General Discussion

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)

192. Then ...

Reply to DisgustipatedinCA (Original post)

Thu Jun 6, 2013, 10:04 PM

Jun 2013

Okay ... Maybe I am part of the problem; but maybe someone can tell me ... without referencing some alex jones/infowars conspiracy theory, or that quaint Ben Franklin quote ... how the government having/seeing my phone records will affect my life?

Even if they use those records to trace who I have spoken with and for how long; even if they were to use those records to trace every website I have ever visited; even if they were to use that information to do everything preceding to everyone I have ever spoken with ... how will that affect my life? Or, if easier, how would that affect your life?

On the other hand, we DO know that surveillance of this nature has disrupted the plans of those intent on bring harm to us. And, we DO know what happens when we don't disrupt those plans.

So ... I guess my refusal to live in fear based on some abstract concept of "freedom" that, IMO, has not been impaired makes me part of some ill-defined problem. I'm good with that.

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If you're OK with revelations of NSA snooping, you're part of the problem [View all] DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 OP

k&r Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #1

"U.S. Intelligence Mining Data from Nine U.S. Internet Companies in Broad Secret Program" Hissyspit Jun 2013 #162

Sounds like Russia in 1955 warrant46 Jun 2013 #168

The only thing they will find in my records HipChick Jun 2013 #2

That's probably because they are actively monitoring it. TalkingDog Jun 2013 #7

That's why I don't use it much...I hear way too many clicks on the line HipChick Jun 2013 #10

There is a difference in phone records of calls and actually monitoring the calls. Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #156

Is there really? The vast majority of calls are not monitored by humans, but they are retained and leveymg Jun 2013 #249

Phone call records are just what it says, a list of phone call from a calling party to a called Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #277

The NSA collects all sorts of data, from credit records to email to telephone calls. leveymg Jun 2013 #278

Are you saying when the NSA receives the call records it also gets the voice content Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #282

NSA installed signal splitter equipment at telco hubs and ISPs that allows it to tap into those leveymg Jun 2013 #284

Monitoring of calls is wire tapping, this s different from obtaining records of calls. Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #285

NSA does both and a lot more. It operates many programs. PRISM is just one of them. leveymg Jun 2013 #289

Yes NSA does more but on the phone records they are simply a record of calls and length. Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #294

If they go after Comcast treestar Jun 2013 #169

you will have to be gentle with them. I am sure they are still suffering boilerbabe Jun 2013 #3

^^this^^ Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #4

Nailed it. LOL. morningfog Jun 2013 #51

yep. nt Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #129

Speak It, Tell It!! LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #155

Too many people think they need protecting from evil forces. So are OK with this shit! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #5

...and when the evil force is our own government we won't be able to make corrections to it. L0oniX Jun 2013 #151

+1000 n-t Logical Jun 2013 #281

K&R! n/t whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #6

I haven't seen this yet on DU, Seeking Serenity Jun 2013 #8

The lack of logic of worrying about standing up for what is right because 'it might give some sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #20

Agreed. This is a massive over-reach by the NSA and should be protested SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #28

The retention and minimization rules are by Presidential Order, not agency rules. Overreach is by leveymg Jun 2013 #81

Agreed, but agency rules also restrict the collection and holding of data to non-us entities. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #97

My understanding is that the Retention Act is ignored and that the current Presidential Order leveymg Jun 2013 #239

Here's the problem. The IRS has rules and regulations concerning the disclosure SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #242

I agree. That's one of the inherent dangers of the NSA and other agencies collecting data. leveymg Jun 2013 #250

Wasn't everyone warned about that very thing when it came into being? Hestia Jun 2013 #193

Good points, and true. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #196

Bingo. nt laundry_queen Jun 2013 #33

Double Bingo. nt clarice Jun 2013 #110

+1000... awoke_in_2003 Jun 2013 #104

Huh? Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #189

Hello... awoke_in_2003 Jun 2013 #198

Better to avoid being too deep.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #199

+1 leftstreet Jun 2013 #108

There is enough disappointment to go around but I am disappointed in our judicial system rhett o rick Jun 2013 #143

Thank you. nt woo me with science Jun 2013 #173

I think this is traffic analysis. Content of the calls is not collected. I don't think alfredo Jun 2013 #79

