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Bozvotros

(955 posts)

112. I hate to admit it but I think you're right.

Reply to woo me with science (Reply #79)

Mon May 27, 2013, 10:35 AM

May 2013

Living in America under Obama is a little like being an abused spouse who sheds her psychopathic mate and marries someone who no longer punches her in the face and molests her children. At first you're happy things aren't so brutal. You don't even care that he told you a lot of lies and hangs out with some of your ex's old friends. And, OK, sure, he fenced some of your jewelry for meth and booze and new clothes but he talks so sweet to you.

Believe me, I am not someone who thinks it would have made no difference if we would have elected McRomney or any other stooge the Repugs would have run. With the Pugs in the White House and the House and kind old Harry Reid standing between us and full fascism, I am giving the nod to fascism 10 to 1. But Obama has continued to disappoint and finally really irritate me. I am sick of having to compromise and capitulate to these sick fucks running the con game that is American politics. I am tired of being told to wait for things that should have come long ago or that this screwing is less harsh than the one we could have got or that something is better than nothing.

We are at war all right but it isn't with Al Qaida and the Muslims. (Good band name... I doubt it is taken.)

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Health Insurance Rate Shock-California Obamacare Insurance Exchange Announces Premium Rates [View all] Scuba May 2013 OP

Not to worry, Turbineguy May 2013 #1

And half the nation will buy it. California was supposed to stay broken! freshwest May 2013 #92

History repeats. Democrats have a long history of cleaning up republican fiscal messes at bluestate10 May 2013 #191

Very true. There's a graphic for that: freshwest May 2013 #204

Not my experience BrotherIvan May 2013 #2

More info please: where do you live, what is your premium and for what insurance? SunSeeker May 2013 #3

And the top rate I saw was under $400/month n/t Ms. Toad May 2013 #5

Exactly!! nt SunSeeker May 2013 #7

My wife and I couldn't get individual insurance, we were uninsurable. hunter May 2013 #6

You will no longer be uninsurable, and they won't be able to drop you pnwmom May 2013 #193

You have access to affordable insurance now Politicub May 2013 #10

I am uninsured now and still will be at those rates. xtraxritical May 2013 #16

Why? Can you qualify for subsidies? nt flamingdem May 2013 #52

There are subsidies for people with incomes into the 80K range. pnwmom May 2013 #194

Let's have some facts, please... Honeycombe8 May 2013 #21

You have got to be kidding or delusional or both BrotherIvan May 2013 #40

No, people want you to stop being a troll intaglio May 2013 #47

This person is not a troll. I can attest that truedelphi May 2013 #91

Is that still in effect? Has it changed since you saw it a year ago? Squinch May 2013 #102

That website, which allowed a person a larger and more complete understanding of what was to truedelphi May 2013 #157

What level of income will be eligible for the expanded Medicaid program? pnwmom May 2013 #197

After our medical bankruptcy, we were allowed help truedelphi May 2013 #238

What a nightmare. pnwmom May 2013 #245

Then why is a low post count member intaglio May 2013 #114

Seriously? davidthegnome May 2013 #198

My wife and I pay more than that for insurance and "deductables..." hunter May 2013 #124

But how can that website account for the government subsidies pnwmom May 2013 #196

Yes, I had Blue Cross and it went up every 6 months flamingdem May 2013 #64

It's not so good if you are middle class AllyCat May 2013 #83

You have got to be kidding or delusional or both LiberalFighter May 2013 #128

I actually know this plan. Someone told me she'd had it forever flamingdem May 2013 #134

Then it is not comparable to most plans?? LiberalFighter May 2013 #139

It's a regular Blue Cross Plan flamingdem May 2013 #141

I just defended these numbers below, I know it's true flamingdem May 2013 #135

The subsidy comes directly from the government so I doubt that the letter pnwmom May 2013 #195

"Every 3-6 months since the insurance act passed...my premiums are going up" cheapdate May 2013 #259

This message was self-deleted by its author historylovr May 2013 #48

Deleted by person posting. JDPriestly May 2013 #97

We have individual insurance thru empire onlyadream May 2013 #108

You have incredible insurance for healthy people, and I want it. SugarShack May 2013 #203

