General Discussion

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)

22. Yes they are a minority, but even that few who claim to be democrats, and I do not doubt it, is far

Reply to usGovOwesUs3Trillion (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 7, 2013, 11:53 PM

Jun 2013

too many. Because of them, same thing on the other side, who will support anything their team does, we are in the situation we are in.

Now we will have to start working as hard as we worked to get Democrats back in power, this President, to get some non-Third Wayers elected in their place. Congress is where the power is, that is where we need to focus our efforts, Too much time is spent on the WH when the power of the people is in Congress. Not THIS Congress, but one that understands why they are there.

It's no impossible to get rid of the rotten apples in Congress, we did it before.

Once we have a strong Progressive Democratic Congress we can begin the process of dismantling this 'Security State'. We are behind by a number of years now, we thought we were going to begin the process back in 2008, so we have to start all over again and we need to start now.

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Obama's "Spy on Everyone" policy was already public? My *ass*, it was. [View all] MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 OP

The drone program was also supposedly a secret. nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #1

The CIA has been doing assignations for years. Read the pentagon papers still_one Jun 2013 #3

Yes sir, the CIA's a hot date alright! xtraxritical Jun 2013 #120

A secret from whom? Certainly not the family and associates of those murdered. byeya Jun 2013 #72

a vocal MINORITY on here used to argue it was technically imposible, but since yesterday they have usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #2

I don't know I see it as a pretty even split on du still_one Jun 2013 #5

actually, I should have said some, as they really are just a vocal MINORITY here. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #12

My point really was blanket statements are not necessary good. still_one Jun 2013 #16

Just like blanket spying, right? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #17

Yes they are a minority, but even that few who claim to be democrats, and I do not doubt it, is far sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #22

Yep, they always make those points and they are *always* there. Marr Jun 2013 #83

Isn't it wonderful when peoples hobbies and profession line up. SolutionisSolidarity Jun 2013 #174

And some are so Pro Obama it just doesn't make Sense. n/t A Simple Game Jun 2013 #183

It was G.W. Bush and that Congress that gave us this FISA act and xtraxritical Jun 2013 #121

AND THEY'RE THE SAME FUCKING DUERS DOING IT AS WERE SAYING THAT Occulus Jun 2013 #6

+1000000 woo me with science Jun 2013 #11

yes, you are absolutely correct, and you are also right to voice it at the type of your lungs usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #23

And they think no one notices. Ignore them from now on. We have work to do and we need to start sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #25

Right you are. There are some here well practiced in the art of self delusion. byeya Jun 2013 #59

+1, yep-- it's sickening. Marr Jun 2013 #84

+1 Zorra Jun 2013 #140

And they ALL seem to get the same Talking Points at the same time. bvar22 Jun 2013 #143

Preternatural flexibility is a characteristic of pom pom wavers Fumesucker Jun 2013 #14

lol. they are unbelievable. boilerbabe Jun 2013 #18

Yes, I have noticed the sharply different approach MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #24

You're confused Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #4

Frontline did a two hour special on the specifics of how they do the "vacuum" years ago. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #126

No, you're confused pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #163

Correction. cstanleytech Jun 2013 #173

When did Obama specifically say he would end the NSA collection of phone records? Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #177

You mean the government no longer serves YOU. randome Jun 2013 #7

I'm mad because *something specific* was kept secret MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #10

Phone record metadata is blase, IMO. randome Jun 2013 #13

This means that the NSA of a sitting president can obtain JDPriestly Jun 2013 #35

There is a process set up for all of this. randome Jun 2013 #53

It's not, and it's much too intrusive at this point. If the NSA had a specific foreign SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #159

I'm okay with them shutting the whole thing down, too. randome Jun 2013 #160

Agreed. I think it's well past time to look at everything in the Patriot Act and SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #162

You don't blame President Obama for using the tools at his disposal? What if you called A Simple Game Jun 2013 #184

And, who sees this information? Not just a Govt. Controlled agency KoKo Jun 2013 #75

The fact that you limit the scope of your comments to meta data is very telling to me. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #107

The PRISM data SUPPOSEDLY targets foreign individuals. randome Jun 2013 #150

Well, if they have done nothing wrong, they have nothing to worry about, right? Do you view elected sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #28

Classifying documents is clearly mis-used. randome Jun 2013 #30

I explained to you about chilling speech and other guaranteed JDPriestly Jun 2013 #37

I do get your point, I really do, about the 'chilling' aspects of this. randome Jun 2013 #68

