General Discussion

FarPoint

(14,805 posts)

259. Yes I do....

Wed Jun 5, 2013, 05:41 AM

Jun 2013

A nurse has been formally trained for this task. A nurse is licensed by a governing board in each state which tells the public that this nurse is competent and responsible to administer insulin, following physician orders, in a public or clinical setting. It identifies that this nurse practices a standard of care.

Lets think about it...your suggesting there be non-medical employees at the school shown how to administer insulin....this tells me the non-medical staff member, be it voluntary or a delegated task would be practicing medicine without a license.

Another thought. If the public does not demand nurses be staffed for such duties and accept the below standard clinical care then...it will never change...it will not be a temporary setting as the bell was rung and this is a downward tailspin thereafter...

Parents or family caregivers are trained to administer insulin...that relationship has a different liability dynamic where they assume the risk and responsibility. A school employee does not fall into this category as they can not practice nursing without a license.

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Nurses take on schools over insulin shots (Obama is against the nurses union) [View all] Omaha Steve Jun 2013 OP

Steve on this one the nurses are wrong nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #1

Yep no insulin can mean death malaise Jun 2013 #3

The wrong dose or type of insulin can quickly cause death. No insulin takes a while. uppityperson Jun 2013 #7

I think schools should have a qualified nurse malaise Jun 2013 #8

911. And as dangerous as Ilsa Jun 2013 #181

you can die either way: hyperglycemia or hypoglycemia magical thyme Jun 2013 #220

Very true. And sometimes the parents Ilsa Jun 2013 #225

A realistic alternative might be Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #10

There are plenty of trained nurses but funding them is another thing. uppityperson Jun 2013 #27

Yeah, you give them the morning insulin & send them to school Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #78

There could be rules that address those things MiniMe Jun 2013 #145

It is not quite that simple. If a kid is sick, their blood sugar levels can change dramatically uppityperson Jun 2013 #189

Depends how high you are. DKA can cause death. Jennicut Jun 2013 #245

It all started when flu vaccine was given by accident to several students instead of insulin Omaha Steve Jun 2013 #4

You know how easy really it is? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #13

There is no shortage of nurses in CA. There is a shortage of nurses who will work high stress jobs uppityperson Jun 2013 #30

In my last job that's what we were ALL about: a higher standard of training than what is patrice Jun 2013 #68

i won't comment on your personal anecdote, but giving more job duties to lower-paid, less-trained HiPointDem Jun 2013 #87

Perhaps you'll pardon me if I take the words of at least some professionals actually in the field at patrice Jun 2013 #96

i expected nothing else, based on your take on this matter. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #97

You seem to be un-necessarily hostile. I think we agree on the core issues more than you patrice Jun 2013 #99

says the person who wrote: HiPointDem Jun 2013 #157

Well I'm a teacher and I will not give a shot to a kid at school proud2BlibKansan Jun 2013 #113

Read the suit. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #119

And what if Mom can't do it? proud2BlibKansan Jun 2013 #122

What if you don't have a nurse? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #138

baloney. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #161

You hire a nurse. That's what you do. proud2BlibKansan Jun 2013 #166

Yeah that's the theory nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #170

Administering insulin and monitoring for reactions is not in the CNA Scope of Practice. uppityperson Jun 2013 #193

Oh, much better to have Mom quit her job then. cprise Jun 2013 #213

So long as no one touches the football budget! Scootaloo Jun 2013 #215

"should a trained, but unlicensed non-medical worker be able to give insulin shots to public school" uppityperson Jun 2013 #125

the suit is about opening it up to be done by non-nurses, not just 'mom'. mom has always HiPointDem Jun 2013 #159

they wanted you to change catheters? That is outrageous. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #203

Yep proud2BlibKansan Jun 2013 #221

That's pure insanity Aerows Jun 2013 #263

No, the other choice is to hire nurses. LWolf Jun 2013 #219

Are the nurses primarily interested in the kids' health or... TreasonousBastard Jun 2013 #2

The Board of Nursing and FarPoint Jun 2013 #21

Exactly. thank you. nt uppityperson Jun 2013 #33

There's no nursing shortage in california. Schools are short of nurses because those positions HiPointDem Jun 2013 #28

If you are so interested in kids' health, you should be interested in having school nurses, rather HiPointDem Jun 2013 #39

Exactly, but it does sound like there is a shortage of wanting to pay for nurses arely staircase Jun 2013 #118

there's never a shortage of capitalists wanting to drive labor into the ground. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #148

agreed arely staircase Jun 2013 #169

I think there should be more school nurses. There should be more... TreasonousBastard Jun 2013 #126

Well, if you can't get a trained medical person, just give it to the office secretary. After all, uppityperson Jun 2013 #128

That's about it. Only nurses should... TreasonousBastard Jun 2013 #208

Having school Nurses is not a ridiculous demand. MattBaggins Jun 2013 #152

Missing the point... TreasonousBastard Jun 2013 #209

i guess they'll have to have mom take a long lunch and take the kid off school property. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #226

Under no circumstance Aerows Jun 2013 #262

Parents give insulin shots all the time. MineralMan Jun 2013 #5

That is like saying someone can be a brain surgeon FarPoint Jun 2013 #48

This ^^^^^^. Sure, just about anyone can give a shot.. likesmountains 52 Jun 2013 #110

And you do not think someone can be trained MineralMan Jun 2013 #111

Yes I do.... FarPoint Jun 2013 #259

You're thinking theoretically, and I'm thinking practically. MineralMan Jun 2013 #261

it's also about having the knowledge well-integrated enough at a deep enough level to do all HiPointDem Jun 2013 #163

But it won't be parents giving the shots to their children... usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #53

No, it will not be a janitor. MineralMan Jun 2013 #112

Such trained people exist now Fumesucker Jun 2013 #116

+1. what they mean is 'train' people to do one tiny subroutine, like a machine, without the HiPointDem Jun 2013 #165

No the teachers are not as qualified as a parent MattBaggins Jun 2013 #160

Parents go through extensive training Ilsa Jun 2013 #180

Last link isn't complete. Thinking back to when I first worked as a nurse, had to have a 2nd one uppityperson Jun 2013 #6

I ordinarily support labor. This time, however, is an exception. Laelth Jun 2013 #9

It is a true shortage Omaha Steve Jun 2013 #11

Schools don't want to hire nurses and its not because of a shortage of nurses, it's because of HiPointDem Jun 2013 #23

Seriously. Liability is a big issue here. Yes, kids need their lifesaving medicine BUT they need it uppityperson Jun 2013 #37

It's a *huge* issue, especially with school budgets already stressed. And it plays right into HiPointDem Jun 2013 #41

Friend of mine was a music teacher in elementary school. Got hrs cut, things added, ended up uppityperson Jun 2013 #45

"IF they raised the nurses wages" is the telling thing. There are plenty of nurses, just few who wil uppityperson Jun 2013 #34

school nurse postions are being cut, entirely defunded. thus we get propaganda articles like HiPointDem Jun 2013 #44

There's no shortage. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #32

There are whole districts that can't afford nurses. Money is the problem. DevonRex Jun 2013 #137

Seems like a third grader could give themselves injections? FarCenter Jun 2013 #12

Third graders under supervision regularly do, in fact nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #16

Figure skating looks easy too... FarPoint Jun 2013 #59

Diabetics are trained to self administer nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #77

I'm not in support of non-medical personnel administering insulin. FarPoint Jun 2013 #82

So you think we should issue a nurse nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #85

your discussion of what's done at home by adults is completely beside the point. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #88

To answer your question... FarPoint Jun 2013 #89

And what someone does at home is different than at school. uppityperson Jun 2013 #90

Alas the suit is not talking of the janitor nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #95

But nadin, you are not a school child but a highly trained Professional. Big difference between what uppityperson Jun 2013 #92

also what you do to yourself & what you do to someone else's children. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #227

Was just thinking this supernova Jun 2013 #18

This is not by any means a bad fight MattBaggins Jun 2013 #164

Technique...yes, it is not difficult... FarPoint Jun 2013 #65

As a type one diabetic myself and the father of a type one diabetic rl6214 Jun 2013 #14

Would you be ok having a school secretary give your kid insulin? uppityperson Jun 2013 #38

It doesn't work that way for many diabetics. Ilsa Jun 2013 #187

I agree and have been saying that throughout this thread. uppityperson Jun 2013 #190

I haven't been able to keep up with Ilsa Jun 2013 #192

The knowledge about the disease FarPoint Jun 2013 #83

As an insulin dependent diabetic.. yes they are MattBaggins Jun 2013 #167

"unlicensed non-medical worker"? 1. What could go wrong? 2. Who could have predicted...? WinkyDink Jun 2013 #15

I Really Can't Support the Nurses on This One. dballance Jun 2013 #17

It is not that simple MattBaggins Jun 2013 #168

the new normal... schools can't afford nurses usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #19

We never had a nurse at school, in the 70's-80's X_Digger Jun 2013 #22

we did. in the 50s. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #25

Perhaps it was the size.. I was in a rural area. X_Digger Jun 2013 #29

No nurse in elementary school FarCenter Jun 2013 #26

"Having start to end of day coverage on every day requires multiple nurses." = how's that? HiPointDem Jun 2013 #42

You need another nurse when the primary nurse is off sick, family emergency, etc. FarCenter Jun 2013 #46

Sort of like teachers, right? Why do we need teachers? uppityperson Jun 2013 #47

You need teachers because it is a school. FarCenter Jun 2013 #50

No you don't. Teacher aids/assistants can do most teaching. Have 1 or 2 licensed teachers on staff uppityperson Jun 2013 #51

If teachers aids/assistants are teaching, then they are teachers FarCenter Jun 2013 #56

No they are not. Teachers are licensed/certified different than TAs are. And times have changed uppityperson Jun 2013 #64

Schools full of children with medical issues. I guess we should bus them to the hospital for HiPointDem Jun 2013 #52

thats when i went to school, and we always had one usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #43

Of course there's a downward trend. That's why propaganda articles like this are necessary, to HiPointDem Jun 2013 #49

yeah, that is what i suspected usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #57

My kids attend a 30,000 student, 35+ campus district with ~10 shared nurses. Xithras Jun 2013 #236

There is no freaking nursing shortage in california. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #20

Thank you. That line is infuriating and wrong indeed. There are plenty of nurses, new grad and exper uppityperson Jun 2013 #40

I stand corrected Omaha Steve Jun 2013 #91

In these times one's first reaction to hearing of labor shortage should be to look for HiPointDem Jun 2013 #98

The article says it was a money shortage. Schools can't afford nurses. DevonRex Jun 2013 #135

Can they better afford Aerows Jun 2013 #265

We're on the same page here. DevonRex Jun 2013 #270

I was giving insulin injections to my grandfather at 14. X_Digger Jun 2013 #24

Isn't "family" a different category? WinkyDink Jun 2013 #31

+1. For one thing, they probably won't sue if you make a mistake. I can't believe the posters HiPointDem Jun 2013 #35

Sure, but the training given to family members takes about an hour tops. X_Digger Jun 2013 #36

Your wife presumably has a particular interest in her own health and access to medical care HiPointDem Jun 2013 #62

There are only two general types of insulin.. X_Digger Jun 2013 #100

You are comparing kids in school to an adult at home. Why do you want to risk kids at school? uppityperson Jun 2013 #101

I'm comparing one adult to the other (other being the person in the school who would be trained.) X_Digger Jun 2013 #103

So you agree having a trained medical professional is good. Not sure what your point is other than uppityperson Jun 2013 #106

Of course it's better. But is the alternative to have *no* insulin absent a nurse? X_Digger Jun 2013 #108

"no 'confounding medical problems' (that affect dosage of fast-acting insulin)" MattBaggins Jun 2013 #175

no, there are not only two types of insulin. You're misinformed. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #194

Okay, a mix of the two, as well. But generally, yes. X_Digger Jun 2013 #198

there are more than 3 types of insulin. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #202

There are"no 'confounding medical problems' (that affect dosage of fast-acting insulin)"? Seriously? uppityperson Jun 2013 #196

Did you even read your own link? X_Digger Jun 2013 #199

If you are a nurse, you should know that illness affects bs levels and hence may need a different uppityperson Jun 2013 #200

Yes, that's true.. but it's the same formula, always (assuming you're still eating.) X_Digger Jun 2013 #204

I will use small words. WHEN a kid gets sick, their blood sugar levels can vary and cause problems. uppityperson Jun 2013 #206

You dose fast-acting insulin based on two things- glucose level and expected meal size. X_Digger Jun 2013 #207

Being sick can may affect the insulin amounts needed. uppityperson Jun 2013 #217

That's the long-acting, not the fast-acting. X_Digger Jun 2013 #223

you have no idea. don't generalize from your own experience. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #228

Yes, I shouldn't generalize from what nursing schools teach. *snort* X_Digger Jun 2013 #230

Not what I was taught in nursing school. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't. uppityperson Jun 2013 #231

Perhaps you're not reading my post.. X_Digger Jun 2013 #232

"that's the long acting, not the fast acting" uppityperson Jun 2013 #235

Apparently you AREN'T reading X_Digger Jun 2013 #237

"illness may affect blood glucose" and hence insulin is what I have been saying uppityperson Jun 2013 #239

Are you intentionally being obtuse? X_Digger Jun 2013 #240

"the result may change" is what I have been saying. I guess you agree with me but not sure why you uppityperson Jun 2013 #241

says the person who originally said there were only two kinds of insulin. and then said there were HiPointDem Jun 2013 #233

It's simple when it you or just one child in your family MattBaggins Jun 2013 #174

Then Mary gets a glucotab, and a stern look for not eating her PBJ while you wait for mom. X_Digger Jun 2013 #201

Type II versus Type I in a growing child Lars39 Jun 2013 #222

'except in emergencies' elleng Jun 2013 #54

WTF?? RandySF Jun 2013 #55

Are CNAs or CMAs "non-medical"? patrice Jun 2013 #60

They practice under supervision. And yes, from my experience, they're pretty non-medical. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #66

I have heard from some in the field that the whole profession has declined, STARTING with patrice Jun 2013 #75

Neoliberal economic policy & concentration of wealth & power are the root causes. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #76

I agree. If there ever was a field RIPE for worker owned co-operatives, you'd think this would be it patrice Jun 2013 #81

there are such, starting with doctors' practices. but the drivers of cost, wage cuts & HiPointDem Jun 2013 #94

I know dozens of Nurses MattBaggins Jun 2013 #178

The system does teach them basic science. You're just mistaken on that point. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #188

Would you let your kid near your wife? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #142

Doesn't "if no nurses are available" imply that if nurses ARE available the Obama administration sup patrice Jun 2013 #58

From the OP article....why a "shortage" uppityperson Jun 2013 #63

no, it doesn't. nurses are always available if you care to make it happen. the admin is just HiPointDem Jun 2013 #67

- or - they'd like to see the level of professionalism amongst med techs and such increased, which patrice Jun 2013 #70

There is NO nursing shortage. There are PLENTY of nurses. The only shortage is nurses who do not uppityperson Jun 2013 #71

There is no fucking nursing shortage. A 'med tech' works in a lab. It would be medical assistants HiPointDem Jun 2013 #74

Over-worked nurses with too many patients seem like issues that CNA/CMAs coud help ameliorate if patrice Jun 2013 #79

Nurses aren't overworked because of a CNA shortage, they're overworked because of budget HiPointDem Jun 2013 #80

I didn't intend to imply that. I have stood with nurses' local here & I have administered programs patrice Jun 2013 #86

There's no shortage of nurses *or* cnas. You are arguing for driving down wages & skill levels, HiPointDem Jun 2013 #93

Yes, "driving down" as long as the respective labor organizations are fighting each other instead patrice Jun 2013 #105

nurses have the professional status to administer insulin. CNAs don't. When they do, they will HiPointDem Jun 2013 #205

BULLSHIT. The article says budget cuts forced schools to let nurses go. DevonRex Jun 2013 #131

Telling quotes from OP article and CORRECT LINK uppityperson Jun 2013 #61

I know that the mom likely knows how to give the shots Hayabusa Jun 2013 #69

There is no liability issue because it's not the school doing it Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #130

i've had a lot of needles in me for the last few years. madrchsod Jun 2013 #72

A nurse having a problem finding your vein... Bay Boy Jun 2013 #102

Insulin is not administered into a vein Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #120

Insulin is not going into a vein nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #140

thanks.... i did`t know that. madrchsod Jun 2013 #183

You want to laugh? I used nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #185

Wondering here how the old hates between the AFL-CIO and SEIU, the main organizer for "lower" patrice Jun 2013 #73

On the local and state level everything is fine Omaha Steve Jun 2013 #153

Every school should have a nurse in the fist place. This seems nuts to me, to be limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #84

As a Husband & Father to type one diabetics... Yooperman Jun 2013 #104

Do you think school nurses "just..administer insulin"? uppityperson Jun 2013 #107

Of course not... Yooperman Jun 2013 #109

Yes you do MattBaggins Jun 2013 #179

Did you read my first post... Yooperman Jun 2013 #224

By some of the responses here it appears that anyone who can read a book, likesmountains 52 Jun 2013 #114

Or anyone can replace a college educated nurse. uppityperson Jun 2013 #115

Well, the thing is that 8 and 9 year olds are often taught to administer insulin Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #124

I agree. You need a licensed nurse NOT for boring meh stuff but to prevent things from going wrong & uppityperson Jun 2013 #127

Yeah! Little kids = problems Yo_Mama Jun 2013 #129

No problem. theaocp Jun 2013 #117

+10000 uppityperson Jun 2013 #123

The state will pay one way or another Aerows Jun 2013 #264

I've had over 50,000 insulin shots IDemo Jun 2013 #121

Dad was prescribed one of those, flex pens nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #139

I gave the pens a 90 day trial last year IDemo Jun 2013 #150

Dad's vision was a real issue. He started insulin five years before he passed. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #156

