General Discussion

timdog44

(1,388 posts)

13. Not sure if I am addressing

Reply to nashville_brook (Original post)

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 11:21 AM

Jun 2013

what you are saying. But I see the problem with surveillance is it so sporadic and jealously guarded by who ever the surveillance is being done by. There is no coordination of efforts. It happened to Bush on his watch. The airplane things was known but those in the know did not want to let anyone else take the credit. We knew, with 20-20 hind vision, that Osama Bin Laden was planning an attack by airplane on buildings here in the USA. The tragedy in Boston was known about, but due bumbling, it was never followed up correctly. I believe that surveillance is a necessary evil, but there are so many spy agencies that don't want to share their information it is absolutely ridiculous. We, they, need to get their positions together and climb into the 21st century. There are some real computer geeks out there that can get a lot of this done. These guys need to take off their black suits and sunglasses and climb into a pair on jean and a regular shirt and sit down and get to work.

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This is why ALL liberals *should* oppose dragnet surveillance [View all] nashville_brook Jun 2013 OP

k&r Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #1

k&r for exposure. n/t Laelth Jun 2013 #2

K&R LWolf Jun 2013 #3

Democracy & government in secret are opposites. DirkGently Jun 2013 #4

Obama adopts Bush's doctrine...and it's all *yawn*...yargle bargle...poutrage...firebagger nashville_brook Jun 2013 #5

If this issue goes unchecked, there is nothing left. DirkGently Jun 2013 #8

Thank you. nt woo me with science Jun 2013 #10

2008 -- NSA listened in on soldiers' phone sex with their wives nashville_brook Jun 2013 #22

The Constitution recognizes that. DirkGently Jun 2013 #28

PROOF: we THOUGHT that a democratic executive branch would fix this nashville_brook Jun 2013 #42

Did you intend to us a small "d" in your title? The terms are not synonymous. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #58

touche. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #62

Hey, using French is uncalled for. I think. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #63

le ha ha! nashville_brook Jun 2013 #65

Put it this way ... DirkGently Jun 2013 #81

"President Rubio" having these powers is almost as nashville_brook Jun 2013 #84

Exactly. The degree/depth of rolling over and apologetics, on this "Underground" site is astonishing villager Jun 2013 #51

This helps explain Clapper's distinction in backtracking an earlier statement suffragette Jun 2013 #80

marcy wheeler has been WAY on top of this story. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #87

Yes, this does go to the heart of the problem suffragette Jun 2013 #92

daaaang. i bet there's going to be a lot of this kind of "oopsie" as commentary is sought nashville_brook Jun 2013 #93

Yep, lots of clap on, clap off by the Clapper suffragette Jun 2013 #95

here's a video of what it likely Clapper lying to Congress --> nashville_brook Jun 2013 #127

I think that's the same one at Wheeler's site suffragette Jun 2013 #141

yup. will be interesting to see how the Clapper arc proceeds! nashville_brook Jun 2013 #144

More developments here suffragette Jun 2013 #146

with names like that on the org-chart, you have to wonder how much they're bilking us for nashville_brook Jun 2013 #148

Booz, Allen, Hamilton JDPriestly Jun 2013 #150

Just like when Hoover sent LBJ classified records for his own titillation Generic Other Jun 2013 #104

Stasi-riffic. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #107

I hear you! The association is crystal clear....and don't the idiot children snappyturtle Jun 2013 #162

We need to call it what it is. RC Jun 2013 #137

Bingo. No one gets to police their own wrongdoing. DirkGently Jun 2013 #138

k/r marmar Jun 2013 #6

K&R forestpath Jun 2013 #7

So repeal FISA Recursion Jun 2013 #9

he sure sold himself as "determined" to "CHANGE" trading privacy for security nashville_brook Jun 2013 #11

said Obama: don't accept "false choice, between liberties we cherish and security we provide. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #24

Do you know which Senator proposed FISA and which President signed its creation into law? JoePhilly Jun 2013 #53

i betting you cheer Obama's use of surveillance. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #61

More ad hominem, fudrs are having a hard time with the facts uponit7771 Jun 2013 #97

really? ad hominem? if you support surveillance, how is that ad hominem. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #99

He supports surveillance. He said so very distinctly. DisgustipatedinCA Jun 2013 #101

:) thought so -- precisely why it's not ad hominem. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #105