I did a major happy dance when I found it onlyadream May 2013 #230

Exactly. My brother will finally be able to buy insurance for the first time in his life. SunSeeker May 2013 #4

Oh gawd, how I wish... Che Billy May 2013 #8

How is it a disaster? Politicub May 2013 #11

The law discriminates against millions of same sex couples and families Bluenorthwest May 2013 #15

How does it discriminate? Politicub May 2013 #20

Can you cite the provision that prohibits selling ins. to gay people? Honeycombe8 May 2013 #26

Because it is a racket. It's lipstick on a pig. Comrade Grumpy May 2013 #25

Did you read the article, or are you just perpetually negative? Politicub May 2013 #28

The ACA is a band-aid. Our health care system needs radical surgery. Comrade Grumpy May 2013 #32

A single payer system would be good Politicub May 2013 #37

Heh - the thing is.... Plucketeer May 2013 #110

reality check.. the votes were not there for single payer... DCBob May 2013 #174

So it's as simple as.... Plucketeer May 2013 #175

in many cases it is that simple. DCBob May 2013 #176

We can make excuses Plucketeer May 2013 #189

Obama was not elected on single payer promises.. thats absurd. DCBob May 2013 #209

WERE there any promises Plucketeer May 2013 #216

see below.. DCBob May 2013 #223

Agree. cheapdate May 2013 #260

bullshit. sanders said there were less than 10 votes for single payer in the senate... dionysus May 2013 #228

Very well then Plucketeer May 2013 #250

not gonna happen SHRED May 2013 #93

I agree... KansDem May 2013 #98

Your post is one of the reasons health care costs have skyrocketed. Honeycombe8 May 2013 #30

Well, I didn't get the shingles shot, even though my doctor recommended it. Comrade Grumpy May 2013 #34

So the reason insurance costs are so high is because people are getting TOO MUCH care? BrotherIvan May 2013 #42

Probably not what the poster was talking about, BUT I think there's some truth in that. Squinch May 2013 #105

Firstly, it is a fact cheapdate May 2013 #261

And since you are an expert on costs BrotherIvan May 2013 #43

Not to mention how much they save taxpayers Live and Learn May 2013 #95

They are necessary for me. xmas74 May 2013 #202

It's hatred of women to say any different BrotherIvan May 2013 #206

I never had a problem until after I had a child. xmas74 May 2013 #251

This message was self-deleted by its author historylovr May 2013 #49

Birth control coverage reduces the overall cost of health insurance. Squinch May 2013 #104

what's cheaper Honeycombe8? RILib May 2013 #146

insurance is unnecessary barrier to basic healthcare noiretextatique May 2013 #178

People get unequal treatment, based on what they can afford Demeter May 2013 #103

All it does is require a person to have "coverage" it does nothing to guarantee access to care. dflprincess May 2013 #187

+1. nt historylovr May 2013 #247

Right, lets kill the messenger. nt clarice Jun 2013 #277

metaphorically of course. nt clarice Jun 2013 #278

I agree. emmadoggy May 2013 #14

I agree on single-payer, and the disastrous state of our for-profit insurance system ... Scuba May 2013 #17

I agree Scuba.....gotta get the door open to begin with and the ACA does that. a kennedy May 2013 #35

Yes "it's a first step" has a nice ring but is hollow unless it is followed up with a second rhett o rick May 2013 #89

I would really like to believe that, bvar22 May 2013 #46

You said it! n/t dflprincess May 2013 #188

I wish I were 18. But reality is, I'm not. Time to move on and work with what we have... Honeycombe8 May 2013 #22

Che we will get there. It might be a slower process but I have a feeling we will get there. southernyankeebelle May 2013 #51

Not for millions - and others will get more for the buck flamingdem May 2013 #55

That was the hope of the Wingnuts malaise May 2013 #78

This message was self-deleted by its author Ed Suspicious May 2013 #9

The major provisions of the ACA are almost here Politicub May 2013 #12

And another chapter in the history of vicious discrimination against gay people opens.... Bluenorthwest May 2013 #18

Can you cite the provision in the ACA that says what you say it says? Honeycombe8 May 2013 #23

