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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
92. As I mentioned in an Earlier post, UK and Europe did not go crazy over freedom of Contract
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 05:05 PM
Jun 2013

The US Constitution has a clause that forbids states from interfering with existing contracts. The intention was that States could not abolish private debts (which had support in the 1780s). It was a good provision rarely cited till about 100 years later.

Around 1900 (and actually starting about 1860), the US (following the UK's lead) re-wrote much of the Common Law. Long held law were reversed. For example, Rent due on rental property (unless it was clear, generally in a writing that other terms had been agreed on) went from being due at the end of the year and all leases being one year in length to the present norm of rent being due at the beginning of the month and the lease term being only one month in length (Please note this is a legal assumption that can be varied based on other evidence, i.e. a written one year lease would mean a one year lease not a one month lease).

Another change was from the old rule that people were presumed to be hired for one whole year (and often paid at the end of the year) to the present rule that people are paid monthy and can be fired or quit at any time.

The "Three evil sisters of the Common Law" finally crossed the ocean (the Three sisters, The Fellow Servant rule, Assumption of the risk, and contributory negligence) . These three evil sisters did not exist even in England prior to about 1800, but finally adopted in the US after about 1860.

The US then expanded the Contract clause of the US Constitution to forbid any regulation that restrict people's right to contract. For Example in 1905 the US Supreme Court ruled it was a violation of the Contact clause (and substantial due process) for a state to forbid a baker from working more then 16 hours a day. Lower courts expanded on this to include forcing people to do things they had contracted to do (and this being post Civil War, the courts had to work around the wording of the Post Civil War Amendments in regards to slavery and did so, if a contract was entered into).

After 1900 this movement ran into reality, but then demand that if a State or Federal Government wanted to regulate something, there had to be overwhelming evidence to support the need for such regulation.

That was the situation in 1900, when more people lived in RURAL American then URBAN American. That would reverse by 1920 and with that reversal a desire to regulate what went on where in urban areas. prostitution had always existed both in Urban and Rural America but starting about 1900 the need to regulate it became more and more a demand from the Upper Middle Class who did NOT want it in their neighborhoods (This same desire to protect they neighborhoods would later lead to Zoning Laws, that barely survived a Constitutional attack in the 1920s). Given this opposition to regulation and no one wanting to pay money to defend local regulation of prostitution all the way up to the US Supreme Court, most cities opt for one way the Supreme Court has permitted regulation, making something illegal.

Once the act of prostitution was illegal, any contract involving prostitution was no longer a valid enforceable contract. The Supreme Court had long ruled that a State could regulate contracts to be entered into in the FUTURE just could not regulate existing contracts. Thus the only way to regulate prostitution was to make it illegal. The need to regulate was clear by 1900 so between 1900 and 1920 prostitution was made illegal in most areas of the US.

From that point on the Police and local courts regulated prostitution through they ability to arrest anyone doing it for it was illegal. The primary concern was where prostitution occurred, thus prostitutes were often left alone in certain areas the police knew they operated in, but arrested elsewhere. Some jurisdiction added medical testing, but most did not for the concern was not the prostitutes but upper middle class residents complaining about them operating in their neighborhoods or where they went shopping.

By the 1930s this system or regulation was working and continued to work to this day. Is it perfect? no, but it is a system of regulation the Police and Courts are use to. In fact most proposals to legalize prostitution keep running across the same problems that lead to prostitution being illegal. How to regulate it and keep it out of certain neighborhoods?

To be constitutional Zoning has to Zone for everyone, right now no one needs to zone for prostitutes for prostitution is illegal (and legal sex industry, i.e. "Gentlemen's clubs" have a hard time getting permission to open due to "Zoning concerns&quot . This is one of the biggest problem when it comes to legal prostitution, where do you want it to occur? LA, which has legal marijuana, has had pressure to close down most if not all of the cannabis stores. Not because people want marijuana (including businessmen in commercial districts) to be illegal, the just do NOT want the store in their neighborhoods. Bars have a similar problem, unless there are pre-existing, hard to get a new one built except if it is a restaurant or "sport's bar" i.e. where food is clearly first and booze second.

Thus WHERE the prostitutes will be permitted to work is the biggest question as to legalization. No one even mentions this, for to mention is to address it and to address it you have to decide where it will be. The problem is NO ONE WANTS IT IS THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD and thus its mostly exists in poorer neighborhoods where the police leave it exists for the poor have the worse voting record. The problem is then these poor neighborhoods slowly lose population and the people that can vote with their feet. This just makes the place even worse and sooner or later something has to be done, the neighborhood is destroyed and the prostitutes move to the next section of poor housing.

