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Ms. Toad

(38,648 posts)

48. Think for a minute about who was president in 2008

Sat Jun 8, 2013, 02:23 AM

Jun 2013

Really? You would have trusted Bush with that information?

Phone metadata = who you called, when you called them, how long you talked, and where you (both) were.

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Obama's "Spy on Everyone" policy was already public? My *ass*, it was. [View all] MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 OP

The drone program was also supposedly a secret. nt geek tragedy Jun 2013 #1

The CIA has been doing assignations for years. Read the pentagon papers still_one Jun 2013 #3

Yes sir, the CIA's a hot date alright! xtraxritical Jun 2013 #120

A secret from whom? Certainly not the family and associates of those murdered. byeya Jun 2013 #72

a vocal MINORITY on here used to argue it was technically imposible, but since yesterday they have usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #2

I don't know I see it as a pretty even split on du still_one Jun 2013 #5

actually, I should have said some, as they really are just a vocal MINORITY here. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #12

My point really was blanket statements are not necessary good. still_one Jun 2013 #16

Just like blanket spying, right? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #17

Yes they are a minority, but even that few who claim to be democrats, and I do not doubt it, is far sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #22

Yep, they always make those points and they are *always* there. Marr Jun 2013 #83

Isn't it wonderful when peoples hobbies and profession line up. SolutionisSolidarity Jun 2013 #174

And some are so Pro Obama it just doesn't make Sense. n/t A Simple Game Jun 2013 #183

It was G.W. Bush and that Congress that gave us this FISA act and xtraxritical Jun 2013 #121

AND THEY'RE THE SAME FUCKING DUERS DOING IT AS WERE SAYING THAT Occulus Jun 2013 #6

+1000000 woo me with science Jun 2013 #11

yes, you are absolutely correct, and you are also right to voice it at the type of your lungs usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #23

And they think no one notices. Ignore them from now on. We have work to do and we need to start sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #25

Right you are. There are some here well practiced in the art of self delusion. byeya Jun 2013 #59

+1, yep-- it's sickening. Marr Jun 2013 #84

+1 Zorra Jun 2013 #140

And they ALL seem to get the same Talking Points at the same time. bvar22 Jun 2013 #143

Preternatural flexibility is a characteristic of pom pom wavers Fumesucker Jun 2013 #14

lol. they are unbelievable. boilerbabe Jun 2013 #18

Yes, I have noticed the sharply different approach MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #24

You're confused Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #4

Frontline did a two hour special on the specifics of how they do the "vacuum" years ago. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #126

No, you're confused pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #163

Correction. cstanleytech Jun 2013 #173

When did Obama specifically say he would end the NSA collection of phone records? Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #177

You mean the government no longer serves YOU. randome Jun 2013 #7

I'm mad because *something specific* was kept secret MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #10

Phone record metadata is blase, IMO. randome Jun 2013 #13

This means that the NSA of a sitting president can obtain JDPriestly Jun 2013 #35

There is a process set up for all of this. randome Jun 2013 #53

It's not, and it's much too intrusive at this point. If the NSA had a specific foreign SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #159

I'm okay with them shutting the whole thing down, too. randome Jun 2013 #160

Agreed. I think it's well past time to look at everything in the Patriot Act and SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #162

You don't blame President Obama for using the tools at his disposal? What if you called A Simple Game Jun 2013 #184

And, who sees this information? Not just a Govt. Controlled agency KoKo Jun 2013 #75

The fact that you limit the scope of your comments to meta data is very telling to me. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #107

The PRISM data SUPPOSEDLY targets foreign individuals. randome Jun 2013 #150

Well, if they have done nothing wrong, they have nothing to worry about, right? Do you view elected sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #28

Classifying documents is clearly mis-used. randome Jun 2013 #30

I explained to you about chilling speech and other guaranteed JDPriestly Jun 2013 #37

I do get your point, I really do, about the 'chilling' aspects of this. randome Jun 2013 #68

Excellent post on this, JDP! KoKo Jun 2013 #77

But there's too much secrecy, randome... ReRe Jun 2013 #45

But where do you draw the line at 'too many secrets'? randome Jun 2013 #65

Yes, this Adm has done some wonderful things... ReRe Jun 2013 #175

Think for a minute about who was president in 2008 Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #48

With three levels of review as we have now, I wouldn't worry much about it. randome Jun 2013 #64

You really think it is OK for Bush to have the access Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #80

I could easily see Congress ensuring that the data is never used for anything... randome Jun 2013 #153

