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X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
27. That is disturbing, yep.
Wed May 29, 2013, 11:09 PM
May 2013

This removes any kind of objective criteria for deciding whether a piece of legislation / rule / regulatory scheme is effective or not. If crime goes down, the diminishing pool of victims is just as large to the absolutist who holds this position ("One death from guns is one death too many.&quot Even if crime goes up, the justification of "Well, we don’t know how many more might have died without this" is given credence. Strange how a failure of a regulation can lead to more of the same.

I do conflate the "if just one.." philosophy with the "one death is too many.." mantra, because it seems if you point out that the incidence of a particular crime is down, it’s often followed by the second phrase.

There seems to be a disconnect between goal, action, and consequence. It’s as though there is a measure of faith involved. "If this doesn’t work, we must not be doing enough. I know that if we do this, eventually lives will be saved." Rarely is there serious discussion about whether or not the approach can reasonably be expected to result in the goal, it’s "obvious" to those proposing action that A should lead to B. No rational discussion about the effectiveness of a law can be tolerated- those who do are painted as being against saving lives, or for killing innocents. In the absolutist’s mind, it’s all or none.

There’s also a disturbing ends justifies the means mentality involved. The lengths that these proponents are willing to go seems to know no bounds. Random pat-downs of the public, government tracking of ammunition sales, government tracking of guns via lojack type transmitters, door-to-door searches of those living in public housing- all have been proposed in the last year or two in various discussion forums; the same kind of thinking brought us Guantanamo, torture, and warrant-less wiretapping. I’m not equating strict gun control to these, just noting that in the heads of those who propose such actions, justification is clear and absolute. "Just one life..", "One death is too many."

No consideration is given to unintended consequences. The burden on anyone else is considered inconsequential compared to the "saving of a single life". Never mind that the trust placed in the government’s hands today can and most likely will be abused tomorrow under a different administration. It always amazes me that our party is usually so adamant in it’s protection of all amendments in the bill of rights except one. The same kind of incrementalism that the other side uses to infringe the other nine amendments- our own party tries to use those same tactics on the second.

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Is The Pop-Corn Franchise Available, Sir? The Magistrate May 2013 #1
The invisible hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. Robb May 2013 #4
Sure, extra butter is $0.75. Initech May 2013 #42
It seems that the store owner's property rights trump the gun-owner's carrying rights. antigone382 May 2013 #2
No.. it's about car owner property rights v employers. X_Digger May 2013 #5
But employers DO have billh58 May 2013 #7
So you'd be cool with a 'no bibles' or 'no DU bumperstickers' rule? How about.. X_Digger May 2013 #8
I didn't say that billh58 May 2013 #9
You didn't say it.. then you proceed to say it. LOL! X_Digger May 2013 #10
Not in Tennessee. And other employment-at-will states. Robb May 2013 #11
You're basing this on an AG's opinion in an untested premise? Okaay. X_Digger May 2013 #19
You gunners are certainly billh58 May 2013 #12
LOL, if you say so. X_Digger May 2013 #16
If you say so billh58 May 2013 #26
Any reason? Think again. X_Digger May 2013 #29
In a right to work billh58 May 2013 #31
Ahh, but 'no reason' is not 'for any reason' as you said. X_Digger May 2013 #32
Not walking anything billh58 May 2013 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author friendly_iconoclast May 2013 #40
You should walk it back, as he was correct and you were not friendly_iconoclast May 2013 #43
So there are no EEOC charges in those states? Fascinating. ;) n/t X_Digger May 2013 #44
"At will employment" means you can be fired for any unprotected reason. Brickbat May 2013 #36
You are misstating the law. former9thward May 2013 #34
Define objectionable. rrneck May 2013 #28
And again, we are billh58 May 2013 #33
I was born and raised in that state rrneck May 2013 #38
Growing up the sixties... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jun 2013 #46
The clear intent of billh58 May 2013 #3
Hah! Search Google News for: fired employee "returned with a gun"... friendly_iconoclast May 2013 #13
How many does it say billh58 May 2013 #18
That also means there's no way to gague the effectiveness of bans on guns in parking lots. friendly_iconoclast May 2013 #23
Let's see now billh58 May 2013 #30
Inconveniencing people "for the public good"-where else have we seen such a mindset? Oh yeah: friendly_iconoclast May 2013 #39
Right. What could possibly go wrong as a result of this bill? SharonAnn May 2013 #14
How many permit holders have been caught drinking? X_Digger May 2013 #21
The "If it only saves *one* life" meme is strong in this thread, isn't it? friendly_iconoclast May 2013 #25
That is disturbing, yep. X_Digger May 2013 #27
Carrying guns in bars is legal in quite a few states, actually. friendly_iconoclast May 2013 #24
Hmmm. Employees will be packing heat on their employer's property. madinmaryland May 2013 #6
Indeed, Sir The Magistrate May 2013 #15
Also, Sir madinmaryland May 2013 #17
If We Are To Have An Armed Populace, Sir The Magistrate May 2013 #20
This is the law in several right to work states. aikoaiko May 2013 #22
Um, you can have it both ways. You can't fire people due to race, even in states with at will laws The Straight Story May 2013 #37
What you have stated billh58 May 2013 #45
Wow, billh58 May 2013 #41
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