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proverbialwisdom

(4,959 posts)
150. Prove it. Hint, you can't. I deliberately choose not express 'opinion,' I post INFORMATION.
Sun Jun 9, 2013, 05:22 PM
Jun 2013

My posts on the subject are careful, intellectually rigorous, and also devoid of opinion (exception; Blaxill's Galileo Award op-ed). Sorry, Sid, tagging me as 'a defender of Andrew Wakefield' is not a rebuttal, it's name-calling, and SIMPLY WHAT YOU HAVE INFERRED from fact-based posts, none ban-worthy. That ought to give you serious pause. This is an example:

Here's a press release about a study recently published in a peer-reviewed journal. I added the underline in critical note #3. (FYI, Professor/Dr. John Walker-Smith is regarded as the co-founder of the field of pediatric gastroenterology with Harvard Professor/Dr. Allan Walker).

http://www.jabs.org.uk/

CryShame Press Release - 9 March 2013

http://www.cryshame.co.uk//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=156

Important new research ( http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0058058 ) reports similar findings to the work of Dr Andrew Wakefield in the 1998 Lancet and in subsequent paper in the early 2000s

Groundbreaking new research examines the molecular structure of inflammatory material taken from the bowels of autistic children. It compares the structure of diseased biopsies in the autistic children with biopsies from three groups of non-autistic children with Crohn’s disease, ulcerative colitis, and histologically normal (the controls).

Previous research confirmed the pathological and immunological make-up of biopsies of autistic children, but had not to date identified its specific molecular structure. Children with the four different conditions have been found to have similar findings of inflammation. But it was not clear if this was the same condition shared by all four groups; or if a distinct condition was specific to autistic children alone; or if indeed there was no disease in the autistic group. A molecular analysis of the genetic structure found in the inflamed bowel tissue of children in each group would provide initial answers to these questions.

To date government and medical scientists continue to deny an association between autism and bowel disease. In the UK there is currently no research into the association between autism and chronic bowel disease. This has been the predicament since the government and medical profession waged a campaign to discredit research from the Royal Free Hospital led by Dr Andrew Wakefield in 1998 and the early 2000s that first identified the presence of bowel disease in autistic children.

Following years of denial from government and the medical profession, new research published in the leading online journal PLOS ONE confirms the presence of intestinal disease in autistic children and supports reports from many parents of ongoing painful gastric problems in their autistic children.

The research studied bowel samples from 25 autistic, 8 Crohn's, 5 ulcerative colitis and 15 normal control children and found that inflammatory material obtained from the biopsies of autistic children had a distinct molecular structure that was different from the other three groups.

This is an important finding of the distinct genetic expression that has now been identified in autistic children as distinct from non-autistic children with Crohns, ulcerative colitis and normal bowels. It paves the way for future research into the specific molecular structure of the inflammation affecting autistic children and hopefully will lead to new interventions and treatment.

Background Notes

1. The first paper to bring to public attention the presence of bowel disease in autistic children was Wakefield AJ, (1998) 'Ileal-lymphoid-nodular hyperplasia, non-specific colitis, and pervasive developmental disorder in children'.The Lancet published this paper in 1998 but subsequently retracted it in 2010 after the GMC found Dr Wakefield and Professor Walker-Smith guilty of serious professional misconduct.

2. Several former colleagues went on in the early 2000s to study the nature of the bowel disease in autistic children, focusing on the pathology of gut tissue and the presence of autoimmune features in the bowel (eg Furlano et al (2001) 'Colonic CD8 and ?? T-cell infiltration with epithelial damage in children with autism', Journal of Pediatrics, Vol. 138, 3).

3. The senior research leader of the Lancet and subsequent papers was Professor John Walker-Smith who in March 2012 had all the charges of professional misconduct made by the GMC quashed on appeal by Justice Mitting in the High Court.