Excellent post on this, JDP! KoKo Jun 2013 #77

But there's too much secrecy, randome... ReRe Jun 2013 #45

But where do you draw the line at 'too many secrets'? randome Jun 2013 #65

Yes, this Adm has done some wonderful things... ReRe Jun 2013 #175

Think for a minute about who was president in 2008 Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #48

With three levels of review as we have now, I wouldn't worry much about it. randome Jun 2013 #64

You really think it is OK for Bush to have the access Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #80

I could easily see Congress ensuring that the data is never used for anything... randome Jun 2013 #153

Bush thought he needed it too. Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #187

Would that be the review enlightenment Jun 2013 #96

Sure, it 'may' be inadequate. I can be convinced of that. randome Jun 2013 #148

Just by-the-by, Richard NIxon had the same controls. Didn't stop him at all. n/t jtuck004 Jun 2013 #137

I don't think he had a panel of judges, two Congressional subcommittees and a signing judge, did he? randome Jun 2013 #149

As Nixon said, "If the President does it, it can't be illegal" or somthing along those lines... jtuck004 Jun 2013 #161

One point pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #165

It was secretly public: JaneyVee Jun 2013 #8

See this - "Greenwald got the media to bite on a story from 2006" FarCenter Jun 2013 #9

Nope nebenaube Jun 2013 #15

Take it up with the president, he's the one who said it was a leak Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #21

It was leaked to the press during the Bush years and it was a SCANDAL at that time. WE, Democrats sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #29

+1 for the truth. n/t Laelth Jun 2013 #52

Just one quibble nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #79

True, I wasn't really clear on that. FISA was in place and was modified to protect Bush and the sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #87

And retroactively violates core principles of American law nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #88

Yes but "nobody's listening to your phone calls" except Verizon, AT&T... Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #19

yep Obama's words by calling it a leak yesterday refutes their weak spin!nt boilerbabe Jun 2013 #20

Worst administration ever newmember Jun 2013 #26

Worse than George W. Bush? Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #32

Yes not because Bush was better but because Obama was suppose to be different newmember Jun 2013 #33

So ending the Iraq War, Don't Ask Don't Tell, and the Pre-existing Condition Exclusion don't count? SunSeeker Jun 2013 #36

No, people with ODS are blind to that. treestar Jun 2013 #58

IMHO the Elizabeth Warren stuff is just cover. emulatorloo Jun 2013 #132

That's wrong, and unfair. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #145

I must disagree on that point. Laelth Jun 2013 #54

Derp WilliamPitt Jun 2013 #125

This OP ProSense Jun 2013 #27

Indeed. Nobody is offering any solutions to these problems. Laelth Jun 2013 #55

Whatever. Obama is the one who has been reaching across the isle. L0oniX Jun 2013 #181

I hear they're also in touch with aliens.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #31

Thanks. Most DUers just don't understand the legal meaning of JDPriestly Jun 2013 #34

I guess I should make a collection jberryhill Jun 2013 #42

Violent threats should be reported if they concern the president JDPriestly Jun 2013 #44

FDR locked up the Japanese jberryhill Jun 2013 #46

This surveillance door needs to be fixed. That's all I can say. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #47

13 Counties in FL have set up a such a system - iWATCH program (report your neighbors and friends!) Melinda Jun 2013 #66

*snort* DevonRex Jun 2013 #38

k&r Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #39

There was a leak involved, but the program has been reported on several times. n/t Bolo Boffin Jun 2013 #40

Haven't you always been showing your ass? jberryhill Jun 2013 #41

lol! Number23 Jun 2013 #43

Not hard to figure out pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #172

imaginitve reconstruction of the truth sigmasix Jun 2013 #49

I said all of that? Then *you* said that the Iraq War was necessary. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #69

america shouldnt have kept D-Day secret either sigmasix Jun 2013 #50

Yes, that's what I said. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #70

k&r for the truth, however depressing it may be. n/t Laelth Jun 2013 #51

K&R forestpath Jun 2013 #56

You think President Warren will do away with all classified information? treestar Jun 2013 #57

She'll never be president whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #60

She is too good a person to be President? treestar Jun 2013 #61

Yes. whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #62

Why bother then? treestar Jun 2013 #63

We choose who we believe are the best of the survivors whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #67

Yes, that's what I said. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #71

You have to say that treestar Jun 2013 #73

She'll *try* MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #74

What does that mean? treestar Jun 2013 #76

Since when did spying on the entire country have anything to do with 'protecting national security'? sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #78

Spying on the entire country? treestar Jun 2013 #82

Warren is a tough-on-terra former Republican. ucrdem Jun 2013 #89

The OP believes she would be much better treestar Jun 2013 #103

Go figure. n/t ucrdem Jun 2013 #119

It is spying on the whole country nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #90

