people I come across. hobbit709 May 2013 #102

"The older I get and the more I see of life and its people, the more I like my dog"...Pascal byeya May 2013 #110

They are. Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #115

Humans are not all that nice or giving or caring at times. Jennicut May 2013 #116

+1 Buzz Clik May 2013 #126

Actually, the Bible says animals do have spirits. raging moderate May 2013 #119

Fine, that wasn't what this thread is about though quinnox May 2013 #121

I say equal or not, it's wrong to set them on fire for a laugh Scootaloo May 2013 #124

This is a fight --war -- that could only occur on a liberal bulletin board. Buzz Clik May 2013 #125

One truly catastrophic worldwide disaster and you'll see how animalistic humans really are Arcanetrance May 2013 #127

"Dogs are not people, and barking is not speech". Nye Bevan May 2013 #130

I wonder if dogs ever get frustrated that humans never life long demo May 2013 #189

You don't have to like dogs, you don't have to like cats hollysmom May 2013 #131

I say you exhibit little empathy and a gift for generalization. And for tempests and teapots. nolabear May 2013 #132

My heavens there must be some very insecure "People" if love of one's pet gets them so hlthe2b May 2013 #133

Well, of course dogs are not 'people' REP May 2013 #136

Good response... Phentex May 2013 #144

Very nice, thank you kysrsoze May 2013 #145

A drowning child or a drowning dog? earthside May 2013 #137

Not to go to far off... Libertas1776 May 2013 #150

A very nuanced answer! randome May 2013 #152

Oh for Pete's sake. easttexaslefty May 2013 #201

I don't find it weird at all... Phentex May 2013 #138

No dogs are not humans but I treat my best friend much better than most treat their children and Thinkingabout May 2013 #139

My husband's guide dog saved his life twice. Yeah, I'd say some dogs are equal to and sometimes liberal_at_heart May 2013 #143

we are all sentient beings. I think it's totally crazy that some people are so species-centric magical thyme May 2013 #146

I'm more of a cat person, honestly, but I do like (most) dogs. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #148

no dogs are not people but the specific dog i love is more important to me La Lioness Priyanka May 2013 #149

I love my GSD but when it comes down to it people win out over dogs. rl6214 May 2013 #151

If you don't get it, you don't get it Blue_Tires May 2013 #153

I don't equate dogs with people. former9thward May 2013 #155

"It is the capacity to suffer that matters, thucythucy May 2013 #156

dogs are people too... ileus May 2013 #158

At the least, they're a species which has been bred to love and depend on humans. nomorenomore08 May 2013 #163

When the chips are down American's rally around the flag. ileus May 2013 #161

Except for dogs. They rally around the nearest tree or fire plug. randome May 2013 #168

If a child and a pet were both trapped in a burning building, which would you rescue? Major Nikon May 2013 #164

I would do the same as I would do if there were two people trapped in a burning building. liberal_at_heart May 2013 #169

It's a hypothetical question Major Nikon May 2013 #173

And as with most hypotheticals, it has little to do with reality. Hissyspit May 2013 #247

More like all hypothetical questions Major Nikon May 2013 #252

If there was a house burning down with a liberal and a republican in it sibelian May 2013 #298

That question is irrelevant to the discussion of dog importance Orrex May 2013 #303

I suppose one could come up with all sorts of other questions and proceed to impeach them Major Nikon May 2013 #316

The thought experiment doesn't answer the question you created it for. Hissyspit May 2013 #306

It does Major Nikon May 2013 #315

How would I know only one could be saved? Hissyspit May 2013 #317

How would you know they could? Major Nikon May 2013 #318

How do I know she couldn't get them all? Hissyspit May 2013 #319

It doesn't matter Major Nikon May 2013 #321

I'm not obfuscating at all. Hissyspit May 2013 #322

I suppose an alternative is... Major Nikon May 2013 #332

I used to think as you. But as I grow older I've come to realize we humans are often Doremus May 2013 #171