Bush thought he needed it too. Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #187

Would that be the review enlightenment Jun 2013 #96

Sure, it 'may' be inadequate. I can be convinced of that. randome Jun 2013 #148

Just by-the-by, Richard NIxon had the same controls. Didn't stop him at all. n/t jtuck004 Jun 2013 #137

I don't think he had a panel of judges, two Congressional subcommittees and a signing judge, did he? randome Jun 2013 #149

As Nixon said, "If the President does it, it can't be illegal" or somthing along those lines... jtuck004 Jun 2013 #161

One point pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #165

It was secretly public: JaneyVee Jun 2013 #8

See this - "Greenwald got the media to bite on a story from 2006" FarCenter Jun 2013 #9

Nope nebenaube Jun 2013 #15

Take it up with the president, he's the one who said it was a leak Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #21

It was leaked to the press during the Bush years and it was a SCANDAL at that time. WE, Democrats sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #29

+1 for the truth. n/t Laelth Jun 2013 #52

Just one quibble nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #79

True, I wasn't really clear on that. FISA was in place and was modified to protect Bush and the sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #87

And retroactively violates core principles of American law nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #88

Yes but "nobody's listening to your phone calls" except Verizon, AT&T... Corruption Inc Jun 2013 #19

yep Obama's words by calling it a leak yesterday refutes their weak spin!nt boilerbabe Jun 2013 #20

Worst administration ever newmember Jun 2013 #26

Worse than George W. Bush? Cali_Democrat Jun 2013 #32

Yes not because Bush was better but because Obama was suppose to be different newmember Jun 2013 #33

So ending the Iraq War, Don't Ask Don't Tell, and the Pre-existing Condition Exclusion don't count? SunSeeker Jun 2013 #36

No, people with ODS are blind to that. treestar Jun 2013 #58

IMHO the Elizabeth Warren stuff is just cover. emulatorloo Jun 2013 #132

That's wrong, and unfair. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #145

I must disagree on that point. Laelth Jun 2013 #54

Derp WilliamPitt Jun 2013 #125

This OP ProSense Jun 2013 #27

Indeed. Nobody is offering any solutions to these problems. Laelth Jun 2013 #55

Whatever. Obama is the one who has been reaching across the isle. L0oniX Jun 2013 #181

I hear they're also in touch with aliens.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #31

Thanks. Most DUers just don't understand the legal meaning of JDPriestly Jun 2013 #34

I guess I should make a collection jberryhill Jun 2013 #42

Violent threats should be reported if they concern the president JDPriestly Jun 2013 #44

FDR locked up the Japanese jberryhill Jun 2013 #46

This surveillance door needs to be fixed. That's all I can say. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #47

13 Counties in FL have set up a such a system - iWATCH program (report your neighbors and friends!) Melinda Jun 2013 #66

*snort* DevonRex Jun 2013 #38

k&r Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #39

There was a leak involved, but the program has been reported on several times. n/t Bolo Boffin Jun 2013 #40

Haven't you always been showing your ass? jberryhill Jun 2013 #41

lol! Number23 Jun 2013 #43

Not hard to figure out pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #172

imaginitve reconstruction of the truth sigmasix Jun 2013 #49

I said all of that? Then *you* said that the Iraq War was necessary. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #69

america shouldnt have kept D-Day secret either sigmasix Jun 2013 #50

Yes, that's what I said. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #70

k&r for the truth, however depressing it may be. n/t Laelth Jun 2013 #51

K&R forestpath Jun 2013 #56

You think President Warren will do away with all classified information? treestar Jun 2013 #57

She'll never be president whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #60

She is too good a person to be President? treestar Jun 2013 #61

Yes. whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #62

Why bother then? treestar Jun 2013 #63

We choose who we believe are the best of the survivors whatchamacallit Jun 2013 #67

Yes, that's what I said. MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #71

You have to say that treestar Jun 2013 #73

She'll *try* MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #74

What does that mean? treestar Jun 2013 #76

Since when did spying on the entire country have anything to do with 'protecting national security'? sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #78

Spying on the entire country? treestar Jun 2013 #82

Warren is a tough-on-terra former Republican. ucrdem Jun 2013 #89

The OP believes she would be much better treestar Jun 2013 #103

Go figure. n/t ucrdem Jun 2013 #119

It is spying on the whole country nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #90

Like the IRS database? So maybe we should we abolish the IRS, too? ucrdem Jun 2013 #94

