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BlueCheese

(2,522 posts)
Thu Jun 6, 2013, 04:36 AM Jun 2013

What else do they want to know? When will it end? [View all]

The news that the NSA is collecting data about every phone call made through Verizon, and very likely every other carrier, while simultaneously ordering that its surveillance be kept secret, is simply outrageous. I have a hard time believing how angry I am about this. What I've always thought of as my birthright freedoms as an American appear to be gone, at least for now.

In a time of peace, under a Democratic president, the federal government has decided that it should know about every single phone call any American makes, domestic or international. It should know where you are when the call was made, who you talked to, and for how long. Who knows what else the government knows, given that it has imposed silence on those from which it demands the data. Does it know the location data provided by your phone even when you're not making calls? Does it know your web history from your ISPs? Your search history from the big search engines? Who you've emailed? The amounts and locations of your credit card transactions? And even if it doesn't know now, does the government think it has the power to get these things if it so chooses? Given this revelation, can anyone be truly confident the government doesn't already know all these things about you?

In the last several decade, we've learned that the government has decided it has the right to hold American citizens indefinitely without trial, to kill American citizens abroad without first charging them with a crime, and now to collect massive amounts of personal data about every American, the overwhelming majority of whom are not even suspected of being complicit in anything. Did the Stasi know as much about ordinary East Germans? Does the Chinese government know as much about its citizens?

With this news, I feel like we've lost something very real as Americans, and we will not get it back until this never-ending so-called war on terrorism is declared over, the AUMF is repealed, and Patriot Act eliminated. Every day until that happens is a day that we are not truly free.

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I think we are finally losing Tien1985 Jun 2013 #1
Disagree. graham4anything Jun 2013 #2
Graham, YOU are what is wrong with America. Atman Jun 2013 #3
and YOU are FREE to say that. So what freedom have you lost? NONE. graham4anything Jun 2013 #4
What do the Paul idiots, or Trayvon Martin have to with anything? Atman Jun 2013 #5
3000 of my fellow people died on 9-11. Manufactured? I don't believe in bogus conspiracy theories. graham4anything Jun 2013 #14
Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize they were YOUR people. EOTE Jun 2013 #21
I haven't lost any right. I still buy Charmin with aloe and pay for it with a credit card. graham4anything Jun 2013 #34
"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose" sibelian Jun 2013 #45
The songwriter has specifically stated what his meaning was. I agree with his own words graham4anything Jun 2013 #48
"they already know everything, therefore, it is nothing new" - plain falsehood sibelian Jun 2013 #50
No, that is SPECIFIC to what Kristofferson wrote the song about. SPECIFIC graham4anything Jun 2013 #51
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #52
Sure, that pesky little 4th amendment wasn't doing anything anyway. EOTE Jun 2013 #57
What right have you lost that you had 1, 2, 5, 10 years ago? nt graham4anything Jun 2013 #58
That's right, once a certain amount of time has passed, we should stop caring about lost rights. EOTE Jun 2013 #59
The reasonable right to privacy davekriss Jun 2013 #62
3000 < * 100:1 Paulie Jun 2013 #24
9,878 of your fellow people were senselessly killed in 2011 by magical thyme Jun 2013 #40
We have lost our right to privacy. dkf Jun 2013 #7
Precisely Sherman A1 Jun 2013 #37
Exactly Aerows Jun 2013 #38
Problem for most of us is treestar Jun 2013 #44
"Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?" Dreamer Tatum Jun 2013 #63
at the risk of overstatement: + a billion cali Jun 2013 #8
You can smell Graham's posts without even reading the byline. Atman Jun 2013 #13
I've said the exact same thing. EOTE Jun 2013 #10
sheeple Locrian Jun 2013 #12
he seems like someone wanting to mock obama supporters/dem party loyalists by behaving like the boilerbabe Jun 2013 #20
I called it back in January Fumesucker Jun 2013 #22
Then it's fairly shitty performance art. EOTE Jun 2013 #23
Fairly? Fumesucker Jun 2013 #25
I think he's genuine. sibelian Jun 2013 #46
Dr. Franklin also said Sherman A1 Jun 2013 #6
He was talking about doing ALL one can to protect the nation from terrorists and coup'd'etats graham4anything Jun 2013 #15
You can't protect ANYONE from terrorism. sibelian Jun 2013 #47
One could stop 100% of all gun crimes in the streets by individuals that aren't law enforcement. graham4anything Jun 2013 #49
Terrorism has nothing to do with gun crime. sibelian Jun 2013 #53
tell that to Dr. Tiller. and all the school shootings graham4anything Jun 2013 #54
I must disagree with your interpretation of Franklin's words Sherman A1 Jun 2013 #55
Then why did he say "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?" graham4anything Jun 2013 #56
You have stated it so eloquently.... Sherman A1 Jun 2013 #60
Ick. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #9
I cannot believe that this website would allow a libertarian such as yourself to host Earth_First Jun 2013 #11
This is AD HOMINEM and as you know I am NOT a fan of 3rd parties, Ron/Rand libertarians or JillStein graham4anything Jun 2013 #16
No, just their policies... n/t Earth_First Jun 2013 #17
No, that is NOT true. They are against the Obama adminstration. I am 100% FOR anything he does. graham4anything Jun 2013 #18
He's for deportation of the parents of minor US citizens Paulie Jun 2013 #28
Rand Paul will not get you what you want, niether will Michelle Bachmann or Jill Stein. graham4anything Jun 2013 #30
Don't change the subject. Paulie Jun 2013 #35
99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% graham4anything Jun 2013 #39
At least half your posts are nothing but pure Ad Hom Fumesucker Jun 2013 #26
It's nothing like an "AD HOMINEM". sibelian Jun 2013 #42
I can't believe there are people here who don't know you will support the President on anything. hughee99 Jun 2013 #61
These are positions you have to adopt in order to convince yourself that everything's OK. sibelian Jun 2013 #41
My not intellectual response 90-percent Jun 2013 #19
Yep zeemike Jun 2013 #31
FDR should have entered WW2 years early. It caused millions to die before he entered. graham4anything Jun 2013 #32
This is not a time of peace zeemike Jun 2013 #27
This thread is full of juvenile trash talk. You should all be ashamed of yourselves. randome Jun 2013 #29
We'll never get back the rights that are being taken from us...Obama is forestpath Jun 2013 #33
The slope is way more than slippery and the situation is way worse than Stasi. Smarmie Doofus Jun 2013 #36
Verizon to offer "Certified Patriot Plan". You are checked for security by government and... Safetykitten Jun 2013 #43
Omg I'm so gullible. i went and googled it darkangel218 Jun 2013 #64
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