If you don't see some positive benefits of this legislation Politicub May 2013 #27

I won't count chickens before they are hatched. L0oniX May 2013 #13

Oh, the naysayers and anti-healthcare reform sky-is-falling folks aren't gonna like this. Honeycombe8 May 2013 #19

My favorite line from the article.. loyalsister May 2013 #62

I don't consider $1,000/month just for premiums "affordable" antigop May 2013 #24

But you haven't factored in the costs... Comrade Grumpy May 2013 #29

Holy moly! $1358 per month age 63 JUST FOR PREMIUMS!!! nt antigop May 2013 #31

+100000 woo me with science May 2013 #142

I've got very good company provided insurance in CA - haele May 2013 #149

$1358 per month age 63 is JUST FOR PREMIUMS -- that's NOT AFFORDABLE. nt antigop May 2013 #153

A 63-year old single making 60K under the Covered CA "silver" plan pays $679 a month. haele May 2013 #166

it's from the calculator for two people ...the subthread begins here... antigop May 2013 #168

If your health is relatively good, try to hold on until RebelOne Jun 2013 #284

your health may be "relatively good" one day, and "really bad" the next. Holding off until Medicare antigop Jun 2013 #285

They are affordable in a sick world where your health premiums are similar to your mortgage dkf May 2013 #33

If you dont't get sick Turbineguy May 2013 #36

Not being sick is its own reward Politicub May 2013 #38

We are the cause of our health problems. dkf May 2013 #39

Not always. Sometimes random shit really does happen. hunter May 2013 #67

I am type 1 diabetic. Jennicut May 2013 #73

genetics; yes CountAllVotes May 2013 #84

I have a hunch the research is going to find that it's something we are doing. dkf May 2013 #90

That statement is just so you, overlooking the pollutants and poisons that are killing us. Scuba May 2013 #74

This is simply not true. drm604 May 2013 #125

Did you know that the oft-recommended low salt diet kills people? MannyGoldstein May 2013 #179

EXACTLY! Thank you BrotherIvan May 2013 #41

and that is the INDRODUCTORY price Skittles May 2013 #44

Neither do I. nt LWolf May 2013 #45

Do you qualify for subsidies? nt flamingdem May 2013 #54

my post: Estimated tax credit from the government: $0 nt antigop May 2013 #56

Now I see what you mean. It's not a great deal for middle to upper middle class flamingdem May 2013 #57

and the middle to upper class are going to hate it for that reason. antigop May 2013 #60

The numbers will show that they are mostly covered at work flamingdem May 2013 #63

People get laid off, especially older workers antigop May 2013 #69

If they got laid off, they wouldn't have the income and would qualify for lower rates and subsidies OKNancy May 2013 #107

the rates for 2014 will be based on your 2013 income. antigop May 2013 #115

That's what I want to know BuelahWitch May 2013 #180

Loss of job counts as a life event for Covered CA Godhumor May 2013 #253

it depends upon what happens to an older person who loses his/her job antigop Jun 2013 #281

Face it...older people get screwed by the PPACA due to age rating. nt antigop May 2013 #116

not if they have a modest income OKNancy May 2013 #118

$1026 per month for two people w/ income $63000 IS NOT AFFORDABLE-- I don't care what your age is. antigop May 2013 #120

Thank you. nt woo me with science May 2013 #130

But wasn't that the whole point? dumbcat May 2013 #72

it's not "progressive" antigop May 2013 #77

ACA looks like it's going to make a new class of poor people. Those with a living income who don't Flatulo May 2013 #140

The great part happens Turbineguy May 2013 #132

No, it's not affordable. It's a fucking racket. woo me with science May 2013 #70

just read some of the replies on this thread. nt antigop May 2013 #71

But when you find yourself between that rock and a hard place, it's still better than what we had. hunter May 2013 #76

No, because it *entrenches* the for-profit system. woo me with science May 2013 #79

I don't think it's sustainable. hunter May 2013 #85

thank you my friend CountAllVotes May 2013 #88

I hate to admit it but I think you're right. Bozvotros May 2013 #112

Time will tell ... lhooq May 2013 #136

excellent post Skittles May 2013 #201

This post was alerted on. The jury voted 4/2 to let it stand. ohiosmith May 2013 #109

