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DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)

103. We aren't going to agree, but I do appreciate your replying

Fri Jun 7, 2013, 07:51 PM

Jun 2013

I'm not looking at this from a political angle, and that's by design. This goes straight past issues of left and right, and I'm not even bothering to read what Republicans are saying about it, because that doesn't matter at all. If your rejoinder to that statement is going to be something about losing in the mid-terms if we attack our own, etc, my reply would be that the die is already cast. Obama spied on American citizens by the millions, and continues to do so. He's already earned whatever political fallout he's going to receive by running this program in the first place. I'm very aware that the GOP will make as much hay of this as they can, while I'm simultaneously aware that they're complicit, and would not want to see this investigated very deeply, lest their own sins be revealed. But I don't care. This, unlike the vast majority of national issues is bedrock material. You stand at the barricades on this one, no matter who your opponent is, or you don't stand for anything.

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If this happened under George Bush, you would be outraged. Be outraged by Barack Obama too! [View all] LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 OP

lets ask congress why they voted this crap through constantly. Sunlei Jun 2013 #1

It started with Bush, the President is doing everything he can to try and spotlight the issue xtraxritical Jun 2013 #41

Oh my WORD. woo me with science Jun 2013 #56

Come on, Woo Aerows Jun 2013 #79

Yes! Every long, long road to a free, truly democratic society woo me with science Jun 2013 #92

I always thought Aerows Jun 2013 #95

He said this quite plainly in a speech about a week or two ago. Try and keep up snarky. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #90

BWAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!! woo me with science Jun 2013 #91

Read this ad hominem snark people... xtraxritical Jun 2013 #116

I belieeeeeeeve! woo me with science Jun 2013 #117

STOP IT WOO Skittles Jun 2013 #100

I hear you can replace an earworm with woo me with science Jun 2013 #120

Do you really believe what you typed? DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #94

I just waste my time with you but here... xtraxritical Jun 2013 #102

We aren't going to agree, but I do appreciate your replying DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #103

I just want to say... woo me with science Jun 2013 #111

People, you've had since 2005 to make a stink about this, are you all trolls here? xtraxritical Jun 2013 #113

So roll over and pee on yourself if that's your style DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #114

This ABSURD argument again? woo me with science Jun 2013 #119

Wow. Marr Jun 2013 #98

It's interesting to note LWolf Jun 2013 #97

IMO it's about data retention. jeff47 Jun 2013 #2

So you are basically saying that the government will take care of us, so go with the flow. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #15

This is false, Im more upset people have gotten past the outrage they SHOULDVE expressed at the time uponit7771 Jun 2013 #3

What's false? LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #4

What would that have done about this? Union Scribe Jun 2013 #7

THIS^^^^^^^ LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #10

What makes you think that Pres Obama isnt getting what he wants with rhett o rick Jun 2013 #67

Congress voted for it under Bush. Get a more PROGRESSIVE CONGRESS. CakeGrrl Jun 2013 #5

Have you ever heard of an Executive Order? LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #8

The senate must be RID of DiFi.....get it now? SugarShack Jun 2013 #6

Umm no.... LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #9

Um, it was started in 2006 when Bush was President. randome Jun 2013 #11

Are you serious? LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #12

A judge is required to approve it. Congressional review and approval every 90 days is required. randome Jun 2013 #13

You can continue the spin.... LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #16

It's not spin. I genuinely don't care if Verizon keeps records of when I use my phone. randome Jun 2013 #18

It's Spin! LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #22

Ok but when Pres. Jeb Bush can snoop on tblue Jun 2013 #60

If there is a legal warrant and a sufficient review process...yeah. randome Jun 2013 #70

Your attempts at rationalization are pathetic. Regardless of how many "approve" this, it rhett o rick Jun 2013 #19

Is it rationalization or is it accuracy? The fourth amendment requires a warrant. Admin is getting stevenleser Jun 2013 #23

Ah yes, it feels so much better if we are screwed "legally". rhett o rick Jun 2013 #25

I'm sorry the Constitution frustrates you so. Isn't the remedy that you propose an amendment? stevenleser Jun 2013 #33

The Constitution? We left that a long time ago. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #42

Well, since you admit you hate the Constitution and prefer dictatorship, I can't help you. stevenleser Jun 2013 #45

Which is why organizations like the ACLU exist.... LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #26

See below, FISA has already been found legal at the Court of Appeals level. We'll see. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #31

What the heck are you talking about.... LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #36

I linked below to an actual decision by the Court of appeals for the second circuit. stevenleser Jun 2013 #37

How do you know the document is accurate in all respects and not altered? pnwmom Jun 2013 #104

Not that I appreciate being tracked, but I thought it was Bush side stepping FISA? Blue State Bandit Jun 2013 #14

The fact that Bush was worse doesnt lessen the violation of our freedoms this President rhett o rick Jun 2013 #20

And I'm sure the "leaker" is happy you feel that way. Blue State Bandit Jun 2013 #28

Authoritarianism is very attractive to some. Big Brother will take care of you. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #44

But you hate the Constitution and prefer dictatorship anyway, so you should be fine with wiretapping stevenleser Jun 2013 #49