Here's how NSA works, and has worked, since at least 2006: leveymg Jun 2013 #84

Bush didn't go through the FISA court, Obama did. Of course we need to know the leanings of the alfredo Jun 2013 #102

That is correct, Bush did not go through the FISA court which was exposed if you remember and became sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #117

I would like to see Obama surrender many of the new powers granted to Bush. They were using alfredo Jun 2013 #123

THIS IS GREAT ^^^^^ LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #157

+1000 .. thx for this! \n Phillip McCleod Jun 2013 #120

The problem with the collection and storage of this data is that it allows the NSA to develop a SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #100

We are not as fear ridden as we were under Bush, that is why there is pushback. Obama isn't alfredo Jun 2013 #111

I heard earlier today that this has been occurring for at least seven years. With the SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #113

At least Obama complies with the FISA law. Can we trust the FISA court? I hope so. Repeal alfredo Jun 2013 #116

Bingo! Maedhros Jun 2013 #144

Yes, the thought is scary, but quite plausible. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #175

Really do tell how they could differenciate........ Historic NY Jun 2013 #230

Find sand, insert head LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #112

This guy thinks otherwise. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #131

it only took a few hours for this to be proven utter BS nashville_brook Jun 2013 #197

Incredible OP. Thanks. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #9

IOKIYAD? Iggo Jun 2013 #11

Disgustingly, it does seem so lately. nt Mnemosyne Jun 2013 #42

+10000000 nashville_brook Jun 2013 #238

Congress is required to review all FISA requests. randome Jun 2013 #12

Congressional oversight by leadership plus chair and ranking member of the intelligence committees FarCenter Jun 2013 #16

Thanks for that bit of research! randome Jun 2013 #41

They, including Obama when he was a Senator, voted for the FISA Bill, which RETROACTIVELY sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #47

This message was self-deleted by its author guyton Jun 2013 #105

Yes, Republicans are complicit too DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #48

I think you are right. Congess would have already been briefed in the appropriate SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #114

This. WilliamPitt Jun 2013 #13

If you don't acknowledge that Congress as well as the administration is part of the problem cali Jun 2013 #14

I do acknowledge that Congress is a part of the problem DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #39

And you are including the administration in your concern? rpannier Jun 2013 #227

Um...did you happen to catch the OP? DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #253

It's funny that it was shown that the Bush administration shouldn't have needed expanded powers to brewens Jun 2013 #15

You got that right! randome Jun 2013 #21

This is a travesty.... BrainDrain Jun 2013 #17

Madly collecting our private information while prosecuting JEB Jun 2013 #18

Exactly. I guess the 'little people have nothing to worry about if they are doing nothing wrong'. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #22

Don't forget to use these words.... JEB Jun 2013 #30

Time to write a web-bot that will randomly use these words in political forums. PrestonLocke Jun 2013 #66

wouldn't terrorists use code words arely staircase Jun 2013 #72

... leftstreet Jun 2013 #109

Very well put, JEB! Th1onein Jun 2013 #195

K&R....well expressed. zeemike Jun 2013 #19

You missed one. Robb Jun 2013 #23

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #34

"Government, on some level, at least believes it has my best interests at heart" ohheckyeah Jun 2013 #216

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #24

Welcome to DU my friend! hrmjustin Jun 2013 #35

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #94

Pardon? hrmjustin Jun 2013 #96

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #119

Agreed. nt DLevine Jun 2013 #25

this is the sort of thing they used to scare us about the Soviets when I was a kid.... mike_c Jun 2013 #26

yep. . . . . n/t annabanana Jun 2013 #38

Yep. Thats what made communism so terrible and the USA so great. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #43

The fall of the USSR may have been one of the worst things to happen to the U.S. Xithras Jun 2013 #46

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, Art_from_Ark Jun 2013 #212

Chilling isn't it? I was thinking the same thing recently. But should we be surprised really? Human sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #232

"Can you hear me now?" GeorgeGist Jun 2013 #27

Perfect RVN VET Jun 2013 #180

K&R. nt OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #29

righteous rant think Jun 2013 #31

I'm not OK with it Gore1FL Jun 2013 #32

I feel the same way DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #49

Everything you say is true, now WTF are you gonna do about it? tularetom Jun 2013 #36