I have to agree with you there brother. Same thing here in MA with our Romneycare. Flatulo May 2013 #113

Score one for Romneycare! lhooq May 2013 #137

Thanks for the link. . . Journeyman May 2013 #94

are you purposefully leaving out something to prove a point OKNancy May 2013 #106

go back and read my post..nt antigop May 2013 #119

It's the jump from $62K - $63K , the "drop out". At $62K, it's $491. haele May 2013 #177

As Judge Judy says,.... antigop May 2013 #182

Allrighty then, just toss it all out and start over. haele May 2013 #184

I didn't say it didn't benefit me -- I don't live in CA. But the CA rates screw older pre-Medicare antigop May 2013 #185

And the Silver PLan has a $2000 deductible dflprincess May 2013 #190

exactly what I have tried to get across...ACCESS means nothing if you CAN'T AFFORD the antigop May 2013 #192

I've been beating that drum for a long time and many don't seem to get it. dflprincess May 2013 #199

You are correct -- many don't seem to get it...until it happens to them. Thank you. nt antigop May 2013 #200

Holy Crap!! Ruby the Liberal May 2013 #50

Oops - ACA does seem to favor lower income flamingdem May 2013 #53

Thats what I am hoping - a few states taking the lead Ruby the Liberal May 2013 #58

They are hammering middle class earners but that group is covered flamingdem May 2013 #61

A lot of people lose their jobs and don't have insurance. nt antigop May 2013 #66

no, I doubt it will lead to lower rates. Dream on. nt antigop May 2013 #59

this might lead people to flamingdem May 2013 #65

How an additional $1,000 in income can cost you $6,420 more in premiums antigop May 2013 #68

Should a 50-year-old w/ $46000 income pay the same as a 50 yo making $500,000? antigop May 2013 #75

ACA Is and Will Continue to Be Good For Millions of Americans Indykatie May 2013 #80

excuse me...I am very well versed in the ACA. nt antigop May 2013 #81

$1026 per month for two people w/ income $63000 IS NOT AFFORDABLE. antigop May 2013 #82

You are ProSense May 2013 #86

Actually, ProSense May 2013 #87

Time will tell ... slipslidingaway May 2013 #96

One of our national shames. Thanks for reminding us of that. Scuba May 2013 #99

The shame is the ACA will do nothing to alleviate the bankruptcies ... slipslidingaway May 2013 #252

Agreed, the ACA is far from ideal. Still, it will help many. Scuba May 2013 #255

Still possible with these plans madville May 2013 #111

that's my point. It's not just the PREMIUMS...it's the copays/coinsurance/deductibles antigop May 2013 #117

Exactly and we're living it now with a high annual out of pocket maximum... slipslidingaway May 2013 #254

Why do You think Repukes voted so vehemently against ACA? It's going to be one of the best things.. hue May 2013 #100

Individual rates are $300-400 a month madville May 2013 #101

that's what people need to look at -- it's not just the premiums --- it's the max out of pocket... antigop May 2013 #121

These days I'm very cheerful and friendly about medical debt. hunter May 2013 #138

Even With the Affordable Care Act, Health Insurance Coverage Remains Unaffordable for Many antigop May 2013 #122

Employers Eye Bare-Bones Health Plans Under New Law antigop May 2013 #123

^^^^^^^ Here we go. ^^^^^^^ woo me with science May 2013 #133

It is despicable . nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #148

and we have cheerleaders cheering about how great this is. nt antigop May 2013 #152

nadin, what they have done is a classic "divide and conquer".... antigop May 2013 #154

This is good, it will begin the move of health insurance from employers to individual.... cbdo2007 May 2013 #155

I don't think you understood the article. I would suggest you re-read it. nt antigop May 2013 #156

Understood it just fine actually. Thanks! cbdo2007 May 2013 #159

no, I don't think you did based on your response. nt antigop May 2013 #160

I'm pretty sure you didn't get my response. Maybe reread it and have a cup of cbdo2007 May 2013 #161

