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ProSense

(116,464 posts)
17. You know,
Sun May 26, 2013, 04:55 PM
May 2013

"Are you saying Mr. Rosen did something illegal?"

...I get that you're trying to shift focus from the point of the OP, which is that Fox lied, in order to talk in circles. So instead of responding to yet another red herring, I'll post the gist of my previous responses to similar obfuscation:

The insistence that there was no justification is a red-herring. You refuse to accept the facts or cannot explain why the courts issued the warrant, but continue to insist that the justification didn't exist. You cannot move to the next level and defend Rosen's actions because they clearly show that his motives were political, that he was fishing for classified information and that he intended to use it for a personal and political advantage.

Rosen instructed Kim to send him coded signals on his Google account, according to a quote from his e-mail in the affidavit: “One asterisk means to contact them, or that previously suggested plans for communication are to proceed as agreed; two asterisks means the opposite.”

He also wrote, according to the affidavit: “What I am interested in, as you might expect, is breaking news ahead of my competitors” including “what intelligence is picking up.” And: “I’d love to see some internal State Department analyses.”

Court documents show abundant evidence gathered from Kim’s office computer and phone records, but investigators said they needed to go a step further to build their case, seizing two days’ worth of Rosen’s personal e-mails — and all of his e-mail exchanges with Kim.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-rare-peek-into-a-justice-department-leak-probe/2013/05/19/0bc473de-be5e-11e2-97d4-a479289a31f9_story.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022871121

Rosen wasn't having a casual conversation with Kim. He was seeking out classified information for personal and political gain. No one is trying to prosecute Rosen. That is the red herring that makes the criticism of a legal search warrant bogus. The target for prosecution is Kim. Leaking classified information is illegal, and if you get caught up in the leak of such information, you can expect to be held accountable.

<...>

In a 2010 affidavit in support of the search warrant, an FBI agent named Rosen as a possible “co-conspirator” in the case because he “asked, solicited and encouraged” Kim to give him information.

“After extensive deliberations, and after following all applicable laws, regulations and policies, the Department sought an appropriately tailored search warrant under the Privacy Protection Act,” said a department official, referring to a federal law that governs under what circumstances information can be subpoenaed from the news media. “And a federal magistrate judge made an independent finding that probable cause existed to approve the search warrant.”

Nevertheless, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, Holder “understands the concerns that have been raised by the media and has initiated a re-evaluation of existing department policies and procedures.” The official said the department must strike “the appropriate balance” between preventing leaks of classified information and “First Amendment rights,”adding that passage of a new media shield law “and appropriate updates to the department”s internal guidelines” will help achieve that.

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/23/18451142-doj-confirms-holder-okd-search-warrant-for-fox-news-reporters-emails

Reporters caught up in criminal investigations involving the leak of classified information can expect to be scrutinized, even in cases where the report is not fishing for classified information to for personal and political gain.

Reporter Says He First Learned of C.I.A. Operative From Rove
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022850304

A search warrant doesn't mean the subject of the warrant is guilty of a crime or is the person targeted in the criminal investigation.

Mr. Rosen was not charged with any crime. But the suggestion that he was a “co-conspirator” appalled many of his colleagues, some of whom rallied to his defense on Monday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/us/politics/white-house-defends-tracking-fox-reporter.html

In fact, the affidavit states: "aider, abettor of co-conspirator"

The appropriate laws are cited in the OP: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022902690