Like the IRS database? So maybe we should we abolish the IRS, too? ucrdem Jun 2013 #94

Look, I grew up in a country were we had to watch what we said nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #98

You do realize that this inane non-story blew a huge hole ucrdem Jun 2013 #102

Do you realize I stand with the Constitution? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #104

It was a huge story in 2003 when Congress shot down TIA ucrdem Jun 2013 #110

For partisans it s a non story nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #111

Say the tabs. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #112

Say the deep partisan nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #116

We don't have to watch what we say here treestar Jun 2013 #106

You think we had to do this overnight? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #108

That database is a lot worse treestar Jun 2013 #105

Again, explain to me how the NSA knowing who is calling who in this country is going to stop terror. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #93

Bush broke the laws, Obama doesn't. ucrdem Jun 2013 #95

To me the President sounds perfectly reasonable: treestar Jun 2013 #113

Great speech. Video here: ucrdem Jun 2013 #117

Wrong, Bush broke the law, yes, but then Congress adjusted that law, retroactively, so now he sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #129

So I'm exactly correct and you admit it. Thank you. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #130

No, you couldn't be more wrong. The law was adjusted making what Bush did legal. Just as that sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #138

I don't know that. treestar Jun 2013 #109

I appreciate that you are willing to discuss it and you are asking good questions. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #136

Yes, spying on the entire country pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #171

Yeah, because opposing "spy on everyone" is the same as saying nothing can be classified. Marr Jun 2013 #92

What can be classified? treestar Jun 2013 #115

Perhaps the President and his advisers do not understand? kentuck Jun 2013 #81

Good for Obama that this Big Brother stuff came out after the election. NoodleyAppendage Jun 2013 #85

We know there was coordination from DHS nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #91

Yeah good thing Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #151

I have known about this since 2006 arely staircase Jun 2013 #86

You knew that the record of every telephone call made in the US MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #97

yepper arely staircase Jun 2013 #99

AMERICA THROUGH THE N.S.A.�S PRISM MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #101

So then your actual answer is no. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #114

again, i knew the NSA was collecting all our phone metdata in 2006, didn't you? arely staircase Jun 2013 #118

I did not know about PRISM but admit, like you, to suspecting it. I presumed the phone data GoneFishin Jun 2013 #122

I don't have near the problem with PRISM that I do with the phone data mining. arely staircase Jun 2013 #124

I do. They are not going to stop there. After it runs it's course you may. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #127

I may. But tht is slippery slope speculation arely staircase Jun 2013 #128

It's slippery slope trajectory suffragette Jun 2013 #176

Where Obama stood as a candidate Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #152

Wow, the OP is pretty much completely undermined by this article. phleshdef Jun 2013 #146

EFF is stating the gov't is asking for more time for other surveillance cases now suffragette Jun 2013 #100

Is that "No Way!" Manny writing? MineralMan Jun 2013 #123

If its technically feasible, you assume the government will use it DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #131

No. I didn't say I was OK with it. MineralMan Jun 2013 #135

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #133

e.g., see post #100 nm MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #134

First of all, there is NO "spy on everyone" program, jazzimov Jun 2013 #139

The Cheerleaders LIE. blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #141

it's like that New Outer Limits episode where the doctors are hooked into a woman's mind as it MisterP Jun 2013 #142

'way beyond anything Nixon did' markiv Jun 2013 #155

Yes, it is. pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #169

The Cheerleaders lie to themselves and us pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #168

Manny thank You donnasgirl Jun 2013 #144

TeaLeftist Overreaction. RBInMaine Jun 2013 #147

devistating reposte frylock Jun 2013 #179

'To serve the Public'....IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!!! markiv Jun 2013 #154

I remember it well pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #170

SENATOR Obama co-sponsored a bill that would outlaw any warrants without specific probable cause BlueStreak Jun 2013 #156

On the one hand the spying and over-secrecy are outrageous. limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #157

TROLL !!! eom cartach Jun 2013 #158

K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #164

this post may have landed you on a watch list. ileus Jun 2013 #166

TIA total information awareness tavalon Jun 2013 #167

There is no Spy On Everyone policy gcomeau Jun 2013 #178

Molly Ivins would have loved this: chervilant Jun 2013 #180

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #182

Its was made PUBLIC in 2006. Where have you been????????????????? NewEngland4Obama Jun 2013 #185

Nothing presented here by the apologists excuses it or mitigates how disgusting it is. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #186