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baldguy

(36,649 posts)
136. So, your objection to the DNA testing is based on a CYA disclaimer on a retailers web store?
Wed May 22, 2013, 08:19 PM
May 2013

OOOKAAAY......



And I'll assume you've given up trying to refute the methodology for selecting the dogs? Good.

Let's see what the actual people who conducted the survey say about the DNA testing. Here's another survey from Levy, et al from 2010:

DNA Analysis:

• MARS VETERINARY™, Lincoln, Nebraska, performed the DNA analyses and reported to have “an average accuracy of 84% in first-generation crossbred dogs of known parentage”
• All of the breeds identified by the adoption agencies were in the MARS database
• Breeds must comprise at least 12.5% of the dog’s make-up to be reported Adopting agencies identifications
• All dogs had been identified as mixed breeds at time of adoption
• 16 dogs had been described as a specific breed mix
• 4 dogs were only identified by a “type” (2 “shepherd” mixes and 2 “terrier” mixes)
• 1 dog had been identified by both a specific breed (Chow Chow) and a “type” (terrier)

DNA and Adoption Agency Comparison
• Only 25% (4/16) of the dogs identified by agencies as specified breed mixes were also identified as the same predominant breeds by DNA (3 were only 12.5% of the dogs’ composition)
• No German Shepherd Dog ancestry was reported by DNA in the 2 dogs identified only as “shepherd mixes” by adoption agencies
• In the 3 dogs described as terrier mixes, a terrier breed was only identified by DNA in one dog
• In 15 of the 16 dogs, DNA analyses identified breeds as predominant that were not proposed by the adoption agencies

CONCLUSIONS
• There is little correlation between dog adoption agencies’ identification of probable breed composition with the identification of breeds by DNA analysis
• Further evaluation of the reliability and validity of visual dog breed identification is warranted
• Justification of current public and private polices pertaining to breed specific regulations should be reviewed

http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/uploaded_files/tinymce/Voith%20poster.pdf


And here's a second survey, confirming the results of the first:
The low percentage of agreement between visual and DNA identification may be partially explained by perception biases. However, DNA identification of the proportion of purebred breeds in mixed breed dogs is not perfect either, nor do the laboratories that provide such analyses claim to be infallible. The average accuracy of identification of the breeds in an individual dog can be expected to decrease as the heterogeneity of its ancestors increases. Canine Heritage™ states that their accuracy of identification of known registered purebred dogs is 99%. Wisdom Panel™ currently reports a 90% average accuracy of identification of F1 crosses of known registered purebred dogs.

http://www.animalfarmfoundation.org/files/Transcribed-Interview-with-Dr_-Victoria-Voith.pdf


Reports of DNA analyses of percentages of purebred dog breed ancestry, while accurate most of the time, are not infallible. The laboratories providing such analyses may have qualifiers in their reports stating that there is an 85% or 90% validity of the results and indicate which results have lower confidence levels. Different testing laboratories may report different results depending on which dogs were used to develop their standards and how the laboratories analyze the samples. As the tests are refined, the same laboratory may report slightly different results at different points in time.

http://www.nathanwinograd.com/linked/misbreed.pdf


Over at least three different surveys, the accuracy of DNA tests used is advertized as being up to 99% from the manufacturers, up to 90% observed for F1 crosses, and up to 85% observed for F2 crosses. In the same surveys, the accuracy for visual breed identification of mixed breeds by professional dog experts ranges from 16% to 43%.