Another well resourced thread from ProSense. longship May 2013 #1
yes CatWoman May 2013 #4
Thank you ProSense May 2013 #5
+1 Buzz Clik May 2013 #76
You mean to say that Fox learned of something recently? Ha ha ha!! I doubt it. Major Hogwash May 2013 #2
Of course it's delayed-timing outrage. They were timing their outrage for ScandalMania™ JaneyVee May 2013 #3
I always laugh when stories use unnamed government sources... Historic NY May 2013 #6
Shouldn't that be "FOX learned about the search warrant nearly three years ago"? George Gently May 2013 #7
Apology. CNN is reporting that FOX recently learned about the search warrant George Gently May 2013 #8
No need to ProSense May 2013 #9
CONFIRMED: Obama government is waging an unprecedented, dangerous war on press freedom. limpyhobbler May 2013 #10
CONFIRMED: ProSense May 2013 #11
Fox lies all the time. That doesn't mean the government should be snoop-reading Fox's emails. limpyhobbler May 2013 #12
LOL! ProSense May 2013 #13
not what I heard. I heard the DOJ went to a magistrate and said Mr. Rosen might have conspired to limpyhobbler May 2013 #14
Don't ProSense May 2013 #15
Are you saying Mr. Rosen did something illegal? limpyhobbler May 2013 #16
You know, ProSense May 2013 #17
Mr. Rosen commited no crime. You keep implying he did something illegal. nt limpyhobbler May 2013 #18
Fox lied. n/t ProSense May 2013 #19
Yes. Rosen is an alleged criminal. George Gently May 2013 #20
Soliciting classified information from government employees is not a crime. limpyhobbler May 2013 #21
What ProSense May 2013 #22
I can't tell whether you are deliberately trying to mislead people, or just confused yourself. limpyhobbler May 2013 #23
Well, I can't tell if you're being obtuse. n/t ProSense May 2013 #24
You are free to offer your defense to the judge. George Gently May 2013 #25
You probably think it is illegal for a reporter to ask a government employee for classified info. limpyhobbler May 2013 #27
Indeed it is a crime. George Gently May 2013 #26
Oh really? Then why hasn't he been arrested? limpyhobbler May 2013 #28
With due regard to your "figuring" . . . George Gently May 2013 #29
There is no "crime of soliciting classified information". You just made that crime up. nt limpyhobbler May 2013 #30
You might want to explain that to the judge who issued the warrant. George Gently May 2013 #31
Yet the DOJ had to go judge shopping. woo me with science May 2013 #44
"Judge shopping"? Quoting Breitbart? Drudge? How low ya gonna sink here? George Gently May 2013 #92
*In Jeff Goldblum voice* Yes, yes, he just pulled it clean out of his ass davidpdx May 2013 #84
Do you have a cite for that? US Code? I had a TS clearance for many years and learned dumbcat May 2013 #75
It is a crime to solicit a crime. George Gently May 2013 #77
US Code? dumbcat May 2013 #79
I'm suspicious of you already. LOL! First the Dictionary . . . George Gently May 2013 #82
Thank you for that cite. But dumbcat May 2013 #85
And I lurked here a long time before registering at DU dumbcat May 2013 #86
Shame on you for repeating this baseless garbage. woo me with science May 2013 #32
What the fuck are you talking about? ProSense May 2013 #33
It's a good thing ProSense May 2013 #34
You are wrong. Period. George Gently May 2013 #35
Yes it is, and I expect Rosen to indicted any day now, any time now ... pretty soon ... SlimJimmy May 2013 #38
See # 29. George Gently May 2013 #40
Sure, they always accuse reporters of being co-conspitators in order to obtain search warrants SlimJimmy May 2013 #41
Well, ProSense May 2013 #42
The judges *did* object to the part of the affidavit that asked to hide it from the news SlimJimmy May 2013 #48
And ProSense May 2013 #50
LOL! Isn't the actual POINT that they don't "always accuse reporters of being co-conspirators . . . George Gently May 2013 #45
New flash for you. DOJ rules *require* it in the case of reporters and news organizations. SlimJimmy May 2013 #47
Oh ProSense May 2013 #49
Absolutely wrong. The judges refused the *no notice* TWICE. They had to go to a third judge to SlimJimmy May 2013 #51
Hmmm? ProSense May 2013 #53
No, seriously. I wanted the rest of DU to be able to read and judge for themselves who offered SlimJimmy May 2013 #55
. ProSense May 2013 #56
Great response. Exactly what I expected, and you didn't disappoint. SlimJimmy May 2013 #57
Psst! ProSense May 2013 #58
Thanks. We *do* want them to read our exchange and not others. SlimJimmy May 2013 #62
You have been bamboozled ---- hook, line and sinker. George Gently May 2013 #52
You are so mis-informed it is scary. *Any* delay in notification causes harm to the ideal SlimJimmy May 2013 #54
Put down those water buckets. George Gently May 2013 #59
DOJ rules *require* it in the case of a news organization or reporter. What part of this don't you SlimJimmy May 2013 #60
DOJ Rules *require* no such thing. Why keep repeating the lie? George Gently May 2013 #61
Wrong, but keep saying it and it might become true. SlimJimmy May 2013 #63
You are confusing the law and the DOJ Rules. George Gently May 2013 #64
DOJ Rules require quite a bit in reference to news media. But you already knew that, right? SlimJimmy May 2013 #65
Now you are confusing a search warrant with a subpoena. George Gently May 2013 #66
No, it's you that are confused. A subpoena *was* issued for his phone records subsequent to the SlimJimmy May 2013 #69
Not to the search warrant. You really, really aren't getting this. George Gently May 2013 #70
Wow, your ignorance of facts is stunning. Even in the face of evidence to the SlimJimmy May 2013 #71
So ya got nothin'? Shocker. And ya oughtta be ashamed of yourself, btw. George Gently May 2013 #72
I already showed that a subpoena was issued for his phone records subsequent to the approval SlimJimmy May 2013 #73
You don't comprehend that it makes no difference. You have so conflated George Gently May 2013 #74
That you continue to evade the fact that a subpoena *was* issued for his phone records subsequent SlimJimmy May 2013 #78
The OP has been updated. ProSense May 2013 #36
No, it hasn't. woo me with science May 2013 #43
See the note, ProSense May 2013 #46
Hmmm... ProSense May 2013 #37
Thanks ProSense May 2013 #39
Shame goes to those who defend Fox as journalism to begin with, DevonRex May 2013 #67
+1 uponit7771 May 2013 #83
There are opportunists here who will champion FOX, repeat GOP talking points emulatorloo May 2013 #88
Yep and as far as I'm concerned championing Fox is fucking blatantly rooting for DevonRex May 2013 #89
Agreed, and very well put. emulatorloo May 2013 #91
^^^ this ^^^ Bobbie Jo May 2013 #90
QFT ucrdem May 2013 #68
THANK YOU VERY MUCH Prosense for your FACT BASED analysis. What detractors come back with is opinion uponit7771 May 2013 #80
Have we been reading the same thread? Show me where I have *not* documented what I've been SlimJimmy May 2013 #87
ProSense thank you for keeping on top of this! hrmjustin May 2013 #81
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