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dballance

(5,756 posts)

17. I Really Can't Support the Nurses on This One.

Sun Jun 2, 2013, 04:05 PM

Jun 2013

I believe the insulin injections are subcutaneous and not intravenous so the non-nurse doesn't have to find a vein. These days, there are also those "pens" where all you have to do is dial the dosage and hit the skin with it. I know a couple of my friends have these and they work well. I don't know if those are available for children or just adults. They're no more difficult to use than an Epi-Pen which, I hope, every school has on hand for allergic reactions.

Even if the non-nurse has to draw the insulin from some sort of ampule or vial it's not terribly difficult to get the dosage correct in the syringe. I've done this in the past quite easily.

Sure, I'd love to see all schools have a nurse on staff full-time. I'd like to see them continue to have art class, music class and libraries too. Unfortunately, that's not all possible in the current environment.

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Nurses take on schools over insulin shots (Obama is against the nurses union) [View all] Omaha Steve Jun 2013 OP

Steve on this one the nurses are wrong nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #1

Yep no insulin can mean death malaise Jun 2013 #3

The wrong dose or type of insulin can quickly cause death. No insulin takes a while. uppityperson Jun 2013 #7

I think schools should have a qualified nurse malaise Jun 2013 #8

911. And as dangerous as Ilsa Jun 2013 #181

you can die either way: hyperglycemia or hypoglycemia magical thyme Jun 2013 #220

Very true. And sometimes the parents Ilsa Jun 2013 #225

A realistic alternative might be Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #10

There are plenty of trained nurses but funding them is another thing. uppityperson Jun 2013 #27

Yeah, you give them the morning insulin & send them to school Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #78

There could be rules that address those things MiniMe Jun 2013 #145

It is not quite that simple. If a kid is sick, their blood sugar levels can change dramatically uppityperson Jun 2013 #189

Depends how high you are. DKA can cause death. Jennicut Jun 2013 #245

It all started when flu vaccine was given by accident to several students instead of insulin Omaha Steve Jun 2013 #4

You know how easy really it is? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #13

There is no shortage of nurses in CA. There is a shortage of nurses who will work high stress jobs uppityperson Jun 2013 #30

In my last job that's what we were ALL about: a higher standard of training than what is patrice Jun 2013 #68

i won't comment on your personal anecdote, but giving more job duties to lower-paid, less-trained HiPointDem Jun 2013 #87

Perhaps you'll pardon me if I take the words of at least some professionals actually in the field at patrice Jun 2013 #96

i expected nothing else, based on your take on this matter. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #97

You seem to be un-necessarily hostile. I think we agree on the core issues more than you patrice Jun 2013 #99

says the person who wrote: HiPointDem Jun 2013 #157

Well I'm a teacher and I will not give a shot to a kid at school proud2BlibKansan Jun 2013 #113

Read the suit. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #119

And what if Mom can't do it? proud2BlibKansan Jun 2013 #122

What if you don't have a nurse? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #138

baloney. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #161

You hire a nurse. That's what you do. proud2BlibKansan Jun 2013 #166

Yeah that's the theory nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #170

Administering insulin and monitoring for reactions is not in the CNA Scope of Practice. uppityperson Jun 2013 #193

Oh, much better to have Mom quit her job then. cprise Jun 2013 #213

So long as no one touches the football budget! Scootaloo Jun 2013 #215

"should a trained, but unlicensed non-medical worker be able to give insulin shots to public school" uppityperson Jun 2013 #125

the suit is about opening it up to be done by non-nurses, not just 'mom'. mom has always HiPointDem Jun 2013 #159

they wanted you to change catheters? That is outrageous. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #203

Yep proud2BlibKansan Jun 2013 #221

That's pure insanity Aerows Jun 2013 #263

No, the other choice is to hire nurses. LWolf Jun 2013 #219

Are the nurses primarily interested in the kids' health or... TreasonousBastard Jun 2013 #2

The Board of Nursing and FarPoint Jun 2013 #21

Exactly. thank you. nt uppityperson Jun 2013 #33

There's no nursing shortage in california. Schools are short of nurses because those positions HiPointDem Jun 2013 #28

If you are so interested in kids' health, you should be interested in having school nurses, rather HiPointDem Jun 2013 #39

Exactly, but it does sound like there is a shortage of wanting to pay for nurses arely staircase Jun 2013 #118

there's never a shortage of capitalists wanting to drive labor into the ground. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #148

agreed arely staircase Jun 2013 #169

I think there should be more school nurses. There should be more... TreasonousBastard Jun 2013 #126