I sure do, I support Obama survelliance on large crowds hes in and terrorist organizations uponit7771 Jun 2013 #119

how about in your living room? in your children's bedroom? your phone? nashville_brook Jun 2013 #121

Carefully targeted information. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #151

+1 nashville_brook Jun 2013 #154

Uh huh. The "fudrs" are using ad hominem? Self parody much? DirkGently Jun 2013 #117

"Acronyms are so CLEVER!" nashville_brook Jun 2013 #122

"Friends of the Upper Delaware River? DirkGently Jun 2013 #123

frankly unrepentant democratic rabblerousers nashville_brook Jun 2013 #130

Fierce Uber Dems rallying! DirkGently Jun 2013 #131

fearless under dogs reporting nashville_brook Jun 2013 #134

Fun Underground Dems resplendent? DirkGently Jun 2013 #132

furry underwear doesn't ride-up nashville_brook Jun 2013 #140

Famous Uncles Diligently rotating? DirkGently Jun 2013 #142

fancy umbrella drains revealingly nashville_brook Jun 2013 #143

Farriers Unilaterally Dowsing Resevoirs? DirkGently Jun 2013 #155

What a brilliant piece Blecht Jun 2013 #12

thanks...and thank Twitter nashville_brook Jun 2013 #14

Yes it's the best source for news. dkf Jun 2013 #34

Not sure if I am addressing timdog44 Jun 2013 #13

No. We don't need them to get better at this. DirkGently Jun 2013 #17

I think the problem with surveillance timdog44 Jun 2013 #25

the surveillance is secret. the court proceeding of the secrets are secret. the legislative nashville_brook Jun 2013 #76

And who do you suggest they ask? timdog44 Jun 2013 #82

nosiree. stopping the dragnet surveillance is the only solution if we want a democracy. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #91

Note the use of the camouflage avatar kenny blankenship Jun 2013 #38

camo-tar...i hadn't thought of it that way... nashville_brook Jun 2013 #48

Obama has shown he's more concerned about whistleblowers than intel accuracy nashville_brook Jun 2013 #18

I think you are right about the whistleblower thing. timdog44 Jun 2013 #26

and yet you seem in favor of state surveillance of citizens. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #100

It seems that timdog44 Jun 2013 #103

i don't think you understand what this surveillance is about, or what acceptable limits are nashville_brook Jun 2013 #125

I suppose you may very well be right. timdog44 Jun 2013 #126

You're assuming that they wanted to know but just made some mistakes. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #39

But what I am seeing, timdog44 Jun 2013 #49

Well, we are Verizon customers who, as far as I know, are not under suspicion for any crime, let sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #55

We need to know how they're justifying the spying. DirkGently Jun 2013 #98

apparently there's plenty of DU-folk who agree that "lawful" means anything POTUS nashville_brook Jun 2013 #108

That is -- literally -- a Nixonian concept. DirkGently Jun 2013 #109

Cheney codified it for Bush and Obama did NOTHING to change it. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #115

+1000000 -- if we give up all our freedom they won't hate us anymore. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #50

Even the wealthy and powerful should care siligut Jun 2013 #15

what this means is that power will be defined by how much access is granted to OUR info nashville_brook Jun 2013 #16

And what about Skinner, Elad and EarlG? siligut Jun 2013 #23

hardly anyone posts anything personal info here...few use their real names nashville_brook Jun 2013 #27

Apparently NSA spooks are more trustworthy than DU DirkGently Jun 2013 #31

eggsactly! nashville_brook Jun 2013 #47

Tongue-in-cheek siligut Jun 2013 #43

:) and ALL the sockpuppet's IPs as well...I'm suuuuuurrrrre. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #46

I do see an occasional phishing post here... ReasonableToo Jun 2013 #83

you can't help but think that...i've thought it too. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #86

all citizens should oppose a security state. KG Jun 2013 #19

you'd think this would be non-controversial...and non-partisan... nashville_brook Jun 2013 #35

K&R. nt DLevine Jun 2013 #20

The rich are conserned about anything that could be used to undo them. The NSA will help out. L0oniX Jun 2013 #21

hell, with privatization, the "rich" likely own these networks in the first place. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #29

Some of it is undoubtedly farmed out to the likes of Raytheon and CSC BlueStreak Jun 2013 #36

imagine all the "foreign" companies that are likely contracting services. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #45

