General Discussion

Laelth

(32,017 posts)

67. It makes good sense to pay attention.

Thu Jun 6, 2013, 03:11 PM

Jun 2013

We may not now live in Nazi Germany, but what harm does it do to think about it? What harm does it do to consider the possibility, trace the progression, and pay attention as the rights of Americans slowly erode? Isn't paying attention a good idea? Isn't speaking out a good idea? Is that not what the founders intended? Is that not the purpose of the 1st Amendment?

I admire the President's loyal defenders. They generally mean well. I defend the President, myself, from time to time (not like he needs my help in any way), but the anger and vitriol being spewed by his defenders over this phone record collection database seems over-the-top to me. A very sensitive nerve has been struck.

-Laelth

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Quick! Take something that has happened continuously for 7 years and blame it on Obama on 6/6/13! [View all] FSogol Jun 2013 OP

"White House Defends NSA Collection of Phone Records" villager Jun 2013 #1

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #5

"White House Defends NSA Collection of Phone Records" AlbertCat Jun 2013 #58

It makes good sense to pay attention. Laelth Jun 2013 #67

Collecting all those numbers is so absurd as to be indefensible. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #118

There you go. Next week, it will be some other outrage. MineralMan Jun 2013 #2

If only the Administration quit giving reasons to be outraged. morningfog Jun 2013 #4

Ah. There you go, too. MineralMan Jun 2013 #12

Not surprised. None of the history makes it right, either. morningfog Jun 2013 #18

OK. I guess you'll need to start looking for MineralMan Jun 2013 #20

Or just raise awareness and accountability for the current president. morningfog Jun 2013 #23

OK. That's a good idea. There are many MineralMan Jun 2013 #25

If they don't they won't get my vote. Daemonaquila Jun 2013 #43

OK. MineralMan Jun 2013 #53

When our side pulls the same illegal crap as the other side AlbertCat Jun 2013 #60

You keep saying things like "illegal" and "warrantless". Can you elaborate, or are you too outraged? Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #128

In other words, we're fucked no matter what. Webster Green Jun 2013 #84

Not at all. If the only thing you care about is whether cell phone call MineralMan Jun 2013 #92

Civil rights are not usually "way down on the list" Maedhros Jun 2013 #99

you're not replying to a liberal.. frylock Jun 2013 #103

And a former freeper at that Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #145

izzat right? frylock Jun 2013 #146

Just do a Google search of the poster's name Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #148

Here's the thing: MineralMan Jun 2013 #107

I'm a security professional. Maedhros Jun 2013 #113

Good for you. MineralMan Jun 2013 #114

Legal Maedhros Jun 2013 #117

That is true, of course. MineralMan Jun 2013 #121

I'm backing Elizabeth Warren. Seriously. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #125

They are not wrong where the law allows it treestar Jun 2013 #120

Well, you've just enlightenment Jun 2013 #21

We bother with elections for many issues. MineralMan Jun 2013 #24

MM, enlightenment Jun 2013 #123

Good point. It's been going on for seven years Jack Rabbit Jun 2013 #56

I don't want it to continue. I expect it to. MineralMan Jun 2013 #59

Oh, really? That's the first hint you've given on this threat that you're not OK with it Jack Rabbit Jun 2013 #61

Pitchforks and torches, eh. MineralMan Jun 2013 #62

Lots have written theaocp Jun 2013 #72

Thanks, I will. MineralMan Jun 2013 #76

If it violates the Fourth Amendment, it can be challenged in court treestar Jun 2013 #122

Dennis fucking Kucinich, that's who frylock Jun 2013 #102

OK. He ran. Did he win even a single primary? MineralMan Jun 2013 #112

that wasn't the question you asked.. frylock Jun 2013 #124

No, I asked about a candidate who had a chance to win the election. MineralMan Jun 2013 #126

and i quote.. frylock Jun 2013 #129

There must be a schedule somewhere: FSogol Jun 2013 #7

Could be. Although there's always something. MineralMan Jun 2013 #14

You forgot 6.... krispos42 Jun 2013 #41

lol awesome. BASIC flashbacks!! n/t yodermon Jun 2013 #136

I have no idea what you're talking about... krispos42 Jun 2013 #137

An Early programming language called "BASIC" Dragonfli Jun 2013 #147

You forgot the "again." Then it would be a perfect Reagan quote! villager Jun 2013 #91

Clever. I didn't forget it, though. MineralMan Jun 2013 #93

Ah, you had it mind anyway! villager Jun 2013 #97

I didn't say that, now did I. MineralMan Jun 2013 #100

Well you can take comfort in that it was very Reagan-esque reply! villager Jun 2013 #108

The length of time does not excuse it. morningfog Jun 2013 #3

the investigating committees of the house are lining up...... spanone Jun 2013 #6

Er...like no jobs, shit wages, no access to healthcare, no EFCA? leftstreet Jun 2013 #8

1-20-09 to today is 4 1/2 of those 7 years. hobbit709 Jun 2013 #9

Greater than half, for those not versed in division. nt Dreamer Tatum Jun 2013 #82

Defending the indefensible. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #10

They don't care, they are fans Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #28

Sadly, you are correct pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #86

to say nobody complained about this until Obama is a LIE.nt boilerbabe Jun 2013 #32

Quick! Take something that has happened continuously for 7 years and exonerate Bush on 6/6/13! Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #11

Unlike Bush they have warrants for the metadata now. n/t FSogol Jun 2013 #15

Yes, because that's just what the American citizen deserves. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #16

I have no problem with law enforcement getting warrants to collect info. FSogol Jun 2013 #17