Well, if you can't get a trained medical person, just give it to the office secretary. After all, uppityperson Jun 2013 #128

That's about it. Only nurses should... TreasonousBastard Jun 2013 #208

Having school Nurses is not a ridiculous demand. MattBaggins Jun 2013 #152

Missing the point... TreasonousBastard Jun 2013 #209

i guess they'll have to have mom take a long lunch and take the kid off school property. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #226

Under no circumstance Aerows Jun 2013 #262

Parents give insulin shots all the time. MineralMan Jun 2013 #5

That is like saying someone can be a brain surgeon FarPoint Jun 2013 #48

This ^^^^^^. Sure, just about anyone can give a shot.. likesmountains 52 Jun 2013 #110

And you do not think someone can be trained MineralMan Jun 2013 #111

Yes I do.... FarPoint Jun 2013 #259

You're thinking theoretically, and I'm thinking practically. MineralMan Jun 2013 #261

it's also about having the knowledge well-integrated enough at a deep enough level to do all HiPointDem Jun 2013 #163

But it won't be parents giving the shots to their children... usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #53

No, it will not be a janitor. MineralMan Jun 2013 #112

Such trained people exist now Fumesucker Jun 2013 #116

+1. what they mean is 'train' people to do one tiny subroutine, like a machine, without the HiPointDem Jun 2013 #165

No the teachers are not as qualified as a parent MattBaggins Jun 2013 #160

Parents go through extensive training Ilsa Jun 2013 #180

Last link isn't complete. Thinking back to when I first worked as a nurse, had to have a 2nd one uppityperson Jun 2013 #6

I ordinarily support labor. This time, however, is an exception. Laelth Jun 2013 #9

It is a true shortage Omaha Steve Jun 2013 #11

Schools don't want to hire nurses and its not because of a shortage of nurses, it's because of HiPointDem Jun 2013 #23

Seriously. Liability is a big issue here. Yes, kids need their lifesaving medicine BUT they need it uppityperson Jun 2013 #37

It's a *huge* issue, especially with school budgets already stressed. And it plays right into HiPointDem Jun 2013 #41

Friend of mine was a music teacher in elementary school. Got hrs cut, things added, ended up uppityperson Jun 2013 #45

"IF they raised the nurses wages" is the telling thing. There are plenty of nurses, just few who wil uppityperson Jun 2013 #34

school nurse postions are being cut, entirely defunded. thus we get propaganda articles like HiPointDem Jun 2013 #44

There's no shortage. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #32

There are whole districts that can't afford nurses. Money is the problem. DevonRex Jun 2013 #137

Seems like a third grader could give themselves injections? FarCenter Jun 2013 #12

Third graders under supervision regularly do, in fact nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #16

Figure skating looks easy too... FarPoint Jun 2013 #59

Diabetics are trained to self administer nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #77

I'm not in support of non-medical personnel administering insulin. FarPoint Jun 2013 #82

So you think we should issue a nurse nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #85

your discussion of what's done at home by adults is completely beside the point. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #88

To answer your question... FarPoint Jun 2013 #89

And what someone does at home is different than at school. uppityperson Jun 2013 #90

Alas the suit is not talking of the janitor nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #95

But nadin, you are not a school child but a highly trained Professional. Big difference between what uppityperson Jun 2013 #92

also what you do to yourself & what you do to someone else's children. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #227

Was just thinking this supernova Jun 2013 #18

This is not by any means a bad fight MattBaggins Jun 2013 #164

Technique...yes, it is not difficult... FarPoint Jun 2013 #65

As a type one diabetic myself and the father of a type one diabetic rl6214 Jun 2013 #14

Would you be ok having a school secretary give your kid insulin? uppityperson Jun 2013 #38

It doesn't work that way for many diabetics. Ilsa Jun 2013 #187

I agree and have been saying that throughout this thread. uppityperson Jun 2013 #190

I haven't been able to keep up with Ilsa Jun 2013 #192

The knowledge about the disease FarPoint Jun 2013 #83

As an insulin dependent diabetic.. yes they are MattBaggins Jun 2013 #167

"unlicensed non-medical worker"? 1. What could go wrong? 2. Who could have predicted...? WinkyDink Jun 2013 #15

I Really Can't Support the Nurses on This One. dballance Jun 2013 #17

It is not that simple MattBaggins Jun 2013 #168

the new normal... schools can't afford nurses usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #19

We never had a nurse at school, in the 70's-80's X_Digger Jun 2013 #22

we did. in the 50s. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #25

Perhaps it was the size.. I was in a rural area. X_Digger Jun 2013 #29

No nurse in elementary school FarCenter Jun 2013 #26

"Having start to end of day coverage on every day requires multiple nurses." = how's that? HiPointDem Jun 2013 #42