Look, I grew up in a country were we had to watch what we said nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #98

You do realize that this inane non-story blew a huge hole ucrdem Jun 2013 #102

Do you realize I stand with the Constitution? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #104

It was a huge story in 2003 when Congress shot down TIA ucrdem Jun 2013 #110

For partisans it s a non story nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #111

Say the tabs. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #112

Say the deep partisan nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #116

We don't have to watch what we say here treestar Jun 2013 #106

You think we had to do this overnight? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #108

That database is a lot worse treestar Jun 2013 #105

Again, explain to me how the NSA knowing who is calling who in this country is going to stop terror. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #93

Bush broke the laws, Obama doesn't. ucrdem Jun 2013 #95

To me the President sounds perfectly reasonable: treestar Jun 2013 #113

Great speech. Video here: ucrdem Jun 2013 #117

Wrong, Bush broke the law, yes, but then Congress adjusted that law, retroactively, so now he sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #129

So I'm exactly correct and you admit it. Thank you. nt ucrdem Jun 2013 #130

No, you couldn't be more wrong. The law was adjusted making what Bush did legal. Just as that sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #138

I don't know that. treestar Jun 2013 #109

I appreciate that you are willing to discuss it and you are asking good questions. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #136

Yes, spying on the entire country pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #171

Yeah, because opposing "spy on everyone" is the same as saying nothing can be classified. Marr Jun 2013 #92

What can be classified? treestar Jun 2013 #115

Perhaps the President and his advisers do not understand? kentuck Jun 2013 #81

Good for Obama that this Big Brother stuff came out after the election. NoodleyAppendage Jun 2013 #85

We know there was coordination from DHS nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #91

Yeah good thing Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #151

I have known about this since 2006 arely staircase Jun 2013 #86

You knew that the record of every telephone call made in the US MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #97

yepper arely staircase Jun 2013 #99

AMERICA THROUGH THE N.S.A.�S PRISM MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #101

So then your actual answer is no. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #114

again, i knew the NSA was collecting all our phone metdata in 2006, didn't you? arely staircase Jun 2013 #118

I did not know about PRISM but admit, like you, to suspecting it. I presumed the phone data GoneFishin Jun 2013 #122

I don't have near the problem with PRISM that I do with the phone data mining. arely staircase Jun 2013 #124

I do. They are not going to stop there. After it runs it's course you may. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #127

I may. But tht is slippery slope speculation arely staircase Jun 2013 #128

It's slippery slope trajectory suffragette Jun 2013 #176

Where Obama stood as a candidate Life Long Dem Jun 2013 #152

Wow, the OP is pretty much completely undermined by this article. phleshdef Jun 2013 #146

EFF is stating the gov't is asking for more time for other surveillance cases now suffragette Jun 2013 #100

Is that "No Way!" Manny writing? MineralMan Jun 2013 #123

If its technically feasible, you assume the government will use it DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #131

No. I didn't say I was OK with it. MineralMan Jun 2013 #135

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #133

e.g., see post #100 nm MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #134

First of all, there is NO "spy on everyone" program, jazzimov Jun 2013 #139

The Cheerleaders LIE. blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #141

it's like that New Outer Limits episode where the doctors are hooked into a woman's mind as it MisterP Jun 2013 #142

'way beyond anything Nixon did' markiv Jun 2013 #155

Yes, it is. pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #169

The Cheerleaders lie to themselves and us pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #168

Manny thank You donnasgirl Jun 2013 #144

TeaLeftist Overreaction. RBInMaine Jun 2013 #147

devistating reposte frylock Jun 2013 #179

'To serve the Public'....IT'S A COOKBOOK!!!!! markiv Jun 2013 #154

I remember it well pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #170

SENATOR Obama co-sponsored a bill that would outlaw any warrants without specific probable cause BlueStreak Jun 2013 #156

On the one hand the spying and over-secrecy are outrageous. limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #157

TROLL !!! eom cartach Jun 2013 #158

K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #164

this post may have landed you on a watch list. ileus Jun 2013 #166

TIA total information awareness tavalon Jun 2013 #167

There is no Spy On Everyone policy gcomeau Jun 2013 #178

Molly Ivins would have loved this: chervilant Jun 2013 #180

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #182

Its was made PUBLIC in 2006. Where have you been????????????????? NewEngland4Obama Jun 2013 #185

Nothing presented here by the apologists excuses it or mitigates how disgusting it is. GoneFishin Jun 2013 #186