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Bad Thoughts

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58. The extent to which a concept can be argued to be unique matters

Fri May 31, 2013, 09:42 AM

May 2013

First, the discussion should be different for concepts and proper names. Wilhelm II probably became preeminent in order to emphasize his Germanness during WWI.

Second, the titles you refer to probably hold because of the sense that they are sui generis. Medieval and Early Modern kings emerged via feudal relationships: they might be recognized anywhere. However, in larger, more complex entities, power was conceptualized in other terms, like the uniting of the realm (Reich) or the people of the country (peuple or nation). Kaiser and Tsar probably hold because of the influence that those countries held at the time. The same could be said about Victoria: why did she not adopt an Indian title instead of being named Empress of India?

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Foreign kings' names [View all] Bucky May 2013 OP

Kaiser and Czar come from Ceaser and Emperor Drale May 2013 #1

We use Emperor for what the Austrians called Kaiser. So that's one exception. Bucky May 2013 #6

The Bonapartes were empereur, not roi Bad Thoughts May 2013 #57

Both "Kaiser" and "Czar" were derived from "Caesar" Canuckistanian May 2013 #2

English is a messy language with many languages at its roots. Cleita May 2013 #3

I'm pretty sure King doesn't come from Khan. Bucky May 2013 #9

Khan is a derivative of a Indo-Aryan language. Qatun is the female Cleita May 2013 #29

No, it's Turkic muriel_volestrangler May 2013 #59

It's up for debate. Even linguists aren't sure but Cleita May 2013 #62

If you can show a single linguist who considers it, fine muriel_volestrangler May 2013 #63

Frankly, who really cares. It's related to our words king and konig and it Cleita May 2013 #64

Not a Turk in sight in that chart muriel_volestrangler May 2013 #65

Khan's definitely Turkic, not Indo-European. (nt) Posteritatis May 2013 #39

Both 'Kaiser' And 'Czar', Sir, Derive From 'Caeser' The Magistrate May 2013 #4

Interesting. I'm still not sure why the courtesy was extended to Germany but not Austria. Bucky May 2013 #10

No Idea, Sir The Magistrate May 2013 #15

A lot of it's how those nations refer to the terms themselves Posteritatis May 2013 #40

Tenno is Emperor, reserved for the descendant of Amaterasu nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #5

Rey like the French roi is from OldEurope May 2013 #7

Yup nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #8

My favorite royal title is the feminine form of "assistant monarch" Bucky May 2013 #11

That is a good one nadinbrzezinski May 2013 #13

And marquess is male, weirdly Recursion May 2013 #36

'Marchioness', not '-ette' (nt) muriel_volestrangler May 2013 #60

d'oh Thank you (nt) Recursion May 2013 #61

Saying the name in their launguage seems proper to me. hrmjustin May 2013 #12

But how do you know how to pronounce them? OldEurope May 2013 #18

Research and luck. hrmjustin May 2013 #19

Many of us already meet a staggering variety of names and do alright. Posteritatis May 2013 #42

Refer 'Ri' or modern usage in my native tongue 'Righ' MichaelMcGuire May 2013 #14

Oh. So that's why it's called a "Royal Sandwich" Bucky May 2013 #16

Or, as the French pronounced it... Bucky May 2013 #17

It's pronounced 'ree' MichaelMcGuire May 2013 #21

In Ireland LibertyLover May 2013 #28

I can Ard Ri believe it! Bucky May 2013 #31

[wail of anguish] (nt) Posteritatis May 2013 #44

R� ruirech MichaelMcGuire May 2013 #48

haha unrelated sadly MichaelMcGuire May 2013 #20

Why say "Par-iss" and not "Par-eee"? Nye Bevan May 2013 #22

Paris is a city, not a king. uppityperson May 2013 #25

Thanks. That's very helpful (nt) Nye Bevan May 2013 #26

Pedantry is a two-edged sword. LooseWilly May 2013 #50

Right. Plus there's only one *real* Paris (and this is a Texan saying this) Bucky May 2013 #32

Because the English pronunciation hasn't changed as much as the French one has Spider Jerusalem May 2013 #37

Also the word: Italy in Italy is Italia. Prounounced: E-tah-lee-ah Tx4obama May 2013 #45

Let's call the whole thing off. Orrex May 2013 #23

I don't talk about them enough to worry about it Retrograde May 2013 #24

It has to do with importance historically Fearless May 2013 #27

I'm not sure either of those proposed rules work out in practice Bucky May 2013 #38

The extent to which a concept can be argued to be unique matters Bad Thoughts May 2013 #58

The opposite's often the case: tsar, reich, sultan... (nt) Posteritatis May 2013 #41

All easy to say. Fearless May 2013 #56

Well, today's Japanese Tenno Art_from_Ark May 2013 #30

I used to make that mistake too. Bucky May 2013 #33

I don't know where you learned that "mikado" means "gate" Art_from_Ark May 2013 #34

The emperor was also king of Hungary and Bohemia Recursion May 2013 #35

When in doubt I try to go by what's officially used in other languages Posteritatis May 2013 #43

I try to avoid anglicizing names if I know better LostOne4Ever May 2013 #46

Me too. I always say "zhong guo" (pronounced "jum gwoo") instead of China, for example. Nye Bevan May 2013 #47

This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane May 2013 #49

Do the Kims in North Korea count as 'kings' - grandfather - father - son - sounds like royalty. pampango May 2013 #51

I dunno. I go with what's common, and popular usage of words/terms isn't always logical NYC Liberal May 2013 #52

I think this is where "potato--potahto" come in. WinkyDink May 2013 #53

German: Imperator and Kaiser are different concepts Bad Thoughts May 2013 #54

And yet they were also Kings in their own right, as a separate question Recursion May 2013 #55