You need another nurse when the primary nurse is off sick, family emergency, etc. FarCenter Jun 2013 #46

Sort of like teachers, right? Why do we need teachers? uppityperson Jun 2013 #47

You need teachers because it is a school. FarCenter Jun 2013 #50

No you don't. Teacher aids/assistants can do most teaching. Have 1 or 2 licensed teachers on staff uppityperson Jun 2013 #51

If teachers aids/assistants are teaching, then they are teachers FarCenter Jun 2013 #56

No they are not. Teachers are licensed/certified different than TAs are. And times have changed uppityperson Jun 2013 #64

Schools full of children with medical issues. I guess we should bus them to the hospital for HiPointDem Jun 2013 #52

thats when i went to school, and we always had one usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #43

Of course there's a downward trend. That's why propaganda articles like this are necessary, to HiPointDem Jun 2013 #49

yeah, that is what i suspected usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #57

My kids attend a 30,000 student, 35+ campus district with ~10 shared nurses. Xithras Jun 2013 #236

There is no freaking nursing shortage in california. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #20

Thank you. That line is infuriating and wrong indeed. There are plenty of nurses, new grad and exper uppityperson Jun 2013 #40

I stand corrected Omaha Steve Jun 2013 #91

In these times one's first reaction to hearing of labor shortage should be to look for HiPointDem Jun 2013 #98

The article says it was a money shortage. Schools can't afford nurses. DevonRex Jun 2013 #135

Can they better afford Aerows Jun 2013 #265

We're on the same page here. DevonRex Jun 2013 #270

I was giving insulin injections to my grandfather at 14. X_Digger Jun 2013 #24

Isn't "family" a different category? WinkyDink Jun 2013 #31

+1. For one thing, they probably won't sue if you make a mistake. I can't believe the posters HiPointDem Jun 2013 #35

Sure, but the training given to family members takes about an hour tops. X_Digger Jun 2013 #36

Your wife presumably has a particular interest in her own health and access to medical care HiPointDem Jun 2013 #62

There are only two general types of insulin.. X_Digger Jun 2013 #100

You are comparing kids in school to an adult at home. Why do you want to risk kids at school? uppityperson Jun 2013 #101

I'm comparing one adult to the other (other being the person in the school who would be trained.) X_Digger Jun 2013 #103

So you agree having a trained medical professional is good. Not sure what your point is other than uppityperson Jun 2013 #106

Of course it's better. But is the alternative to have *no* insulin absent a nurse? X_Digger Jun 2013 #108

"no 'confounding medical problems' (that affect dosage of fast-acting insulin)" MattBaggins Jun 2013 #175

no, there are not only two types of insulin. You're misinformed. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #194

Okay, a mix of the two, as well. But generally, yes. X_Digger Jun 2013 #198

there are more than 3 types of insulin. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #202

There are"no 'confounding medical problems' (that affect dosage of fast-acting insulin)"? Seriously? uppityperson Jun 2013 #196

Did you even read your own link? X_Digger Jun 2013 #199

If you are a nurse, you should know that illness affects bs levels and hence may need a different uppityperson Jun 2013 #200

Yes, that's true.. but it's the same formula, always (assuming you're still eating.) X_Digger Jun 2013 #204

I will use small words. WHEN a kid gets sick, their blood sugar levels can vary and cause problems. uppityperson Jun 2013 #206

You dose fast-acting insulin based on two things- glucose level and expected meal size. X_Digger Jun 2013 #207

Being sick can may affect the insulin amounts needed. uppityperson Jun 2013 #217

That's the long-acting, not the fast-acting. X_Digger Jun 2013 #223

you have no idea. don't generalize from your own experience. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #228

Yes, I shouldn't generalize from what nursing schools teach. *snort* X_Digger Jun 2013 #230

Not what I was taught in nursing school. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. uppityperson Jun 2013 #231

Perhaps you're not reading my post.. X_Digger Jun 2013 #232

"that's the long acting, not the fast acting" uppityperson Jun 2013 #235

Apparently you AREN'T reading X_Digger Jun 2013 #237

"illness may affect blood glucose" and hence insulin is what I have been saying uppityperson Jun 2013 #239

Are you intentionally being obtuse? X_Digger Jun 2013 #240

"the result may change" is what I have been saying. I guess you agree with me but not sure why you uppityperson Jun 2013 #241

says the person who originally said there were only two kinds of insulin. and then said there were HiPointDem Jun 2013 #233