And remember, our database has a lot of information about citizens of other countries BlueStreak Jun 2013 #56

have you seen the Boundless Informant map? nashville_brook Jun 2013 #70

I am not surprised. This has not been the "land of the free" for a long time BlueStreak Jun 2013 #71

and, woe be to us if the Tea Party actually opposes the data suck too... nashville_brook Jun 2013 #73

Yes. Remember Jane Mayer's piece DirkGently Jun 2013 #79

What's the Problem with Metadata...her latest... nashville_brook Jun 2013 #114

k and r niyad Jun 2013 #30

Horrified by how many "liberals" are defending this shit moonbeam23 Jun 2013 #32

back in the 80s, one of the biggest reasons people wouldn't sign petitions, nashville_brook Jun 2013 #37

They only defend it because they are party liners. morningfog Jun 2013 #147

The scope of Big Data is far beyond what anybody is talking about BlueStreak Jun 2013 #33

FL school uses retina scan for students riding bus -- without parents consent nashville_brook Jun 2013 #40

That is probably not in the Data Base --- yet BlueStreak Jun 2013 #54

f'n good points on warrants and toll roads...also, the info is a marketable product nashville_brook Jun 2013 #64

That is why it is not constitutional RobertEarl Jun 2013 #77

Agree completely nashville_brook Jun 2013 #85

I think 99% of the people oppose a security state but what are you going to do about it? xtraxritical Jun 2013 #41

for those who are already "on the grid" -- let's USE the GRID to fight this. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #44

The Money Statement - Surveillance Leads To Fear Which Leads To Apathy Which Leads To Control cantbeserious Jun 2013 #52

Same nebenaube Jun 2013 #66

it's always been about criminalizing populations. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #74

better idea, all CITIZENS should oppose dragnet surveillance markiv Jun 2013 #57

yup -- totally agree. just addressing this problems w/in our own house nashville_brook Jun 2013 #60

Huge K&R 99Forever Jun 2013 #59

very interesting kentuck Jun 2013 #67

K&R MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #68

Thank you for posting this. Last night when I dropped into DU and read all snappyturtle Jun 2013 #69

it's abhorrent to see DU defending this vast data collection nashville_brook Jun 2013 #72

I'm not so much 'ashamed' as I am frightened. Can't folks understand that snappyturtle Jun 2013 #75

"cyber-kettled"! THAT is perfect. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #78

Personality over principle. Just as a joke, DirkGently Jun 2013 #94

without waterboarding we'd be no better than the terrorists nashville_brook Jun 2013 #96

If they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear. DirkGently Jun 2013 #129

everybody's got something to hide... nashville_brook Jun 2013 #139

Obviously you forgot the sarcasm tag, or not? nt snappyturtle Jun 2013 #159

Not sure it's facetious when directed at government. DirkGently Jun 2013 #160

Point taken. Also,the transparency talk is just that. nt snappyturtle Jun 2013 #161

It's hard for people with their knees jerking so violently. DirkGently Jun 2013 #157

K & R AzDar Jun 2013 #88

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #89

you're welcome WillyT! nashville_brook Jun 2013 #90

DURec leftstreet Jun 2013 #102

I *KNOW* it's being done to keep us safe!!! But I want to know how many pot smoking grannies it has Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #106

Maybe all liberals do. Doubt it? Point to a single liberal who does not. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #110

i can point to plenty of DUers... nashville_brook Jun 2013 #111

Are all of them or any of them liberals? AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #112

:) thought that's where this was going...good point. nashville_brook Jun 2013 #113

Everywhere. joshcryer Jun 2013 #116

this is a finer detail...we have no idea how our data is being used, b/c nashville_brook Jun 2013 #120

It wouldn't surprise me if the NSA paid for this shit. joshcryer Jun 2013 #124

not just "getting paid" - ripping us off e.g. Trailblazer vs Thin Thread nashville_brook Jun 2013 #136

All liberals DO! MNBrewer Jun 2013 #118

definitely the litmus test of the moment! nashville_brook Jun 2013 #128

k/r 840high Jun 2013 #133

All coming together PopeOxycontinI Jun 2013 #135

+1 nashville_brook Jun 2013 #145

kicked for the night folk tavalon Jun 2013 #149

Kick for "The very existence of such state spying apparatus is enough ... Scuba Jun 2013 #152

The chilling effect ... DirkGently Jun 2013 #156

K & R! mia Jun 2013 #153

K&R Solly Mack Jun 2013 #158