Even if the prostitutes stay inside, such houses bring with them some bad characters. Now, high end ones do not, but most prostitutes are NOT $1000 a nighters, most $25 to $50 for a quickee. The high end no one really cares about, except the prostitutes only work there in their "prime" and then go to lower rates after get to old, i.e. over 25 (25 is also the general cut off for Strip Clubs, you do have some older, but most are below age 25). Thus the concern is not the high end 21 year old hooker, but the same person five years later. You see a general deterioration of where such prostitute work even in Nevada. The legal places have the young ones, then when they get to old the prostitutes go to lower rates houses. Drug abuse adds the decline in where the prostitutes works.

Now, $1000 a night prostitute can do their business in a high end housing and no one will complain. The problem is at best this is just for a few years AND most prostitutes are NEVER in a position to charge a $1000 for their services (The going rate is much lower often $25 to $50 for a quickee). It is this vast majority that people object to, not the $1000 hookers (Most are amazed that there are men who can pay $1000 for a one night stand, most people, including most men could not even image paying that much for a one night stand).

Thus the thrust of regulations in the US had been aimed at making sure prostitutes operate only in certain areas and during certain times. Even the $1000 a night hookers get busted if the Police finds that what the are doing is outside the area where they are suppose to work. The Police, Courts and local Government understand the present regulatory system (Prostitution is technically illegal, thus the Police can regulate by arresting anyone operating NOT where the police want them to be). It may not be logically or what other countries have done, but this regulatory system has worked in the US since about 1900 and given what has to occur if prostitution was legalized, including actually formally deciding where it shall occur, the present system of regulation is the best we can do in the USA.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