It's still difficult convincing myself that I need as much or more insulin when sick IDemo Jun 2013 #176

Did the only metmorfin dance nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #186

Do keep in mind that those pens click for each dose MattBaggins Jun 2013 #182

I'd think a blind person would have more trouble with the disposable needles. X_Digger Jun 2013 #212

The American Diabetes Association agrees with the Obama Administration. DevonRex Jun 2013 #132

Then the ADA is wrong, IDemo Jun 2013 #134

The schools can't afford nurses. Period. So now diabetic children can't be educated? DevonRex Jun 2013 #136

'Children' represents a large group IDemo Jun 2013 #162

Can they afford lawsuits? Aerows Jun 2013 #266

Agreed. I think this is maneuvering by DOJ to get CA DevonRex Jun 2013 #268

I was recently on a flight, about 30 minutes in, when the flight attendant asked over the speaker likesmountains 52 Jun 2013 #133

How many diabetic children are there in grade school ? newmember Jun 2013 #141

Technical, but that is part of your answer nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #144

Forgive my ignorance but the woman who wrote the book claims newmember Jun 2013 #146

It's not diabetes we have nurses for nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #147

It's a long time ago but I remember when I went to grade school we had a school nurse. newmember Jun 2013 #151

That is most of what a school nurse does nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #158

In some schools the school nurse is the child's only likesmountains 52 Jun 2013 #172

I made that point somewhere else nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #173

about 19/100,000 children have type 1, and about 8/100,000 have type 2. both types can require HiPointDem Jun 2013 #149

So what am I missing here ? maybe I need to read the article again newmember Jun 2013 #155

They have been taking nurses out of schools. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #191

That sounds crazy to me newmember Jun 2013 #210

Data from the 2011 National Diabetes Fact Sheet (released Jan. 26, 2011) uppityperson Jun 2013 #197

Time to look at this as a way to employ more nurses and not to the fact that there are not enough midnight Jun 2013 #143

A teacher's take on this dsc Jun 2013 #154

from this texas teacher arely staircase Jun 2013 #171

Diastat! Yep. And where are these drugs to be kept? Ilsa Jun 2013 #195

At some hospitals, it has been policy that TWO Ilsa Jun 2013 #177

Agree. At my hospital insulin must be checked by 2 RNS likesmountains 52 Jun 2013 #184

Yet another example of downward wage pressure effects in healthcare NoodleyAppendage Jun 2013 #211

Every election we vote to give more money for education abelenkpe Jun 2013 #214

There is plenty of money in CA, we're one of the top 10 economies in the world . Starry Messenger Jun 2013 #216

We used to give our dog Luka allergy shots Omaha Steve Jun 2013 #218

Demonstrates the priority of the Nurses Union... Riftaxe Jun 2013 #229

it's not just about giving the shot. the priorities of the state are clear too. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #234

There is that as well, but many adults Riftaxe Jun 2013 #242

I disagree, and I don't think you grasp all the issues involved. Physically giving a shot of HiPointDem Jun 2013 #246

Well, to take a differ nt opinion Riftaxe Jun 2013 #247

the kid will get his medication if there's a nurse. if you're so concerned about children getting HiPointDem Jun 2013 #248

I would prefer he does get his medication from a nurse Riftaxe Jun 2013 #249

i have no idea what you're talking about. i'm literate in a couple of languages. perhaps i just HiPointDem Jun 2013 #251

Perhaps concentrate on English Riftaxe Jun 2013 #253

ah, yes, english -- mr 'writing things done'. perhaps you'd better concentrate on your own, HiPointDem Jun 2013 #255

you got me, i made a typo, i will now commit seppuku Riftaxe Jun 2013 #256

you called me illiterate, now you act like my pointing out your 'typo' in response is some kind HiPointDem Jun 2013 #257

what are you talking about? my edits weren't to correct grammar or spelling mistakes. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #258

Most people are physically capable of giving a shot. However, there is a whole lot more uppityperson Jun 2013 #238

flexipens regulate the amount well enough Riftaxe Jun 2013 #243

I'm a type 1 diabetic. Giving shots is easy with an insulin pen. I give myself 5 shots a day. Jennicut Jun 2013 #244

you know your own body and your own meds. suggesting that teachers should be HiPointDem Jun 2013 #250

This is why we have physicians Riftaxe Jun 2013 #252

'writing things done' (sic) does not = carrying them out properly and safely. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #254

I do think there should be nurses on staff. But in areas the school district won't pay for them Jennicut Jun 2013 #260

no, you don't. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #269

If a school district can't afford a nurse Aerows Jun 2013 #267