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Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
89. I doubt they support the NRA, but that group seems the stigma de jour...
Tue May 28, 2013, 04:48 PM
May 2013

if someone wants to play culture war with tens of millions of Americans.

The debate was over treating NON-FFL b.g.-checked individuals who purchased from individuals (current law already requires b.g. checks for purchases from FFLs). The difference from what I read was that the data for the "new" persons who bought guns from NON-FFL persons would have their NICS data stored for considerably longer than those who are checked now. This "two-tiered" system was what the ACLU objected to. The organization, I believe, considered it a violation of equal protection, and a threat for establishing an enduring data base from which a registration system could be established.

Personally, I would like to know who proposed this extended time period for holding data, as it suggests either a poison-pill, or a backdoor effort to establish a registry-in-waiting -- what the ACLU feared. But I haven't seen any "insider" reporting on the politics of this bill and the personalities involved. One of the troubles with MSM is it has for so long been virtual agit-prop for gun-control/bans that it can't be trusted to reveal the shenanigans in something like this, no matter what side one is on.

You should be able to Google up ACLU concerns about the expanded b.g. bill. It was extensively discussed in D.U. in at least one of the now-three gun groups/fora.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2013/04/15/aclu-toomey-manchin-bill-would-make-national-gun-registry-less-likely/

I found this link to WaPo which discussed the ACLU objections and remedies to those problems. By the time changes were made in the Schumer version, all momentum for any legislation was lost. IMO, little momentum was established for the start as the first calls for legislation called for bans and more bans, thus mobilizing the gun-rights base, instead of for expanded b.g. checks. All credibility was lost.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I have great hopes this bill will be passed, why do we need criminals, terrorist and those mentally Thinkingabout May 2013 #1
But, but if you let them take our guns, next they will want our microwaves. rhett o rick May 2013 #3
Yep, tis true. Just think, a national microwave register. Thinkingabout May 2013 #4
and our baseball bats, and our hammers! kag May 2013 #27
Shredders and blues-players----They will take our guitars away!! nikto May 2013 #102
Man oh man! Unknown Beatle May 2013 #109
OMG, you're right. nikto May 2013 #114
Microwaves don't kill people PaddyIrishman May 2013 #32
That might be true. WHEN CRABS ROAR May 2013 #80
K&R! I don't want to take away anybody's guns, but I do want EVERYONE to have a background Dustlawyer May 2013 #2
^ THIS ^ mac56 May 2013 #5
There are some logistical issues to work out metalbot May 2013 #8
Addressing these concerns marions ghost May 2013 #10
Thank you. kag May 2013 #29
That sounds awfully authoritarian. LAGC May 2013 #61
Get real marions ghost May 2013 #64
The ACLU in fact objected to the failed expanded b.g. check bill. nt Eleanors38 May 2013 #65
On grounds of registering guns? marions ghost May 2013 #68
The ACLU opposes gun registration on privacy grounds. hack89 May 2013 #73
Thanks for the info marions ghost May 2013 #82
I fail to see how registration will reduce gun violence. hack89 May 2013 #88
Both marions ghost May 2013 #93
It is not relevent to the vast majority of gun deaths hack89 May 2013 #96
Nobody misses your points marions ghost May 2013 #100
Registration is not going to happen hack89 May 2013 #101
For what purpose? Pelican May 2013 #108
For the purpose marions ghost May 2013 #115
Again... Pelican May 2013 #118
So that's the paranoia? marions ghost May 2013 #119
Third time is the charm... Pelican May 2013 #120
You know the benefits marions ghost May 2013 #121
I can't think of any... Pelican May 2013 #124
You know the arguments marions ghost May 2013 #125
I really haven't... Pelican May 2013 #126
It's a bit of right-wing horse manure, slung by the usual suspects. Fear not the ACLU. Robb May 2013 #78
ACLU: Toomey-Manchin bill would make national gun registry less likely hack89 May 2013 #83
thanks marions ghost May 2013 #87
They changed the legislation to make registration even less likely hack89 May 2013 #91
I doubt they support the NRA, but that group seems the stigma de jour... Eleanors38 May 2013 #89
OK thanks marions ghost May 2013 #95
The fear is gun registration & subsequent bans. Eleanors38 May 2013 #113
agree marions ghost May 2013 #116
I'm not sure where the threshold of "irrationality" lies, Eleanors38 May 2013 #122
You can put some strings on it marions ghost May 2013 #123
I agree. There seems to be a trend in this country Mojorabbit May 2013 #104
Sad, but true. nt. premium May 2013 #105
Smart people? Straw Man May 2013 #92
Not impressed marions ghost May 2013 #94
I couldn't care less ... Straw Man May 2013 #103
its about 'gun shows' maindawg May 2013 #63
Do you have data on the % of criminal purchases from "gun shows?" Thanks. nt Eleanors38 May 2013 #66
Just mandate background checks at gun shows hack89 May 2013 #77
There will always be a huge pool of unregistered guns hack89 May 2013 #11
Yeah, let's do nothing for another decade and there will be another 100 million to deal with. Hoyt May 2013 #81
You have to start somewhere. It would take decades before they become a small percentage of the Dustlawyer May 2013 #110