Please re-read it so you understand what it is saying. nt antigop May 2013 #162

Please do some research, perhaps the Google machine or the Wikipedia cbdo2007 May 2013 #163

I don't need to do research...I read the article and understood what it said. nt antigop May 2013 #164

I don't think so. nt cbdo2007 May 2013 #165

well, it's your choice... you can misinterpret the article or you can go back and re-read it and antigop May 2013 #167

Thank you for the permission to have a choice. I grant you permission to have a choice as well cbdo2007 May 2013 #169

well, I see you've made your choice. nt antigop May 2013 #170

I see you've made your choice as well. cbdo2007 May 2013 #171

I wasn't misinterpreting anything...you need to understand what the article says. nt antigop May 2013 #172

I understood it, that's why I responded. nt cbdo2007 May 2013 #173

But your post shows you really didn't understand it. Sorry. No need to keep this up. antigop May 2013 #181

I understood it just fine. Unfortunately you didn't understand my response and make the connection cbdo2007 May 2013 #210

Some NC employers cut worker hours to avoid cost of health care reform WorseBeforeBetter Jun 2013 #271

President Obama's plan already saves me $19,200 OUT OF POCKET. with NO lifetime cap, and graham4anything May 2013 #126

Great to read this! mzmolly May 2013 #129

I wouldn't call $1500/month "affordable". And what is the max out of pocket in addition antigop May 2013 #131

Those are the current rates - Ms. Toad May 2013 #143

I know they are the current rates....the poster was touting how "great" they were. nt antigop May 2013 #144

I wouldn't call the CA PPACA rates "affordable". antigop May 2013 #145

I guess you'd have to define affordable? mzmolly Jun 2013 #276

Still haven't posted the percentage I asked for, did you? nt antigop Jun 2013 #279

Ask the OP your questions. I'm applauding "progress" not mzmolly May 2013 #147

oh, brother...$36,000 to $18,000/yr -- yeah, that's just peachy. antigop May 2013 #150

Nope. mzmolly May 2013 #219

Nope what? Who can afford $18000 in premiums as graham4anything is paying today? nt antigop May 2013 #225

Nope. G4A mzmolly May 2013 #239

And you have to be able to handle premiums+ max op if you want to be covered. nt antigop May 2013 #241

No you don't. mzmolly May 2013 #243

No you can't do that...have to enroll during enrollment period antigop May 2013 #249

An article from 2011? Here try this: mzmolly Jun 2013 #262

Did you read your own article? That's the high risk pool, not the exchange. nt antigop Jun 2013 #265

Did you read what I replied mzmolly Jun 2013 #267

The high risk pool GOES AWAY once the exchanges are up and running. antigop Jun 2013 #268

Regardless, you can't be denied coverage mzmolly Jun 2013 #270

I never said you can't be denied coverage. But you have to be able to PAY antigop Jun 2013 #273

Or, pay for hospital stays, testing, cancer treatment mzmolly Jun 2013 #274

you don't even know if it's "progress" or not if you don't know the max out of pocket. You were the antigop May 2013 #151

Best benefit to me is-WE WERE FREE TO CHANGE now in 2013.WE WERE NOT FREE in 2012(or prior). graham4anything May 2013 #208

and how many people can afford $1500/month + max op? That's the point. Just because YOU can. antigop May 2013 #211

One has to have insurance. One has to make choices on WHAT IS AVAILABLE today, not 20 yrs from now graham4anything May 2013 #213

yes, be thankful you are still getting gouged....just not as much. HOORAY! nt antigop May 2013 #214

Thank God for President Obama,Sen. Kennedy Gov. Brown and future Pres. Hillary for moving us forward graham4anything May 2013 #217

I keep asking the question because NO ONE has been able to claim $1026 for two people on a $63000 antigop May 2013 #229

Here. You must have missed this? mzmolly May 2013 #236

and I'll ask the question again...how many people can afford $1500/month +max OP? antigop May 2013 #215

Are you reiterating that a small percentage of Americans mzmolly May 2013 #220

I'm reiterating that the rates are NOT affordable -- especially for older pre-Medicare who do not antigop May 2013 #226

$11,900 applies to those at incomes above 400% of the poverty level. mzmolly May 2013 #231

