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Divernan

(15,480 posts)
17. Remember to always insert "American" before "men" in this article.
Sat May 25, 2013, 09:52 AM
May 2013

As a graduate student, back in the 60's, I met, worked with and socialized with men and women from many countries and cultures. That's when I experienced social graces and charm far beyond any slight examples of those I had experienced in American culture. (I grew up in considerable financial comfort in the Midwest and I had seen kindness and generosity - but those are not the same as charm.) Throughout my adult life, up to and including recent travels to the EU and Asia, I continue to see charm in social and business settings. Meanwhile, back in the States, men (and women) have become increasingly either pushy, brash and greedy or insecure, frightened and needy. Charm would just get in the way of those whose focus is material gain - mortgage brokers and hedge fund traders don't need no stinkin' charm! For those at the other end of the income spectrum, finding employment, paying off student loans, etc., leaves no time or energy to develop or practice charm. Since many of them have never even been exposed to charm, they have no idea of its existence.

On the whole, I treasure people with charm. The exceptions are sociopaths and politicians.
I've worked with hundreds of politicians at local, state and federal levels. The higher they rise, the more of them have achieved prominence through a smooth glibness & faux sincerity which should not be mistaken for charm. At best, it's a corrupted subset of charm, easily distinguished by the fact that their "charm" is limited to their promise-filled speeches, but not carried through in their deeds or actions. Sociopaths are similarly quite charming and manipulative but untrustworthy.

More excerpts from the OP's linked article:

Grant had developed a new way to interact with a woman onscreen: he treated his leading lady as both a sexually attractive female and an idiosyncratic personality, an approach that often required little more than just listening to her—a tactic that had previously been as ignored in the pictures as it remains, among men, in real life. His knowing but inconspicuously generous style let the actress’s performance flourish, making his co-star simultaneously regal and hilarious.

Charm is a quality that is tantalizing because it simultaneously demands detachment and engagement. Only the self-aware can have charm: It’s bound up with a sensibility that at best approaches wisdom, or at least worldliness, and at worst goes well beyond cynicism. It can’t exist in the undeveloped personality. It’s an attribute foreign to many men because most are, for better and for worse, childlike. These days, it’s far more common among men over 70—probably owing to the era in which they reached maturity rather than to the mere fact of their advanced years. What used to be called good breeding is necessary (but not sufficient) for charm: no one can be charming who doesn’t draw out the overlooked, who doesn’t shift the spotlight onto others—who doesn’t, that is, possess those long-forgotten qualities of politesse and civilité. All of these acts can be performed only by one at ease with himself yet also intensely conscious of himself and of his effect on others. Another word for the lightness of touch that charm requires in humor, conversation, and all other aspects of social relations is subtlety, which carries both admirable and dangerous connotations.