I just don't see gun registration significantly impacting gun deaths hack89 May 2013 #111
Why not register owners instead of guns? hack89 May 2013 #12
best idea going, marry it with a ccw and you would have a winner loli phabay May 2013 #17
I've been saying this for awhile now, premium May 2013 #36
This is a better approach, and nothing is stopping such at the state level, either. Eleanors38 May 2013 #67
In other words, a permit to own even a .22 squirrel rifle derby378 May 2013 #99
Of course, the bill that came forward did not achieve that. aikoaiko May 2013 #33
I want to take away the guns of criminals and separate them from future gun ownership by AnotherMcIntosh May 2013 #97
Hate to be negative, but we still don't have even a watered down bill CanonRay May 2013 #6
I can understand your cynicism, but I'm a little more hopeful. kag May 2013 #30
Don't have much good to say about the NRA. Look at that organization and you'll see... Eleanors38 May 2013 #69
"Why did these developments take so many [...] pundits by surprise? BumRushDaShow May 2013 #7
Curious, since the the "The so-called 'news' media..." have been gun-controls' leading advocates... Eleanors38 May 2013 #70
The M$M's goal is to ensure consumption of their flawed product BumRushDaShow May 2013 #98
MSM's "trend" (spread like a virus) has been to show Eleanors38 May 2013 #112
The NRA wants this argument to be dragged out PatSeg May 2013 #9
Eventually the market will be saturated BumRushDaShow May 2013 #13
If that is true, the eventual consequence will be a flood of inexpensive, lightly used weapons Nimajneb Nilknarf May 2013 #14
And then the government buy-backs will ratchet up BumRushDaShow May 2013 #24
Oh, I hadn't thought about reality TV PatSeg May 2013 #16
The focus on short-term profits BumRushDaShow May 2013 #25
And the CEOs will exit the stage PatSeg May 2013 #37
Yup. Laughing all the way to the bank. n/t BumRushDaShow May 2013 #40
People like me will come to the table... Pragdem May 2013 #15
wondering what you mean by ammo limits, it only takes ten rounds to kill ten people loli phabay May 2013 #18
Don't really care how it works. Pass the laws and then people like you can adjust accordingly. nt Pragdem May 2013 #35
adjust accordingly, no thanks. loli phabay May 2013 #45
Uh, no thanks, premium May 2013 #46
People like you? Straw Man May 2013 #107
Some Dems in conservative areas are facing recalls louis-t May 2013 #19
Just because gun humpers are initiating recalls Zoeisright May 2013 #44
Their attitude seems to be "We don't like you louis-t May 2013 #51
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2013 #106
America is changing, as are its attitudes toward gun ownership AndyA May 2013 #20
I hate to be a party pooper here, but... Adam-Bomb May 2013 #21
Law abiding like James Holmes, Sueng Hui Cho and Jared Loughner? Tommy_Carcetti May 2013 #26
It isn't even close to over. rrneck May 2013 #22
That's true. With all the problems in our country, the gun yahoos only care about their friggin gun. Hoyt May 2013 #28
Not to mention rrneck May 2013 #41
Seems there are some antis here who "only care" about guns, too. nt Eleanors38 May 2013 #71
Laughable from one with reference to guns in their user name. Hoyt May 2013 #74
I've heard Franklin had only a .32; less glamorous as far as calibers go. Eleanors38 May 2013 #76
How many who rec'ed actually read the article? sarisataka May 2013 #23
I <3 single-issue groups...not bobclark86 May 2013 #43
If history is any indication sarisataka May 2013 #48
I see the problem... bobclark86 May 2013 #49
I am just pointing out sarisataka May 2013 #50
I get you. bobclark86 May 2013 #52
This is exactly why no progressive Dem. premium May 2013 #47
Started by GOPers or former GOPers. No wonder they "aren't concerned" about primaried Democrats. Eleanors38 May 2013 #72
Gun ownership laws have made this country weak. toby jo May 2013 #31
All this over a bill that doesn't actually do anything madville May 2013 #34
If I were a gun-owner, I'd be eager to express my "professional" standards, because just one of patrice May 2013 #38
“The fact that a Republican would get elected is irrelevant to our cause,” hack89 May 2013 #39
Which is why you send money to the NRA? Robb May 2013 #53
Which is why I am active in Democratic politics hack89 May 2013 #54
But you send money to people who work to elect Republicans. Robb May 2013 #56
I actually make all my political donations to Democrats hack89 May 2013 #58
Do you send money to anti-gun groups who "don't care" if Democrats lose? nt Eleanors38 May 2013 #75
No surprise you would agree with Wolfson hack89 May 2013 #55
No surprise you agree with the NRA. Robb May 2013 #57
I have never given a political donation to the NRA. nt hack89 May 2013 #59
Why should we believe you? Robb May 2013 #60
Believe what you want hack89 May 2013 #62
If you support NRA, you've helped them advance a right wing agenda often unrelated to guns. Hoyt May 2013 #84
Do you support gun control groups opposing pro-gun Democrats hack89 May 2013 #85
Nope. Hoyt May 2013 #86
So you do not support Bloomberg and MAIG? hack89 May 2013 #90
“We’ve always been too polite, by appealing to politicians to do the right thing," Spitfire of ATJ May 2013 #42
How about this strategy for Harry Reid Mr.Bill May 2013 #79
Harry Reid will find a way to cave in, even in those circumstances. (nt) Paladin May 2013 #127
I'm not so sure that there isn't anything meaner than a million pissed-off parents. Kurovski May 2013 #117
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