So in your view, once I voted for Obama, I need to shut up and take my lumps? DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #67

Obama is just the tip of the iceberg tularetom Jun 2013 #83

If you think tapping and storing phone data just started under Obama you are naive and childish. Pisces Jun 2013 #37

where on earth did this come from? DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #44

I did not meant to attack you directly, my post is a generality. These things are not new. Pisces Jun 2013 #103

If you were here in 2002 Pholus Jun 2013 #57

K&R idwiyo Jun 2013 #40

Sorry, the spinning is that this technique was somehow invented by Obama. peace13 Jun 2013 #45

There may be spin that this was "invented by Obama", but it's not coming from me DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #53

+1 840high Jun 2013 #191

Oh, that was priceless. woo me with science Jun 2013 #78

The fan club feels threatened Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #88

The abilty to remember more than four years back is handy! peace13 Jun 2013 #134

how far will the redirection go? nebenaube Jun 2013 #255

THANK YOU. This post should go to the top of the Greatest Page. woo me with science Jun 2013 #50

Naive think_critically Jun 2013 #52

The outrage is not unwarranted, but I should spare you the outrage? DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #56

agreed but here's the problem think_critically Jun 2013 #61

Blame me and yourself if that's what makes you tick DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #71

Verizon is being required to hand over the data on a daily basis. BlueCheese Jun 2013 #184

If your just now getting upset you have been uninformed for a decade! jbond56 Jun 2013 #54

Do you suppose this story is actually breaking for a reason? DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #59

my point is it was proven in 2004 and confirmed again in 2007. jbond56 Jun 2013 #65

perhaps it's being broken now to render it bipartisan MisterP Jun 2013 #132

The NSA was snooping in Verizon traffic? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #55

I just don't like our whole total loss of privacy. leftyladyfrommo Jun 2013 #58

KRB 64 Octafish Jun 2013 #60

It is wrong on both sides of the fence. However, Congress DID allow this, and it included Democrats still_one Jun 2013 #62

Maybe this will light a fire under Congress to do something about it. GoCubsGo Jun 2013 #77

Not unless we get more progressives in it won't happen I am afraid still_one Jun 2013 #122

k&r n/t RainDog Jun 2013 #63

Not okay with it Marrah_G Jun 2013 #64

Congress will only react to the people nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #68

A-FUCKIN'-MEN!!! Hell Hath No Fury Jun 2013 #69

k to the r frylock Jun 2013 #70

Can you even imagine the shitstorm if it turned out the Obama administration had STOPPED doing this? mn9driver Jun 2013 #73

So what are we going do about it? siligut Jun 2013 #74

Giving Obama pass after pass tblue Jun 2013 #75

I'm not comfortable with the NSA spying in the US. I'm not comfortable with alfredo Jun 2013 #76

I would also be more upset to find they were getting the content DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #80

You dont need a warrant for content. jbond56 Jun 2013 #85

Not all NSA geeks are sociopaths. If that is happening, it will leak out. alfredo Jun 2013 #115

You can believe they aren't intercepting content. Savannahmann Jun 2013 #86

exactly jbond56 Jun 2013 #91

A fundamental problem is our government's INTENTIONAL view that 4th amendment doesn't apply... cascadiance Jun 2013 #82

Really good material, and I agree. Thank you for the post. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #87

+ 1,000 suffragette Jun 2013 #214

Just wait until ProSense sees this hootinholler Jun 2013 #89

Snort DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #90

She's furiously getting her bolded quotes lined up LondonReign2 Jun 2013 #118

Makes me thankful for my IL... chervilant Jun 2013 #233

I really hate it michigandem58 Jun 2013 #164

Or when someone injects pure panic when facts would be better. Damn them. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #185

Could you explain that comment? What do you mean by 'uninformed panic'? sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #220

The OP and other hair-on-fire types michigandem58 Jun 2013 #260

So we now live in a country where the Death Penalty is administered without charges, without sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #264

Test me, Michigan. I'm ready DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #266

The points are in the post you replied to! michigandem58 Jun 2013 #269

In that case, we've just established that your post is bunk DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #270

Suuuuure michigandem58 Jun 2013 #271

I'm not here to satisfy your whims. I told you I was apprised of all you mentioned DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #272

Here, in question form for you michigandem58 Jun 2013 #273

Answers DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #274

I'm sorry michigandem58 Jun 2013 #275

You're done. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #276

Next time OWS or something like it happens, Dustlawyer Jun 2013 #92

It may have already happened Maedhros Jun 2013 #145

I am sure it did. OWS fought them off guard so they have taken steps to make sure it doesn't Dustlawyer Jun 2013 #263

It was used on the Philly campus. nebenaube Jun 2013 #258

Some "liberals" are as dumb as conservatives fjlovato Jun 2013 #93

I'll let someone else waste time with you DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #95

You might want to read this nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #138

Unfortunately Maedhros Jun 2013 #146

If you think this just about 'billing' and not content, you're just kidding yourself. KG Jun 2013 #98

I don't harbor that particular delusion DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #101

my post was meant as an addendum to yours. not a statement directed at you. KG Jun 2013 #121

No apology is necessary at all DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #124

perspective? klebean Jun 2013 #99

I am definitely not OK with NSA snooping, but existentialist Jun 2013 #106

HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #107

excellent post locks Jun 2013 #125

And we wonder why the 1% keep growing richer? Duer 157099 Jun 2013 #126

What's really scary is all 3 branches of government including both parties are okay with it. dkf Jun 2013 #127

How about skepticscott Jun 2013 #128

BHO is culpable blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #130

The "Father Knows Best" wing of the party thinks it's just peachy. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #133

They're "phoning in" the notion this makes even 1% safer Blue Owl Jun 2013 #135

An excellent post...! KoKo Jun 2013 #136

Attention: Democrats currently in office el scorcho Jun 2013 #137

If you think this is a revelation, you've also got a problem frazzled Jun 2013 #139

There is a reason it's making headlines. It will come to you soon. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #140

Everyone who was yelling about sheeple under Bush now have become sheeple :( pam4water Jun 2013 #141

Well... Not Everybody... But Your Point Is Well Taken... WillyT Jun 2013 #142

Keep this on top. woo me with science Jun 2013 #147

What do you mean?? We are safe now & Michelle Obama is a very snappy dresser, so STOP SAYING THAT!!! Kurovski Jun 2013 #148

Michelle Obama does way more than dress "snappy".. Ring Cha Jun 2013 #158

Tell it to CNN. Kurovski Jun 2013 #160

I don't watch fucking cnn. Cha Jun 2013 #163

I don't give a fuck what media you fucking consume, that's not the goddamned point. Kurovski Jun 2013 #171

I don't consume any fucking media and I see no pretending of anything. Cha Jun 2013 #172

Actually, in my opinon, you *should* consume media. We should watch *all* SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #176

Except you can't really do that on MSNBC. stillwaiting Jun 2013 #235

You could also include Current TV (if you get it). Bill Press in the morning is very SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #236

Fuckin A. "Natural allies" my ass. You support this you are the fucking enemy TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #149

+1000 limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #152

Yep. K&R closeupready Jun 2013 #150

The US is ripe for a dictatorship and if it should happen we won't be able to do anything about it. L0oniX Jun 2013 #153

Charles and David Koch are pretty much dictators. Initech Jun 2013 #202

OMG!!! I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE this post!!! LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #154

Well then, I'm happy to be "Part of the Problem". :) ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2013 #159

"Conservative" Hissyspit Jun 2013 #161

Ah, of course. Mindless tribalism. ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2013 #174

"Mindless tribalism" Hissyspit Jun 2013 #183

Not that old talking point again 'the reality based community'. It was invented to slam Liberals sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #222

"Proud Member of the Reality Based Community" is a democratic slam against Karl Rove ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2013 #267

Which is why it was so reprehensible for so-called Democrats, to use it to slam Democrats with. If sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #268

The reality based community was NOT invented to slam liberals, as you stated ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2013 #280

It definitely is not effective as a slam against 'real democrats' at least you are right about that. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #283

Back to the tribalism, I see... ConservativeDemocrat Jun 2013 #293

What's funny is that the mega corporations are suddenly OK now treestar Jun 2013 #170

Bravo Jonzey50 Jun 2013 #252

just another brick... nebenaube Jun 2013 #259

Until the Patriot Act is overturned, I can't complain. Until then, it's the law. SleeplessinSoCal Jun 2013 #165