I like dogs better than most people. MrSlayer May 2013 #176

I like dogs a whole lot more than Worried senior May 2013 #177

No, I don't think it's weird or crazy at all. n/t KarenS May 2013 #180

Actually I prefer some dogs to some people Rosa Luxemburg May 2013 #182

Dogs are property Go Vols May 2013 #184

Ick. Dogs are property? truebluegreen May 2013 #188

Yes, Dogs and Cats and Goldfish are property Demo_Chris May 2013 #190

Dogs & people are very different. Dogs don't screw each other over for money. DirkGently May 2013 #195

yeah but they might fight to injury over the last crunchy Kali May 2013 #212

That's totally principled though. They're honest about their intentions. DirkGently May 2013 #334

I'd rather spend time with my dogs than human beings like you. tabasco May 2013 #197

in so many ways dogs are better than people nt Celldweller May 2013 #198

no weirder than assuming that all such people are broken or lacking good human relationships fishwax May 2013 #204

equal, not exaclty, but i find my cat's life is worth more than a lot of people's dionysus May 2013 #205

You say that likes it's a bad thing , ....curios why newmember May 2013 #207

No. nt Raine May 2013 #210

The way we treat the most helpless among us shows how civilized we are. baldguy May 2013 #211

I only have one point to make DainBramaged May 2013 #213

LOL! Come on, DB. You read it here. flvegan May 2013 #251

Just dogs, yep if the DU says they are just dgs they are just dogs..... DainBramaged May 2013 #294

Why yes, I do. Dogs only lie about whether or not you've fed them recently. winter is coming May 2013 #216

Two different species, one of which is more dependable and obedient! WinkyDink May 2013 #223

There is a strong strain of misanthropy. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #224

I am under no illusions that my dog is human... NaturalHigh May 2013 #227

Because, in many ways, dogs are SUPERIOR jazzimov May 2013 #231

Don't be silly. Jamastiene May 2013 #236

Ego is a funny thing only shared by humans. flvegan May 2013 #237

The Democrats won. Iggo May 2013 #241

+1 Hissyspit May 2013 #248

Dogs are not people....Dogs are only a reflection of people. kentuck May 2013 #240

Paleolithic humans knew enough to disagree DBoon May 2013 #243

Don't be silly of course dogs aren't people... one_voice May 2013 #244

I'm a yeller dog Democrat... kentuck May 2013 #245

Your title does not match jazzimov May 2013 #249

Dogs aren't people...they are better than people nadine_mn May 2013 #253

I've known some dogs for whom I'd leap into a burning building to save kenny blankenship May 2013 #257

Depends on the dog-- and on tbe person. tblue37 May 2013 #260

We are all animals. defacto7 May 2013 #262

whatevs... get a dog, care for him/her, make him/her part of your family WhaTHellsgoingonhere May 2013 #273

"I wish I was the man my dog thinks I am" Hekate May 2013 #278

What, another kerfuffle, quinnox? n/t aristocles May 2013 #279

I say ... GeorgeGist May 2013 #282

Say what you will about dogs NoPasaran May 2013 #283

OP wrong on so many levels! vankuria May 2013 #284

And why are humans important? burnodo May 2013 #285

Because we possess the capacity to think of ourselves that way? randome May 2013 #287

And that makes us important because... burnodo May 2013 #288

It certainly makes us unique. randome May 2013 #291

As far as im concerned LostOne4Ever May 2013 #286

Of course they aren't. LWolf May 2013 #292

Actually they are more than people RoccoR5955 May 2013 #293

Is the issue is that some think dogs are people, or that they do NOT think dogs are LESS than people dr.strangelove May 2013 #297

If there was a dog-indifferent person and a normal person in a burning building sibelian May 2013 #300

It is quite strange for people to take that position non-jokingly. Pragdem May 2013 #301

Interesting Rorschach test this thread makes Silent3 May 2013 #302

This what I say. I have cats. Try hurting one of them. Ikonoklast May 2013 #304

+ pecwae May 2013 #313

As a people our priorities are clearly in the right place AngryAmish May 2013 #307

I didn't think anyone could add another facet to this thread but you did. randome May 2013 #308

Sometimes it takes seeing the extremes defacto7 May 2013 #326

because you'd never find pics of fat humans or starving dogs? Skittles May 2013 #333

I think its crazy for people to equate other people as equal to any plant or animal Howler May 2013 #320

Sorry, I actually like dogs better than people and certainly smirkymonkey May 2013 #323

If dogs aren't people how do you explain Goofy? Kablooie May 2013 #330