4. Government Minister admits more needs to be done to research autism and bowel disease. Read letter here: http://www.cryshame.co.uk//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=155&Itemid=135


http://www.plos.org/publications/journals/
http://www.plosone.org/static/information;jsessionid=7DA60CC5CF2F98E78452E6D220657239

PLOS ONE Journal Information

PLOS ONE (eISSN-1932-6203) is an international, peer-reviewed, open-access, online publication. PLOS ONE welcomes reports on primary research from any scientific discipline. It provides:
•Open-access—freely accessible online, authors retain copyright
•Fast publication times
•Peer review by expert, practicing researchers
•Post-publication tools to indicate quality and impact
•Community-based dialogue on articles
•Worldwide media coverage


Again, conclude what you wish. The future looks promising for sorting all this out, I'd say.
People who believe in pseudoscience have a misalignment of their chakras. Liberal Veteran Jun 2013 #1
lol Liberal_in_LA Jun 2013 #5
My Friend RobinA Jun 2013 #8
DUzy! eridani Jun 2013 #18
+1 burnodo Jun 2013 #100
Only a person filled with thetans would post that! Dash87 Jun 2013 #58
Got any proof for your claim? postulater Jun 2013 #2
My psychic, Miss Cleo channeled me. Archae Jun 2013 #4
sorry, but I think "woo" is a stupid internet slang term quinnox Jun 2013 #3
So what do you call it? Archae Jun 2013 #6
anything but "woo" quinnox Jun 2013 #7
I agree quinnox Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #12
I suspect the word "woo" is here to stay. Laelth Jun 2013 #28
Woo is almost certainly more prevalent on the Left than the Right, sadly. nt Codeine Jun 2013 #85
Depends on which woo. JoeyT Jun 2013 #130
What the hack is it? sammytko Jun 2013 #35
Completely agree. Twofish Jun 2013 #56
agreed! nt G_j Jun 2013 #76
Homeopathy.. one of my favorites MattBaggins Jun 2013 #9
So no homeopathic remedies work? Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #14
Pretty much TlalocW Jun 2013 #17
Correct RudynJack Jun 2013 #41
You are correct MattBaggins Jun 2013 #42
Are you conflating "homeopathy" with the term alternative medicine/ treatments? etherealtruth Jun 2013 #49
Probably Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #91
Nope. None. The placebo effect doesn't count. Dash87 Jun 2013 #59
Yes. Iggo Jun 2013 #68
Of course no homeopathic remedies work. Codeine Jun 2013 #87
I dunno, some might be a useful treatment for dehydration. (nt) Posteritatis Jun 2013 #106
Not true. eShirl Jun 2013 #141
That is correct. No homeopathic "remedy" works cleanhippie Jun 2013 #155
It's bred into us jberryhill Jun 2013 #10
Agreed, and that's why conspiracy theories are so popular. Archae Jun 2013 #11
But it's one of our better qualities jberryhill Jun 2013 #15
Very true. randome Jun 2013 #34
What I meant... Archae Jun 2013 #72
The OP asks "Why" do people do this jberryhill Jun 2013 #80
It might even be hard-wired genetically. annabanana Jun 2013 #61
Did you know the federal government just approved another phen-phen type drug today? Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #13
A cure for hunger! jberryhill Jun 2013 #16
Why do you repeatedly try to link/group/etc Chiropractic Medicine with Homeophathy? That's not cool. Electric Monk Jun 2013 #19
Though I appreciate the OP and the spirit of the OP etherealtruth Jun 2013 #39
But many chiropractors RudynJack Jun 2013 #43
You are, of course, correct etherealtruth Jun 2013 #46
The latest fad (if you could call it that) in chiropractic is chiropractic for babies. Archae Jun 2013 #50
Oh, god etherealtruth Jun 2013 #51
There is a difference between theory and practice here eridani Jun 2013 #136
When my son was in high school he did something to his back in PE pnwmom Jun 2013 #138
and then there are chiropractors like my sister's who peddle homeopathy and "kinesiology" eShirl Jun 2013 #140
My friend fell and hurt his back burnodo Jun 2013 #102
So true! A scam IMO! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #142
What is the purpose of this post? KT2000 Jun 2013 #20
That's not the point Scootaloo Jun 2013 #23
Again - KT2000 Jun 2013 #26
Who said politicians are scientists? Scootaloo Jun 2013 #65
the point is - KT2000 Jun 2013 #92