I'm not turning on anyone here, but with all the "isms" being thrown around... Blue State Bandit Jun 2013 #55

Koch Brothers are a problem.... LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #17

Koch Bros are WAY more of a problem than collecting metadata. Trust me. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #50

No, it was considerably worse under Bush. This is definitely incrementally better. stevenleser Jun 2013 #21

It's not illegal or Constitutional? LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #24

FISA has already been found constitutional at the US court of appeals for 2nd Circuit stevenleser Jun 2013 #29

Nice but I'll take my legal opinions LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #38

The ACLU will likely be arguing first before a court of appeals... Like the 2nd Circuit. The SCOTUS stevenleser Jun 2013 #40

Personally, I don't give a FLIP FLYING FLIP LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #43

Your tantrum aside, the decision is searchable by anyone on DU. If you want to discredit yourself stevenleser Jun 2013 #46

Are you blind, deaf and ..... LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #52

And I found another case, US v Nicholson, this time the fourth circuit ruled in favor of FISA stevenleser Jun 2013 #53

P.S., the decision is United States v. Duggan, 743 F.2d 59 (2nd Cir. 1984) nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #47

Are you aware of the NDAA section 1021, HR347, etc.? Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #30

You're right about the not illegal part, constitutional is more subjective Hippo_Tron Jun 2013 #32

See my above regarding the challenge at the 2nd circuit, but also note this part of the decision... stevenleser Jun 2013 #34

Exactly: It is intolerable regardless of who holds office. n/t Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #27

Father of Patriot Act Aghast that Americans are Being Spied On. Blue State Bandit Jun 2013 #35

^^^^ Exactly!! LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #39

I dont think you understand that person's post. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #48

Rational Common-Sense Thinkers want their membership card back please. Blue State Bandit Jun 2013 #58

Look at the evidence with that person... stevenleser Jun 2013 #61

I think your "blind sheep" are just "follower authoritarians". rhett o rick Jun 2013 #63

You're really desperate to push that meme, aren't you? Problem is, no one fits that description. stevenleser Jun 2013 #65

OK, let's look at the facts. Our government has used warrant-less wiretaps. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #72

Not 'now', I have been saying it would be incrementally better for six years. stevenleser Jun 2013 #75

Are you saying the data collection discussed in the OP is under the FISA laws? rhett o rick Jun 2013 #80

Yes, a FISA warrant was issued to collect this data. Greenwald's article says that outright stevenleser Jun 2013 #82

I am confused. I was aware of what Greenwald said. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #89

If you view it in a vacuum, perhaps... stevenleser Jun 2013 #96

NEWSFLASH SHRED Jun 2013 #51

You just don't understand 11-Dimensional Rope-a-Dope!! blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #54

I'm so ready to get to the jobs bill that I can't stand it. This is just SleeplessinSoCal Jun 2013 #57

Amen. Blue State Bandit Jun 2013 #59

and all those jobs will go to 'guest workers' brought in with the immigration bill markiv Jun 2013 #74

If you think Benghazi investigation is bad Politicalboi Jun 2013 #62

How is it not worse that Boston happened despite scrapping the fourth? TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #121

As I understand it, FISA was intended to allow the Govment to spy on citizens rhett o rick Jun 2013 #64

Creeping Fascism per Naomi Wolf rhett o rick Jun 2013 #66

And some of us here are driving the wagons that complete the circle Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #68

Bob Altemeyer calls it authoritarian behavior. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #76

I guarantee you. kentuck Jun 2013 #69

Nope. Same opinion in 2007 as now. stevenleser Jun 2013 #73

Obama is good, Bush is bad I trust Obama markiv Jun 2013 #71

I'm just surprised that some of you think it hasn't been happening since 2002. "IF" it was Bush???? blm Jun 2013 #77

I'm truly flabbergasted at how many DU'ers are ok with this premium Jun 2013 #78

Name a DUer who is 'OK' with this. I don't know of any. stevenleser Jun 2013 #83

You, for one. premium Jun 2013 #85

In virtually every post I have said I don't like it and am not a fan of FISA stevenleser Jun 2013 #86

Fair enough. premium Jun 2013 #87

Well, how much are we talking about Congress cutting food stamps? jeff47 Jun 2013 #105

It appears that you are labeling anyone who disagrees with your premise as LanternWaste Jun 2013 #81

Obama is just another scumbag criminal. Daniel537 Jun 2013 #84

Many Were Outraged when BushCo fredamae Jun 2013 #88

How can you look around this site and not think people are outraged? BainsBane Jun 2013 #93

Im as outraged about it now LostOne4Ever Jun 2013 #99

Let's call out John Boehner and demand a yes or no vote on muntrv Jun 2013 #101

WOW Thanks for all the Recs! LovingA2andMI Jun 2013 #106

I know some people are upset hamster Jun 2013 #107

... Agschmid Jun 2013 #109

k/r 840high Jun 2013 #108

It did happen under Bush arely staircase Jun 2013 #110

It did happen under Bush, and you are correct, we WERE outraged. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #112

"They feel vindicated now." KoKo Jun 2013 #115

What do you mean "IF" this happened under Bush. This DID happen under Bush. shcrane71 Jun 2013 #118