TIA...it is real and online. Rex Jun 2013 #166

Why? treestar Jun 2013 #167

I've never considered my emails or voice communication truly private Red Mountain Jun 2013 #177

This is what is called a "limited hangout" many a good man Jun 2013 #178

What would a full hangout tell us? leveymg Jun 2013 #241

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear! DirkGently Jun 2013 #179

Emphasis placed on *supposed to be*. (nt) SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #186

recommendation #180! quinnox Jun 2013 #181

If you pop a Pez everytime the noise machine yanks your chain ucrdem Jun 2013 #182

You mean Amy Goodman, Thom Hartmann, Glenn Greenwald, The Nation, who were the other 'pack rats' sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #219

"... you're part of a different problem...." MrMickeysMom Jun 2013 #229

K&R forestpath Jun 2013 #187

I conclude that during presidential or other campaigns, the incumbent JDPriestly Jun 2013 #188

k/r 840high Jun 2013 #190

Then ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #192

NSA has direct server access to your email, photos, file transfers, live chat, search history... nashville_brook Jun 2013 #194

That's not what the subpoena says. At all. n/t ucrdem Jun 2013 #200

you are way behind on the news. time to catch up. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #237

I'm not out-raged; but ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #287

And the NSA is not the only organization that can access this info panader0 Jun 2013 #209

That's just according to the OP.. that Cha Jun 2013 #211

The morons who say "Oh I don't have anything to hide" are clearly lying. Initech Jun 2013 #201

Not just yes, but fuck yes. 99Forever Jun 2013 #203

Really...? deathrind Jun 2013 #204

Why is this even news? Generic Brad Jun 2013 #205

Glad To See Someone Else Smelling A Rat DallasNE Jun 2013 #208

What Did Jim DeMint Recently Advise To Repubicans DallasNE Jun 2013 #206

We hand wrung then. JoeyT Jun 2013 #215

Define Who "Our Guy" Is DallasNE Jun 2013 #221

I'm good with a broadside attack against the Patriot Act. JoeyT Jun 2013 #223

Nothing New WovenGems Jun 2013 #207

Repeal the AUMF and the Patriot Act Timbuk3 Jun 2013 #210

What Do You Think the NSA Does? This is just another from the SCANDAL machine. CdnExtraNational Jun 2013 #213

I think a lot of people didn't understand what the NSA does, and simply trusted that they weren't leveymg Jun 2013 #240

The people trying to spin this really need to coordinate better. JoeyT Jun 2013 #217

I'm outraged, regardless of any political party involved. Apophis Jun 2013 #218

Keep it on top. woo me with science Jun 2013 #224

Of course.... DeSwiss Jun 2013 #225

Like your pic rpannier Jun 2013 #226

Wow. Spot-on graphic. woo me with science Jun 2013 #228

When dealing with potentially dangerous powers, trust but verify. leveymg Jun 2013 #246

Kick and Yup! Agschmid Jun 2013 #231

The bleating of the Sheeple... chervilant Jun 2013 #234

Kick Scuba Jun 2013 #243

Bingo Aerows Jun 2013 #244

can't blame Congress? You're definitely part of the problem. bigtree Jun 2013 #245

"protesting against a lame duck president" is not my point. You may swim in those circles. I don't. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #256

so, anyone who disagrees with your drivel agrees with the NSA snooping? Are you an imbecile? bigtree Jun 2013 #261

Maybe I am an imbecile, thanks for bringing up the possibility. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #265

Bingo! blackspade Jun 2013 #247

Cyberspace is a threat. Jonzey50 Jun 2013 #248

I'm not fear-driven to that extent. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #262

We must remove any trace of conservative ideology from the party Thenewire Jun 2013 #251

Welcome to DU my friend! hrmjustin Jun 2013 #257

Absolutely. nt Zorra Jun 2013 #254

What if Obama was the leaker? Zen Democrat Jun 2013 #279

Kick !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #286

If a tiny fraction of overreacting babies think you're the problem.. gulliver Jun 2013 #288

If you think NSA spying is a good thing DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #290

Great comment, nothing to add just wanted to let you know those who are willing to tolerate the sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #292

Not suprprised or upset quaker bill Jun 2013 #291