It's simple when it you or just one child in your family MattBaggins Jun 2013 #174

Then Mary gets a glucotab, and a stern look for not eating her PBJ while you wait for mom. X_Digger Jun 2013 #201

Type II versus Type I in a growing child Lars39 Jun 2013 #222

'except in emergencies' elleng Jun 2013 #54

WTF?? RandySF Jun 2013 #55

Are CNAs or CMAs "non-medical"? patrice Jun 2013 #60

They practice under supervision. And yes, from my experience, they're pretty non-medical. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #66

I have heard from some in the field that the whole profession has declined, STARTING with patrice Jun 2013 #75

Neoliberal economic policy & concentration of wealth & power are the root causes. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #76

I agree. If there ever was a field RIPE for worker owned co-operatives, you'd think this would be it patrice Jun 2013 #81

there are such, starting with doctors' practices. but the drivers of cost, wage cuts & HiPointDem Jun 2013 #94

I know dozens of Nurses MattBaggins Jun 2013 #178

The system does teach them basic science. You're just mistaken on that point. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #188

Would you let your kid near your wife? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #142

Doesn't "if no nurses are available" imply that if nurses ARE available the Obama administration sup patrice Jun 2013 #58

From the OP article....why a "shortage" uppityperson Jun 2013 #63

no, it doesn't. nurses are always available if you care to make it happen. the admin is just HiPointDem Jun 2013 #67

- or - they'd like to see the level of professionalism amongst med techs and such increased, which patrice Jun 2013 #70

There is NO nursing shortage. There are PLENTY of nurses. The only shortage is nurses who do not uppityperson Jun 2013 #71

There is no fucking nursing shortage. A 'med tech' works in a lab. It would be medical assistants HiPointDem Jun 2013 #74

Over-worked nurses with too many patients seem like issues that CNA/CMAs coud help ameliorate if patrice Jun 2013 #79

Nurses aren't overworked because of a CNA shortage, they're overworked because of budget HiPointDem Jun 2013 #80

I didn't intend to imply that. I have stood with nurses' local here & I have administered programs patrice Jun 2013 #86

There's no shortage of nurses *or* cnas. You are arguing for driving down wages & skill levels, HiPointDem Jun 2013 #93

Yes, "driving down" as long as the respective labor organizations are fighting each other instead patrice Jun 2013 #105

nurses have the professional status to administer insulin. CNAs don't. When they do, they will HiPointDem Jun 2013 #205

BULLSHIT. The article says budget cuts forced schools to let nurses go. DevonRex Jun 2013 #131

Telling quotes from OP article and CORRECT LINK uppityperson Jun 2013 #61

I know that the mom likely knows how to give the shots Hayabusa Jun 2013 #69

There is no liability issue because it's not the school doing it Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #130

i've had a lot of needles in me for the last few years. madrchsod Jun 2013 #72

A nurse having a problem finding your vein... Bay Boy Jun 2013 #102

Insulin is not administered into a vein Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #120

Insulin is not going into a vein nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #140

thanks.... i did`t know that. madrchsod Jun 2013 #183

You want to laugh? I used nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #185

Wondering here how the old hates between the AFL-CIO and SEIU, the main organizer for "lower" patrice Jun 2013 #73

On the local and state level everything is fine Omaha Steve Jun 2013 #153

Every school should have a nurse in the fist place. This seems nuts to me, to be limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #84

As a Husband & Father to type one diabetics... Yooperman Jun 2013 #104

Do you think school nurses "just..administer insulin"? uppityperson Jun 2013 #107

Of course not... Yooperman Jun 2013 #109

Yes you do MattBaggins Jun 2013 #179

Did you read my first post... Yooperman Jun 2013 #224

By some of the responses here it appears that anyone who can read a book, likesmountains 52 Jun 2013 #114

Or anyone can replace a college educated nurse. uppityperson Jun 2013 #115

Well, the thing is that 8 and 9 year olds are often taught to administer insulin Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #124

I agree. You need a licensed nurse NOT for boring meh stuff but to prevent things from going wrong & uppityperson Jun 2013 #127

Yeah! Little kids = problems Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #129

No problem. theaocp Jun 2013 #117

+10000 uppityperson Jun 2013 #123

The state will pay one way or another Aerows Jun 2013 #264

I've had over 50,000 insulin shots IDemo Jun 2013 #121

Dad was prescribed one of those, flex pens nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #139

I gave the pens a 90 day trial last year IDemo Jun 2013 #150

Dad's vision was a real issue. He started insulin five years before he passed. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #156