So - FOR A THIRD TIME - if you have any actual peer-reviewed data to show that DNA testing is not accurate, show us. now you need to put up or shut up.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I don't know... one_voice May 2013 #1
I hate dogs. Kill them all and let God sort it out. Buzz Clik May 2013 #2
that looks like aboxer to me, they like to hit people and othr dogs in play, hollysmom May 2013 #4
I'd start with the 'humans'. Look what the hell that we have done with this 'place'... eom Purveyor May 2013 #27
I found the Pitbull: reformist2 May 2013 #3
I'll guess 54 but have no clue. A couple I don't think so, but narrowed down to 4. uppityperson May 2013 #5
As I understand it, the best way to determine the pitbull... Buzz Clik May 2013 #6
I think it's dog 58. Just a guess. I'm no expert... n/t truth2power May 2013 #7
That is my guess too. Control-Z May 2013 #31
That's mean! Xithras May 2013 #8
So sick of the damn pit bull posts. n-t Logical May 2013 #9
It's a mission. defacto7 May 2013 #106
#54 krispos42 May 2013 #10
No fair! You didn't dress the pit bull crosses right for a where's the pit cross challenge... pinboy3niner May 2013 #11
You need to get something to help you relax rustydog May 2013 #12
You obviously haven't considered the pit bulls assisting with breast-feeding in Olive Gardens pinboy3niner May 2013 #16
The claim remains pure horseshit. n/t Chan790 May 2013 #17
It's a trick question anyway... defacto7 May 2013 #107
Oh, dog 79 looks a lot like the doggie my daughter adopted from the pound! Lone_Star_Dem May 2013 #13
Has to be 111 because it's so unlikely NV Whino May 2013 #14
No. DevonRex May 2013 #21
Good post. When "pit bull" attacks are reported, more often than not Luminous Animal May 2013 #15
I think this is a trick question! Lady Freedom Returns May 2013 #18
My son has one like #8 OriginalGeek May 2013 #19
My first choice was DevonRex May 2013 #20
None of the above. eom rdharma May 2013 #22
Wrong again. n/t Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #59
This is the correct answer. eShirl May 2013 #113
58 looks like it has... one_voice May 2013 #23
Dogs rule Zo Zig May 2013 #24
FIND THE PIT BULL!! answers. baldguy May 2013 #25
But I got it right! rdharma May 2013 #28
"Bred to latch on, take down and kill." flvegan May 2013 #29
No. I didn't. rdharma May 2013 #33
Oh goody, a live one. flvegan May 2013 #39
You got it doubly wrong. baldguy May 2013 #30
Riiiiiight! If your family enjoys dog fighting! rdharma May 2013 #35
You saying all families with a pit bull enjoy dog fighting? flvegan May 2013 #40
No, not all. rdharma May 2013 #46
Re-read your post. flvegan May 2013 #53
In modern times Mr. X May 2013 #100
Then all game dogs should be banned. baldguy May 2013 #103
It differs Mr. X May 2013 #121
We don't ignore where the breed originated Scootaloo May 2013 #108
I am owned by one of those vicious German Shepherds FloridaJudy May 2013 #124
One of the most aggressive dogs I've walked was an intact male Puggle. smokey nj May 2013 #130
No dog is suited for an irresponsible owner Scootaloo May 2013 #109
Very interesting breakdown of mixes, thank you. I ruled out the basset, never guessed chow and sprin uppityperson May 2013 #36
wow. excellent. Thanks. robinlynne May 2013 #81
What was the breed identification methodology? XemaSab May 2013 #99
As simple as it says: "We conducted a national survey of dog experts..." baldguy May 2013 #101
Did they use the blood test or the saliva test? XemaSab May 2013 #102
Both can be used to test DNA. Why should it matter? baldguy May 2013 #105
The saliva test is unreliable XemaSab May 2013 #110
"The saliva test is unreliable". On what basis do you make that claim? baldguy May 2013 #116
Try this one on: XemaSab May 2013 #125
So, your objection to the DNA testing is based on a CYA disclaimer on a retailers web store? baldguy May 2013 #136
"an average accuracy of 84% in first-generation crossbred dogs of known parentage" XemaSab May 2013 #146
Um...you do understand that 84% is higher than 43%? baldguy May 2013 #147
Right. You got nothing. baldguy May 2013 #150
I'm apparently as bad at this as everyone else Scootaloo May 2013 #104
Wow! GoCubsGo May 2013 #123
Aren't the American Staffordshire Terrier and the American Pit Bull Terrier two different types, blueamy66 May 2013 #129
25% of a particular breed is considered "predominant". baldguy May 2013 #134
But, the AmStaff isn't a pit bull, correct? blueamy66 May 2013 #135
. baldguy May 2013 #138
Whatever blueamy66 May 2013 #140
DU has been talking about this for 2 weeks, & there are literally a million web sites on the subject baldguy May 2013 #141
Okay blueamy66 May 2013 #142
An hour is up, I'm going to bed. TheCowsCameHome May 2013 #26
I bet he's going to tell us they all have pitbull in them. Baitball Blogger May 2013 #32
Hey baldguy, oddly enough flvegan May 2013 #34
Yeah, funny that. baldguy May 2013 #37