Male charm is all but absent from the screen because it’s all but absent from our lives. Most men hold charm in vague suspicion: few cultivate it; still fewer respond to it; hardly any know whether they have it; and almost none can even identify it. Women commonly complain about the difficulty in gaining any conversational purchase when, say, trying to engage the fathers of their children’s classmates or the husbands of their tennis partners. The woman will grab from her bag of conversational gambits—she’ll allude to some quotidian absurdity or try to form a mock alliance in defiance of some teacher’s or soccer coach’s irksome requirement. But the man doesn’t enter into the give-and-take. The next time they meet, it’s as though they’ve never talked before; the man invariably fails to pick up the ball, and any reference the woman might make to a prior remark or observation falls to the ground. Men don’t indulge in the easy shared confidences and nonsexual flirtations that lubricate social exchange among women. Even in the most casual conversation, men are too often self-absorbed or mono-focused or—more commonly—guarded, distracted, and disengaged to an almost Aspergerian degree. (Garner’s futile efforts to engage the unengageable—be they flinty triggermen from Detroit or by-the-book feds—is a running gag in Rockford.) Men consistently fail to meet the sort of obvious standards set by guides to etiquette and to the art of conversation common 50 years ago.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Let me just put this out there... Democracyinkind May 2013 #1
Attractive, but not particularly charming. WorseBeforeBetter May 2013 #83
Whenever this same type of article is written about women, Quantess May 2013 #2
Charmer or bullshit artist? MattBaggins May 2013 #15
Except the problem is not with men in this case, it's with Hollywood Warpy May 2013 #54
George Clooney alright...... A HERETIC I AM May 2013 #3
i guess you never met me datasuspect May 2013 #4
Mind sweeping that up? It's sticky. n/t A HERETIC I AM May 2013 #5
I WILL KICK CHARM-SECRETING DATASUSPECT ASS Skittles May 2013 #78
I know this is mostly about movie stars but I would say that Obama is a charming man. CTyankee May 2013 #6
I thought EXACTLY the same thing! n/t dorkzilla May 2013 #7
Say rather, manipulative without the GOP grossness Demeter May 2013 #9
I think there are other ingredients to "charm." CTyankee May 2013 #10
I agree. It is those "other ingredients" that I find lacking in ALL Modern-day Politicians Demeter May 2013 #11
Harrison Ford, Leonard Nimoy, Martin Landau Demeter May 2013 #8
indeed. xchrom May 2013 #12
Morning, X! I think this is charming... Demeter May 2013 #13
! xchrom May 2013 #14
I attribute it to a lack of suits. svpadgham May 2013 #16
i actually think there is something to that notion. nt xchrom May 2013 #18
Remember to always insert "American" before "men" in this article. Divernan May 2013 #17
I'll wager just about every generation thinks they can say something like this mythology May 2013 #20
Your simplistic response to a nuanced article is telling. Divernan May 2013 #25
That last paragraph you copied from the article was the one that hit me hardest -- just Nay May 2013 #30
Exactly - many men are incapable of comprehending a non-sexual, social interaction w/ a woman! Divernan May 2013 #33
"see women as sexual objects and projects that attitude upon women" loyalsister May 2013 #40
That's rather sad, I think Divernan May 2013 #45
I don't think that is entirely gone loyalsister May 2013 #46
good comment, good pick out. Whisp May 2013 #34
You give an excellent example of what we're discussing. Divernan May 2013 #42
Right - Europeans have charm; we have a rape culture. closeupready May 2013 #63
Kids today are less well-behaved, men are less manly, and women are less classy. Marr May 2013 #19
Oh, this age! How tasteless and ill-bred it is! -- Catullus (87-54 B.C.) alterfurz May 2013 #73
JFK had charm. ananda May 2013 #21
I think his son did too. n/t BuelahWitch May 2013 #36
I can verify this. mahina May 2013 #76
There are way too many portrayals in the media of man being mean and dumb Lydia Leftcoast May 2013 #22
The Rise and Fall of Charmin - American Men pintobean May 2013 #23
Yup and I blame Adam Savage for whistler162 May 2013 #60
Don't blame the actors, blame the writers and directors... hughee99 May 2013 #24
Well we ARE talking all about fiction media Populist_Prole May 2013 #26
Make believe... loyalsister May 2013 #43
There are a few charming men around jcboon May 2013 #27
Snoop dog????!!!!!! Nooooooo SummerSnow May 2013 #72
I won't deny most men have been Shankapotomus May 2013 #28
"Most men" are "drooling, knuckle dragging Neanderthals." Comrade Grumpy May 2013 #38
I'm sorry Shankapotomus May 2013 #39
"most men have been programmed to be.... " where do you live? Warren DeMontague May 2013 #47
Everybody online says that to me Shankapotomus May 2013 #52
Could be. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #53
I can't even imaging what would happen if anyone typed up the 'most women' counterpart to this. Bluenorthwest May 2013 #69
Perhaps more accurately Shankapotomus May 2013 #74
There never was an American Cary Grant BeyondGeography May 2013 #29
I was going to say that Colin Firth is rather charming BuelahWitch May 2013 #31
Anthony Hopkins for me. Whisp May 2013 #35
Yeesh. They must have really been scraping for something to fill column inches, to winter is coming May 2013 #32
The last truly charming man I met was in his 80s BainsBane May 2013 #37
You described a charming man perfectly. Divernan May 2013 #44
Is there an equal to William Holden in the 21st Century? mahatmakanejeeves May 2013 #41
People can't drink like that anymore. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #48
Zach Gallifinakis. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #49
Zach or George Clooney? BainsBane May 2013 #56
Steve Buscemi. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #62
I didn't recognize him BainsBane May 2013 #64
Heh. No one does clammy-creepy like Michael Shannon. Warren DeMontague May 2013 #68
An interesting piece. DirkGently May 2013 #50
WHAT is so FUCKING CHARMING about George Clooney? Uzair May 2013 #51
He comes across as well-mannered, cultured, and someone who knows how to... WorseBeforeBetter May 2013 #85
the replies to this are a hoot! galileoreloaded May 2013 #55
Socially inept replies on the internets.. Fumesucker May 2013 #81
William Powell was very charming BainsBane May 2013 #57
I don't see Clooney as charming in that same way flamingdem May 2013 #58
get in line, sister. Whisp May 2013 #61
I met him once, and you nailed it. He is very witty and sweet. He had his arm around me for awhile bettyellen May 2013 #77
i hate choo!!! Whisp May 2013 #79
do I have to photobucket and link it? Remind me one of these days. bettyellen May 2013 #84
damn, I'm jealous. BainsBane May 2013 #82
Yup... compared to Wallace Berry whistler162 May 2013 #59
Patrick Dempsey phylny May 2013 #65
I think the Brits are leaving the Americans behind. Cleita May 2013 #66
Some pretty crazed material here. Cary Grant's characters being compared to actual men. Crazy. Bluenorthwest May 2013 #67
We went from Cary Grant to Marlin Brando olddots May 2013 #70
Hey, I'm waaay more charming than that pig Arnold Ziffell. nt rrneck May 2013 #71
omg you made me howl with laughter. Whisp May 2013 #80
The author never met my son, brother, or Dad, all charming and real gentlemen. mahina May 2013 #75
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