It's still difficult convincing myself that I need as much or more insulin when sick IDemo Jun 2013 #176

Did the only metmorfin dance nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #186

Do keep in mind that those pens click for each dose MattBaggins Jun 2013 #182

I'd think a blind person would have more trouble with the disposable needles. X_Digger Jun 2013 #212

The American Diabetes Association agrees with the Obama Administration. DevonRex Jun 2013 #132

Then the ADA is wrong, IDemo Jun 2013 #134

The schools can't afford nurses. Period. So now diabetic children can't be educated? DevonRex Jun 2013 #136

'Children' represents a large group IDemo Jun 2013 #162

Can they afford lawsuits? Aerows Jun 2013 #266

Agreed. I think this is maneuvering by DOJ to get CA DevonRex Jun 2013 #268

I was recently on a flight, about 30 minutes in, when the flight attendant asked over the speaker likesmountains 52 Jun 2013 #133

How many diabetic children are there in grade school ? newmember Jun 2013 #141

Technical, but that is part of your answer nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #144

Forgive my ignorance but the woman who wrote the book claims newmember Jun 2013 #146

It's not diabetes we have nurses for nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #147

It's a long time ago but I remember when I went to grade school we had a school nurse. newmember Jun 2013 #151

That is most of what a school nurse does nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #158

In some schools the school nurse is the child's only likesmountains 52 Jun 2013 #172

I made that point somewhere else nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #173

about 19/100,000 children have type 1, and about 8/100,000 have type 2. both types can require HiPointDem Jun 2013 #149

So what am I missing here ? maybe I need to read the article again newmember Jun 2013 #155

They have been taking nurses out of schools. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #191

That sounds crazy to me newmember Jun 2013 #210

Data from the 2011 National Diabetes Fact Sheet (released Jan. 26, 2011) uppityperson Jun 2013 #197

Time to look at this as a way to employ more nurses and not to the fact that there are not enough midnight Jun 2013 #143

A teacher's take on this dsc Jun 2013 #154

from this texas teacher arely staircase Jun 2013 #171

Diastat! Yep. And where are these drugs to be kept? Ilsa Jun 2013 #195

At some hospitals, it has been policy that TWO Ilsa Jun 2013 #177

Agree. At my hospital insulin must be checked by 2 RNS likesmountains 52 Jun 2013 #184

Yet another example of downward wage pressure effects in healthcare NoodleyAppendage Jun 2013 #211

Every election we vote to give more money for education abelenkpe Jun 2013 #214

There is plenty of money in CA, we're one of the top 10 economies in the world . Starry Messenger Jun 2013 #216

We used to give our dog Luka allergy shots Omaha Steve Jun 2013 #218

Demonstrates the priority of the Nurses Union... Riftaxe Jun 2013 #229

it's not just about giving the shot. the priorities of the state are clear too. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #234

There is that as well, but many adults Riftaxe Jun 2013 #242

I disagree, and I don't think you grasp all the issues involved. Physically giving a shot of HiPointDem Jun 2013 #246

Well, to take a differ nt opinion Riftaxe Jun 2013 #247

the kid will get his medication if there's a nurse. if you're so concerned about children getting HiPointDem Jun 2013 #248

I would prefer he does get his medication from a nurse Riftaxe Jun 2013 #249

i have no idea what you're talking about. i'm literate in a couple of languages. perhaps i just HiPointDem Jun 2013 #251

Perhaps concentrate on English Riftaxe Jun 2013 #253

ah, yes, english -- mr 'writing things done'. perhaps you'd better concentrate on your own, HiPointDem Jun 2013 #255

you got me, i made a typo, i will now commit seppuku Riftaxe Jun 2013 #256

you called me illiterate, now you act like my pointing out your 'typo' in response is some kind HiPointDem Jun 2013 #257

what are you talking about? my edits weren't to correct grammar or spelling mistakes. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #258

Most people are physically capable of giving a shot. However, there is a whole lot more uppityperson Jun 2013 #238

flexipens regulate the amount well enough Riftaxe Jun 2013 #243

I'm a type 1 diabetic. Giving shots is easy with an insulin pen. I give myself 5 shots a day. Jennicut Jun 2013 #244

you know your own body and your own meds. suggesting that teachers should be HiPointDem Jun 2013 #250

This is why we have physicians Riftaxe Jun 2013 #252

'writing things done' (sic) does not = carrying them out properly and safely. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #254

I do think there should be nurses on staff. But in areas the school district won't pay for them Jennicut Jun 2013 #260

no, you don't. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #269

If a school district can't afford a nurse Aerows Jun 2013 #267