I'm a hospice nurse. Sometimes I do sound tuning fork relaxation mucifer Jun 2013 #32
What you describe is not quackery or "woo" etherealtruth Jun 2013 #38
You see no issue with charlatans stealing peoples' money? Dash87 Jun 2013 #60
beliefs are not innocent KT2000 Jun 2013 #63
I love how these posts always draw out the "oh, you must be a paid shill" script... (nt) Posteritatis Jun 2013 #105
when the same person KT2000 Jun 2013 #119
It's an excuse to use the "anti-vaxxer" dog whistle. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2013 #109
Homeopathy is not "alternative medicine." It's not even actual medicine. cleanhippie Jun 2013 #156
Not really KT2000 Jun 2013 #159
Because woo is cheaper than science Scootaloo Jun 2013 #21
Good point. I suspect that $ does play a role in making woo appealing. n/t Laelth Jun 2013 #30
Because they work for some or many of those that try them. Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #22
Anecdotally, they work RudynJack Jun 2013 #44
who cares when it's *your* anecdote? Matariki Jun 2013 #110
Then you should RudynJack Jun 2013 #117
Miracle cures like this: Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #24
There are different kinds of chiropractors. JoeyT Jun 2013 #131
The OP tarred them all Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #134
Yeah, it's kind of an iffy field to discuss. JoeyT Jun 2013 #135
Pseudomedical horseshit Warpy Jun 2013 #25
Same reason people buy lottery tickets, I suppose. Laelth Jun 2013 #27
Truthfully? I think it's a lot to do with the fact that medicine in your country costs money. sibelian Jun 2013 #29
Of course, woo is even more popular in Europe, Codeine Jun 2013 #88
Well, I don't know about that. sibelian Jun 2013 #145
Personally I don't do woo madokie Jun 2013 #31
Because people believe what they read on the Internet... SidDithers Jun 2013 #33
Were I interested in the general subject area, here's where I'd start reading. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #121
No, you'd start with Age of Autism... SidDithers Jun 2013 #124
Not true, however, the BBC recently linked to Age of Autism as one of two "Related Internet Links." proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #151
It isn't always woo. Alternative practices are being used in medical facilities. In_The_Wind Jun 2013 #36
Here's something interesting. LWolf Jun 2013 #53
I'm glad that you are ok! In_The_Wind Jun 2013 #57
You know what they call alternative medicine that actually does something? Posteritatis Jun 2013 #104
It works for me. In_The_Wind Jun 2013 #139
... because desperate people make poor choices etherealtruth Jun 2013 #37
"desperate people make poor choices" sufrommich Jun 2013 #47
Well, there are three hot-button words in your title. ananda Jun 2013 #40
There is no such thing as allopathic MattBaggins Jun 2013 #45
Medicine in an art and a science treestar Jun 2013 #48
Well.... cliffordu Jun 2013 #52
I don't know JustAnotherGen Jun 2013 #54
Chiropracty and naturopathy are not 'woo.' Twofish Jun 2013 #55
Oh yes they are MattBaggins Jun 2013 #99
So was giving women breast cancer by prescribing premarin also woo? KittyWampus Jun 2013 #122
This message was self-deleted by its author mother earth Jun 2013 #62
Couldn't have said it better. Twofish Jun 2013 #64
I agree, Ela RobertEarl Jun 2013 #66
I was told by someone I was anti science because I advocated aloe for minor burns Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #67
Studies with aloe on second degree burns MattBaggins Jun 2013 #103
Actually, no. Ms. Toad Jun 2013 #133
I'll treat my cancer with chemo and you can use your healing stones. Apophis Jun 2013 #73
This message was self-deleted by its author mother earth Jun 2013 #83
Why does part of me think Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #93
This message was self-deleted by its author mother earth Jun 2013 #95
Those two topics are totally related, aren't they? Apophis Jun 2013 #113
I'm sure you're one of those people who believe that vaccinations cause autism, aren't you? Apophis Jun 2013 #112
This message was self-deleted by its author mother earth Jun 2013 #149
I'll stick to science. Apophis Jun 2013 #160
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #147