This works just the same as you trying to figure out what an assault weapon is. CokeMachine May 2013 #54
. baldguy May 2013 #70
No "Pit Bulls" shown........... rdharma May 2013 #38
You again? flvegan May 2013 #41
Look at post #22 rdharma May 2013 #49
Being wrong is easy. Occulus May 2013 #139
No, there isn't! rdharma May 2013 #143
The last one shown above. Dog #111. Occulus May 2013 #145
Oh, brother! rdharma May 2013 #148
Not odd at all. They are typical Americans, living in terror of the extremely unlikely Egalitarian Thug May 2013 #57
Hm. Good post. flvegan May 2013 #85
Put them in a room with somebody and see which one mauls the person to death Orrex May 2013 #42
^^^ Doesn't know shit about dogs. n/t flvegan May 2013 #43
^^^Posts as though he knows a great deal more than he does. n/t Orrex May 2013 #45
^^^ Clueless, and should prove up his claim or shut up. n/t flvegan May 2013 #48
^^^Doesn't know what "n/t" means Orrex May 2013 #50
^^^ Has nothing to add, proves my point in reference to clueless. n/t flvegan May 2013 #52
^^^Thinks PETA is a serious organization but calls me clueless Orrex May 2013 #56
^^^ Can't argue his way out of a wet paper bag. n/t flvegan May 2013 #60
^^^Takes the bait every single time but thinks I'm clueless Orrex May 2013 #62
^^^ STILL can't properly argue a point. Is laughable at best. n/t flvegan May 2013 #66
^^^Hook, line & sinker every single time Orrex May 2013 #68
^^^ Reaffirmation of cluelessness. Address what you said, please. n/t flvegan May 2013 #71
^^^How do you keep a pit bull apologist in suspense? Orrex May 2013 #73
Post removed Post removed May 2013 #77
^^^How do you keep a pit bull apologist in suspense? Orrex May 2013 #78
^^^ I just happend on this thread... pinboy3niner May 2013 #82
Hold my beer and watch this ^<^><^>^<^>^<>^<^ TheCowsCameHome May 2013 #114
I think the poster has proven that they're clueless. baldguy May 2013 #51
Not the first time on this topic, sadly. flvegan May 2013 #55
How about this definition: ozone_man May 2013 #153
Anything with four legs & a tail, huh? baldguy May 2013 #47
Lmao!!! darkangel218 May 2013 #84
Oh crap! I have pit bull! Gormy Cuss May 2013 #87
. LWolf May 2013 #115
DUzy! Not this post but the whole slap fight following. nolabear May 2013 #83
Dog 58. n/t RebelOne May 2013 #44
No pit bulls above......... rdharma May 2013 #58
Again, you? flvegan May 2013 #61
Again....... I got the "trick question" correct! rdharma May 2013 #65
See post #64. No need to tell you twice. n/t flvegan May 2013 #72
Hate to tell you, but posting stupid twice doesn't make it any less stupid. baldguy May 2013 #64
baldguy with the bigtime win! LOL!!!! flvegan May 2013 #67
So why are you posting multiple times trying to defend your OP? rdharma May 2013 #69
Because it's defenseless, like those poor, sweet, cuddly pit bulls Orrex May 2013 #75
If you've seen one pit bull, you've seen a maul Orrex May 2013 #63
^^^^ unblock May 2013 #126
Your logic makes no sense. Courtesy Flush May 2013 #74
Can you spell FLAMEBAIT? nm rhett o rick May 2013 #76
There are 24 dogs that are part American Staffordshire Terrier or Staffordshire Bull Terrier baldguy May 2013 #80
I didn't incorrectly identify! rdharma May 2013 #89
Three times. baldguy May 2013 #90
Three times correct! rdharma May 2013 #92
58 89 111 Politicalboi May 2013 #79
Instead... deathrind May 2013 #86
Pit Bulls don't harm people with any greater frequency than other dogs do. baldguy May 2013 #88
Show me the data. deathrind May 2013 #91
What happened with the "Find the Pit Bull" game? rdharma May 2013 #93
It's been done. baldguy May 2013 #94
No! Don't need guard dogs. rdharma May 2013 #95
You are the one... deathrind May 2013 #97
You're the one saying they are more dangerous. baldguy May 2013 #98
Look at the numbers. deathrind May 2013 #117
The Clifton Report? Is this a joke? baldguy May 2013 #122
Curse you! Ohio Joe May 2013 #96
pit bull defenders are no different than the gun fetishists bowens43 May 2013 #111
You finally drove me over the edge. I would never say this under ordinary circumstances. randome May 2013 #112
if a dog shows a propensity for agression (breed) or actual agression, destroy it galileoreloaded May 2013 #118
GD has really gone to the dogs. marmar May 2013 #119
It's the pits, man. randome May 2013 #120
that's bull, dawg! unblock May 2013 #127
I think it is safe to say that baldguy is putting on the dog, at the very least. Nimajneb Nilknarf May 2013 #132
I don't know what a pit bull looks like, but Dog 89 looks like the curr that micturated on my boots. Nimajneb Nilknarf May 2013 #128
#54. Jazzgirl May 2013 #131
Wikipedia's BSL page whatchamacallit May 2013 #133
I don't have a dog in this fight (mine's a Sheltie), but 1. that's a Wikipedia page ScreamingMeemie May 2013 #152
Found it. NCTraveler May 2013 #137
K&R DainBramaged May 2013 #144
8 & 58?? LiberalElite May 2013 #149
solution Trajan May 2013 #151
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