k/r marmar Jun 2013 #1
public health??? Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #2
you could throw every other person in prison for that 'crime'. nt xchrom Jun 2013 #4
maybe they could get rehab in prison... Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #6
Your optimism about our penal system theaocp Jun 2013 #14
not morals.... public health Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #15
I'll assume you're on the side of public health theaocp Jun 2013 #17
regulation Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #19
Criminalization... TommyCelt Jun 2013 #22
decriminization Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #25
Explain Nevada then. It has a well regulated prostitution business, the girls are safe from pimps Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #45
{crickets} Gidney N Cloyd Jun 2013 #69
Thanks! Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #70
Nevada is one huge Government bombing range happyslug Jun 2013 #73
I would prefer this regulation fall under Health and Humane services.... midnight Jun 2013 #78
We could create a Happiness Services Dept Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #101
I think that could work.... midnight Jun 2013 #113
Nice handle Fumesucker Jun 2013 #57
LOL! Spot on blueamy66 Jun 2013 #63
what makes you assume someone needs rehab because they are a prostitute? arely staircase Jun 2013 #67
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! backscatter712 Jun 2013 #120
So are you going to toss diesel bus engine manufacturers in jail too? marmar Jun 2013 #5
Bingo!!!!! orpupilofnature57 Jun 2013 #9
the diesel bus engine Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #11
How many moons are on your planet ? orpupilofnature57 Jun 2013 #13
all diesel engines Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #18
"All" is kinda the opposite of "case by case". Just sayin'. ret5hd Jun 2013 #27
ot, Niceguy1 Jun 2013 #31
What a coincidence! So are the legal prostitutes in Nevada! LadyHawkAZ Jun 2013 #80
The walking Pestles are rarely tested, or punished . orpupilofnature57 Jun 2013 #12
I think your priorities are slightly peculiar. sibelian Jun 2013 #21
indeed. nt xchrom Jun 2013 #23
prostitution happens anyway, it would be better for public health if it was regulated and legal. bowens43 Jun 2013 #30
Actually - it's more of a health risk being illegal. ehrnst Jun 2013 #34
Other 1st world countries do this. dotymed Jun 2013 #46
It would also be easier to catch those exploiting minors in to this business too... cascadiance Jun 2013 #65
Ah and the people hanging out in meet markets aren't? pipoman Jun 2013 #47
then promiscuity is the problem, not prostitution. unblock Jun 2013 #48
Ah yes, that strategy works so well in the War on Drugs. backscatter712 Jun 2013 #50
So you favor locking up anyone who's sexually promiscuous or geek tragedy Jun 2013 #55
So you just completely ignored the first paragraph of the post:? Hissyspit Jun 2013 #76
Public health would be served by regulating the trade, not criminalizing it. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2013 #77
god. people like you really make me vomity. nt La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2013 #114
A rare coalescing of common sense. Nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #3
taxes newmember Jun 2013 #7
It's easy orpupilofnature57 Jun 2013 #8
Generally it is a great way to generate cash revenue to supplement police income. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #10
What are you talking about? Police are paid for by TRAFFIC Tickets and taxes NOT other fines happyslug Jun 2013 #71
The vice squad in most cities has a long and sordid history of abject corruption. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #74
So most Vice Squads are "Captured Regulatory Agencies" what else is new? happyslug Jun 2013 #97
Huh? Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #104
If you understood REALITY is not legal technicalities you would understood what I said. happyslug Jun 2013 #105
Ok. Obviously our realities are fairly different. Warren Stupidity Jun 2013 #109
Look at the bigger picture. LadyHawkAZ Jun 2013 #83
But busting prositutes is NOT high on anyone's willingness to pay taxes for. happyslug Jun 2013 #93
You think not? LadyHawkAZ Jun 2013 #99
Or I just talk to actual POLICE OFFICERS about this. happyslug Jun 2013 #107
What city, please? And what streets? LadyHawkAZ Jun 2013 #112
as useless as the war on drugs. KG Jun 2013 #16
Pretty much. I would legalize both. Jennicut Jun 2013 #54
George Carlin asks a valid question... TommyCelt Jun 2013 #20
Why is blackmail illegal MattBaggins Jun 2013 #24
Selling is legal. Donating organs is legal. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #26
Seriously? You equate organ donation with having sex? LOL!!! bowens43 Jun 2013 #29
You equate what prostitutes endure on a daily geek tragedy Jun 2013 #33
Prostitution leads to drug addiction? Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2013 #36
Sucking the dicks of 25 low lives per day geek tragedy Jun 2013 #43
Your username is apt. sibelian Jun 2013 #49
And you know this....how? (nt) Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2013 #87
My wife works with women who have been trafficked. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #88
I can imagine a lot... Jeff In Milwaukee Jun 2013 #89
When you've had women sobbing in your office for hours, maybe then geek tragedy Jun 2013 #90
He's talking about trafficking LadyHawkAZ Jun 2013 #91
ONLY prostitution...? TommyCelt Jun 2013 #41
your claim that bad sex can lead to PTSD geek tragedy Jun 2013 #53
Credibility? TommyCelt Jun 2013 #56
It is completely insane to make it a crime to get paid for doing what it is legal to do for free... bowens43 Jun 2013 #28
Legalizig gambling caused a similar stir and now it's legal almost everywhere. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #59
"It is completely insane..." panader0 Jun 2013 #61
I'd say madokie Jun 2013 #32
It appears you are already full of truth, bother. MindPilot Jun 2013 #75
Because that would put the power and money in the hands of the 'sluts' ehrnst Jun 2013 #35
To keep them quiet ? eppur_se_muova Jun 2013 #37
Why?.,. Puritans.. Upton Jun 2013 #38
The problem is how do you regulate prositution? happyslug Jun 2013 #62
Several flaws in this jeff47 Jun 2013 #66
As I mentioned in an Earlier post, UK and Europe did not go crazy over freedom of Contract happyslug Jun 2013 #92
You went through a very long post to continue to ignore current reality. jeff47 Jun 2013 #100
I did address those points, you just did not like my responses happyslug Jun 2013 #106
No, you just like wandering off. jeff47 Jun 2013 #115
happyslug, thanks. Laelth Jun 2013 #118
I did simplify the history happyslug Jun 2013 #121
Bottom Line Scalded Nun Jun 2013 #39
You "guarantee" whatever you want to feel good about yourself. sibelian Jun 2013 #52
But if you hire an "actress" tomtharp Jun 2013 #40
There you go... Thor_MN Jun 2013 #44
This message was self-deleted by its author Inkfreak Jun 2013 #103
so society can continue to believe that it's morally self righteous. nt Javaman Jun 2013 #42
Because police don't want blow-offs from Johns Capt. Obvious Jun 2013 #51
Capt. Obvious once again demonstrates a firm grasp of the obvious Fumesucker Jun 2013 #58
We shouldn't ismnotwasm Jun 2013 #60
Why? sibelian Jun 2013 #68
To reduce the frequency of prostitution. geek tragedy Jun 2013 #94
There is no "exploitation" in a situation in which both parties consent. nt. sibelian Jun 2013 #116
Yeah, just ask the garment workers of Bangladesh, nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #117
Because that is the answer in certain feminist circles Major Nikon Jun 2013 #110
To perpetuate the idea that sex is weird and creepy and wrong, sibelian Jun 2013 #64
Yes, thank you. PDJane Jun 2013 #79
Also LadyHawkAZ Jun 2013 #81
Yes, that too. nt sibelian Jun 2013 #82
Most congressmen are prostitutes too. They fuck us for money. n/t L0oniX Jun 2013 #72
Agreed. Make it a fine if you want it outlawed LittleBlue Jun 2013 #84
To get them off the streets, obviously. Flying Squirrel Jun 2013 #85
I thought prostitution was a misdemeanor if not around schools or churches. craigmatic Jun 2013 #86
That's what I thought too LeftInTX Jun 2013 #98
so they can get some rest? yurbud Jun 2013 #95
so the prison guards won't have to drive so far after their shifts? yurbud Jun 2013 #96
It's not the question that should be asked Scootaloo Jun 2013 #102
A mix of being a nation of puritanical assholes, being a nation of greedy fucks who like TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #108
It wasn't always so! sfpcjock Jun 2013 #111
A frightfully bad idea. caseymoz Jun 2013 #119
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