Did you even look at the example I referenced? antigop May 2013 #234

California & $200 that is the important numbers. graham4anything May 2013 #221

Hear hear! mzmolly May 2013 #222

hear, hear? Who can afford what graham4anything is paying now? nt antigop May 2013 #227

G4A mzmolly May 2013 #232

yep....evidently...but most people would not be able to afford that. nt antigop May 2013 #240

Most people who are working and making that kind of income mzmolly May 2013 #242

g4A is self-employed, per his/her post. nt antigop May 2013 #244

Awesome! The perfect candidate for the savings touted. mzmolly May 2013 #246

we are talking about TWO PEOPLE with a COMBINED INCOME of $63000. Got it? antigop May 2013 #256

A combined AGI of 63,000. mzmolly Jun 2013 #263

Now figure out the % of what you are paying in premiums + your max out of pocket. antigop Jun 2013 #266

Define affordable? mzmolly Jun 2013 #269

You are looking at the median for US --- median for CA is higher antigop Jun 2013 #272

I notice you're not talking about what things are/were like mzmolly Jun 2013 #275

because that's not the point... antigop Jun 2013 #280

The heck it isn't. Your continued assertions that mzmolly Jun 2013 #287

Read the link...I'm not the only one saying it's STILL NOT AFFORDABLE. nt antigop Jun 2013 #289

if you CAN'T AFFORD it, it doesn't buy you anything. nt antigop Jun 2013 #292

Still haven't figured out the percentage, have you? nt antigop Jun 2013 #283

It's not possible unless one knows the monthly payment amount mzmolly Jun 2013 #286

You were the one raving about the tax breaks. So--what's the percentage of income antigop Jun 2013 #291

Over how many mzmolly Jun 2013 #293

You can't spread the premiums over years... they have to be paid each month. nt antigop Jun 2013 #296

The monthly AGI for the couple you noted is $5,250.00 mzmolly Jun 2013 #299

I do know - as I'm familiar with the legislation. mzmolly May 2013 #218

I'm very familiar with the legislation -- but you weren't following the thread antigop May 2013 #224

Average premiums in Cali are $323 post leg. Now, you tell me what your couple paid prior to the mzmolly May 2013 #233

Average means nothing....look at the calculator... run the scenarios...two people ages 55 -64. antigop May 2013 #235

The calculator = worst case scenario and was based upon inaccurate predictions. mzmolly May 2013 #237

Evidently you need to read the article and understand what it says. n t antigop May 2013 #257

the calculator is NOT the "worst case" scenario. nt antigop May 2013 #258

It's based upon old mzmolly Jun 2013 #264

no, the article doesn't say that. Go back and read it, please. nt antigop Jun 2013 #282

"Editorial Says Covered Calif. Rates Better Than Expected" mzmolly Jun 2013 #288

It doesn't say that the rates on the Covered CA website are incorrect. nt antigop Jun 2013 #290

The article is new - the rates mzmolly Jun 2013 #294

it doesn't say that.. pls go back and read it. nt antigop Jun 2013 #295

Look...I'm done with this. You seem to refuse to read what you even post. antigop Jun 2013 #297

I knew the HR pool went away because it's no longer needed. mzmolly Jun 2013 #300

for the last time...READ. THE. ARTICLE. It doesn't say COVERED CA is based upon older data. antigop Jun 2013 #301

You misunderstand. mzmolly Jun 2013 #302

+1. I know people who are breathing much easier on account of this. freshwest May 2013 #205

They first put out a calculator several months ago which miscalculated still_one May 2013 #127

I ♥ my AFH n.k.a O-Care ! maidensandiego May 2013 #158

I get it....If you're being gouged right now NiteOwll May 2013 #183

Sorry to hear that, NiteOWll. I agree -- it's not just the premiums. It's the copays, coinsurance antigop May 2013 #186

NiteOwll...case in point.... antigop May 2013 #212

Too confusing. davidthegnome May 2013 #207

My health-care coverage (Capital Blue Cross/Group. PA.) just INCREASED $17/mo = $204/yr more. WinkyDink May 2013 #248

my rates have doubled since it passed nt markiv Jun 2013 #298