Our system works on "probable cause." Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #22

Wrong... TommyCelt Jun 2013 #78

A warrant needs to describe the places to be searched Bjorn Against Jun 2013 #26

So sorry you don't care about the constitution. Daemonaquila Jun 2013 #48

Continuity is no excuse for something he should have stopped Fearless Jun 2013 #13

We disidoro01 Jun 2013 #19

Just wondering. If you were GOP co. If you had nothing positive to offer...... wandy Jun 2013 #27

Clinton's WTO, NAFTA, MFN-China, H-1b visas were Bush Sr's idea markiv Jun 2013 #29

Nice try, but it's more like this: Proud Public Servant Jun 2013 #30

The only problem I EVER had with the Bush admin (on this) was the surveillance was "warrantless"... phleshdef Jun 2013 #31

My dog peed on the floor last week. Damn you, Obama! Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #33

Yup. Another outrage widget from the usual suspects...nt SidDithers Jun 2013 #34

And another "nothing to see here, move on" from the other usual suspects LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #50

He's the one Dragonfli Jun 2013 #64

Precisely. lpbk2713 Jun 2013 #35

I am so sick of these breaking (my word) stories of life long demo Jun 2013 #36

Amen. FSogol Jun 2013 #55

Best (or worst) one yet. Stumbled on this satire of 'It's all Obama's fault' yesterday: freshwest Jun 2013 #37

+++ Whisp Jun 2013 #45

+1 Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #47

I keep wondering laundry_queen Jun 2013 #38

many of obama's most ardent supporters weren't here during bush's reign of terror.. frylock Jun 2013 #119

And some of his detractors seem to forget the 8 years prior as well bhikkhu Jun 2013 #139

of course something that was started 7 years ago could be STOPPED nt msongs Jun 2013 #39

Oh, please. He's had 4.5 years to stop it and hasn't. Daemonaquila Jun 2013 #40

"Going Away"? Who cares? Were any laws broken? Why would he stop something that's legal? Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #54

I'll be waiting for your outrage theaocp Jun 2013 #79

This message was self-deleted by its author Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #101

I'm ever so glad he cancelled it. Oh....wait. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #42

Baaaaaaaaaah! Android3.14 Jun 2013 #44

Tides. krispos42 Jun 2013 #46

It's Obama's fault hip hop sucks based on republicans' logic. craigmatic Jun 2013 #49

Well, I've got this itch...(nt) KansDem Jun 2013 #51

It is possible to simultaneously NOT like that this is being done ... brett_jv Jun 2013 #52

That sums it up for me Proud Liberal Dem Jun 2013 #57

The policy was wrong under Bush and it's wrong under Obama. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #63

the buck stops... G_j Jun 2013 #65

Quick! Take something that was a horrible violation of our privacy JoeyT Jun 2013 #66

Did you agree with the policy when BushCo ran it? Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #68

It was wrong when BushCo did it because they were warrantless wiretaps. FSogol Jun 2013 #98

A warrant that covers everyone isn't really a warrant. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #111

So, they issued warrants to every individual who was spied on? Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #116

I only blame Obama for the 4 1/2 years he has been continuously doing it Dragonfli Jun 2013 #69

+1 pam4water Jun 2013 #77

Lies and the lying liars that tell them pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #96

But but but but-- he has a D after his name LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #109

+2 LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #106

Since 2001 sense Jun 2013 #70

Obama could have put a stop to it. AndyA Jun 2013 #71

+1 pam4water Jun 2013 #75

Oh balls.... TommyCelt Jun 2013 #73

What is the point of this thread? pam4water Jun 2013 #74

I'm not as thin as I was seven years ago. ZombieHorde Jun 2013 #80

We know, we know. It wasn't OK when Bush did it but IT'S OK WHEN OBAMA DOES IT. MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #81

+1 pam4water Jun 2013 #88

Wow pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #83

+1 pam4water Jun 2013 #87

I'm pretty sure Michelle Obama is listening in on my phone calls. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #85

And while you're at the Olive Garden, your pit bull is reporting to NSA! randome Jun 2013 #90

Well naturally ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #94

Breastfeeding and toilet training your child and eating fried chicken made with (banned word)... freshwest Jun 2013 #130

Apparently when it was wrong under Bush it's now ok under Obama... joeybee12 Jun 2013 #89

The point of electing Obama in 2008 was to end such abuses JVS Jun 2013 #95

unrec. Lame excuses for garbage policies. nt limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #104

Sorry, you thought I liked it before. Savannahmann Jun 2013 #105

LOL. You think calling me a Democrat is an insult? FSogol Jun 2013 #133

Quick! Pretend that no one notices that more than half of that time it was happening under Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #110

The DEMOCRATIC Police State comes with milk! woo me with science Jun 2013 #143

Here: ProSense Jun 2013 #115

Thanks for that synopsis. Tarheel_Dem Jun 2013 #127

Please repost as an OP. n/t FSogol Jun 2013 #131

We didn't elect a Democrat to CONTINUE Bush policies. WinkyDink Jun 2013 #132

Take it up with Congress. It became law in 2007. FSogol Jun 2013 #134

No reason for a misuse of the word "hysterical," either. WinkyDink Jun 2013 #135

I want to know what business it is of the government who and when I call someone? neverforget Jun 2013 #138

Frankly I find the invasion of privacy just voted on by the Supremes to be 100x worse ... brett_jv Jun 2013 #140

Yeah! Dive right in.. Be sure and give Cha Jun 2013 #141

I know! It's just like those priests molesting kids. woo me with science Jun 2013 #142

This is the best apologia you can do? woo me with science Jun 2013 #144