Naturopathy is western MattBaggins Jun 2013 #101
LOL, please name the WOO topic you think has been proved..... Logical Jun 2013 #143
This message was self-deleted by its author mother earth Jun 2013 #154
Woo is Woo. You "believers" crack me up! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #158
This message was self-deleted by its author mother earth Jun 2013 #162
I believe you are gullible fool that believes anything! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #163
Music break, science song. Hope a little off-topic levity is ok. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #69
Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #70
And Thalidomide! WinkyDink Jun 2013 #74
And laetrile! Archae Jun 2013 #79
Enjoy your stay... Archae Jun 2013 #77
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #81
People who believe in woo are weak-minded wishful thinkers. Apophis Jun 2013 #71
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #75
What "thought?" Archae Jun 2013 #78
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #84
I know someone who lives their entire life in the world of New Age woo. Zorra Jun 2013 #82
I don't why you listed Chiropractic. My wife has had amazing results for her SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #86
Read this. Archae Jun 2013 #89
Call it what you want. My wife's chiropractor has made a postive difference for her. SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #111
If chiropractice is only used to treat certain bone and muscular issues, it has some use derby378 Jun 2013 #90
I agree with what you've said. Her Chiropratic practitioner specializes in SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #107
Placebo effect! -t Logical Jun 2013 #144
Placebo effect that has lasted for a year, when the best option the others could offer SlimJimmy Jun 2013 #146
The chiropractor I see has done my back and shoulders a whole lot of good Matariki Jun 2013 #94
Because there are different kinds of chiropractor. JoeyT Jun 2013 #132
If you don't want to try "alternative" therapies, then don't JanMichael Jun 2013 #96
What you mean "we", paleface? Iggo Jun 2013 #97
THIS WILL CURE YOU ! olddots Jun 2013 #98
Because "profit motive" = "non-woo" lumberjack_jeff Jun 2013 #108
Did you notice? Archae Jun 2013 #115
I don't see few reasons to recommend one over the other. n/t lumberjack_jeff Jun 2013 #118
A rebuttal from Tim Minchin derby378 Jun 2013 #116
Woo sounds sexy and Id like to hump it. bunnies Jun 2013 #114
Yes Hyaluronic acid is unproven woo MattBaggins Jun 2013 #157
I didn't write this and DO NOT endorse every claim, but it rebuts the "anti-vax nutjobs" silliness. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #120
"Age Of Autism" is a total bullshit web site. Archae Jun 2013 #123
The poster you're replying to is a defender of Andrew Wakefield... SidDithers Jun 2013 #125
Not surprised. Archae Jun 2013 #127
Heard of Dr. Poul Thorsen? proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #129
The fact that people are *still* Wakefield fanboys at this point is stunning. (nt) Posteritatis Jun 2013 #148
Prove it. Hint, you can't. I deliberately choose not express 'opinion,' I post INFORMATION. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #150
Keep denying it... SidDithers Jun 2013 #152
Lack of nuance does great disservice to that argument. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #128
FYI - Out of the Mouths of Babes:"Autism is a Sickness Where Your Tummy Hurts and You Can't Talk" proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #167
And here's when woo combines with right-wing bullshit. Archae Jun 2013 #126
My father used the "woo" of a chiropractor to deal with pnwmom Jun 2013 #137
Consumers of woo are morons, plain and simple. sagat Jun 2013 #153
An MRI was unable to detect a serious problem a chiropractor solved in a single session. Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #161
Because people inherently sense we are missing information. DirkGently Jun 2013 #164
Why do so many eagerly embrace Poo?* Berlum Jun 2013 #165
This is one result of anti-vaxx woo. Archae Jun 2013 #166
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Why do we so eagerly take...»Reply #150