General Discussion

markiv

(1,489 posts)

8. the classic '2 wrongs make a right' arguement

Sun Jun 9, 2013, 10:46 PM

Jun 2013

or your dont have enough protections now, so why have any protections?

they had the exact same arguement in the judiciary committee last week over h-1b guest worker visas, there was a provision to require that firms try to find americans first, but industry and schumer claimed that doesnt work well, so they killed ALL protections in the bill

the democratic party has been playing the 'we're not quite as bad as them card' for a long time, but that has to actually be true for that tactic to work

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Ok, so tell me why you are concerned about the government having this data... [View all] zaj Jun 2013 OP

Because our government can put me in jail MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #1

nor do they have access to ALL our digital communications, not to mention that it is usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #5

I imagine that its debatable... zaj Jun 2013 #44

Like I said, it's how the information is used. zaj Jun 2013 #7

so why not have a bill that allows random searches of all/any homes? markiv Jun 2013 #12

We don't donate our houses to the phone company willingly. zaj Jun 2013 #36

Seriously? mercymechap Jun 2013 #78

How would you know how its used if there was no whistleblower? TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2013 #28

I agree with the latter point... zaj Jun 2013 #40

The difference being that you can sue a phone company... TampaAnimusVortex Jun 2013 #120

No, it is the fact it is collected at all. RC Jun 2013 #101

Your assumption is deeply flawed. zaj Jun 2013 #105

They do not need all that information for call volume. RC Jun 2013 #115

It's That It's Collected RobinA Jun 2013 #114

You sound like Ted Nugent. One of the 99 Jun 2013 #41

You deny that our government can do that? MannyGoldstein Jun 2013 #42

I deny your and Ted's paranoia. One of the 99 Jun 2013 #88

You sound like you never heard of Don Siegelman. Octafish Jun 2013 #97

So you're agreeing with Nugent? One of the 99 Jun 2013 #116

No. I just don't agree with you, either. Octafish Jun 2013 #117

Manny and Nugent sound the same. One of the 99 Jun 2013 #118

Exactly. This is the Ron Paul libertarian movement framing it the way they want-NO gov't at all. graham4anything Jun 2013 #2

+1000nt Andy823 Jun 2013 #11

Snowden donated $500 to Ron Paul and likely voted for him. (He said third party) nt okaawhatever Jun 2013 #16

You cant be serious. You are going to allow the government to spy on everyone because Snowden rhett o rick Jun 2013 #54

I don't blame Snowden... zaj Jun 2013 #55

I don't think it's right to EITHER private companies or the government to store our data. Th1onein Jun 2013 #77

I can't believe (I can actually) nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #3

When the system is used in that way, then... zaj Jun 2013 #17

Excuse me, but AT&T does not have the power nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #21

+1 No American should even entertain this level of garbage. This is akin to being asked woo me with science Jun 2013 #63

This is a technical distinction, but it's important... zaj Jun 2013 #68

And then you can sue Verizon. zaj Jun 2013 #69

The level of ignorant garbage nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #70

Again, if you give this data to Verizon zaj Jun 2013 #73

Tell me, are telcos governments? nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #75

You are missing the point entirely. zaj Jun 2013 #79

No, I am not missing the point nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #80

I spend energy articulating details of my thoughts... zaj Jun 2013 #98

The fourth amendment is not a book nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #99

I'll stop being flip... zaj Jun 2013 #103

Simple, my rights, and yours, are not up for sale nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #106

I'm arguing process, not substance... zaj Jun 2013 #109

Excuses, excuses nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #110

I don't think you are listening... zaj Jun 2013 #112

Nah, your point is we should blame the corporations. nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #113

Didn't the govt just demand the data from Verizon & the rest marions ghost Jun 2013 #100

As I said... zaj Jun 2013 #104

I'm fine with blaming both of them-- marions ghost Jun 2013 #111

Because private companies don't have data mining software that LittleBlue Jun 2013 #4

You are joking. zaj Jun 2013 #9

They might know a lot LittleBlue Jun 2013 #30

Verizon has the data zaj Jun 2013 #93

We don't even know what Prism really is. The slides have already been questioned. It does not look okaawhatever Jun 2013 #23

Who do you think invented the technologies to do the data mining JoePhilly Jun 2013 #90

Let us know when the Google SWAT team kicks in your door, shoots your dog and handcuffs you Fumesucker Jun 2013 #6

Again, it's how it's used. Not that it's collected. zaj Jun 2013 #10

History is replete with examples of such powers being misused by government Fumesucker Jun 2013 #39

And you let us know Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #49

Happened to the Mayor of Berwyn Heights, Maryland Fumesucker Jun 2013 #50

Was this incident a result of Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #53

Since we have no way of knowing the extent of the program it's impossible to tell Fumesucker Jun 2013 #57

I see. Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #61

You mean law enforcement gets out of control in the land of the free? Fumesucker Jun 2013 #65

I never made a statement about Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #71

That's what the OP was all about, Google and Verizon are no different than government Fumesucker Jun 2013 #76

I wasn't responding to the OP Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #81

And I was responding to the OP Fumesucker Jun 2013 #83

Seriously, guy ... Summer Hathaway Jun 2013 #84

No sikofit3 Jun 2013 #96

Seems its a bit late to stop the intrusion at that point. I apply the breaks on my car before I hit Ed Suspicious Jun 2013 #59

the classic '2 wrongs make a right' arguement markiv Jun 2013 #8

I think you are missing my point... zaj Jun 2013 #43

Your point Le Taz Hot Jun 2013 #87

Not remotely either... zaj Jun 2013 #89

A lot of people are afraid of what COULD happen with the data. randome Jun 2013 #13

Not exactly true... zaj Jun 2013 #20

But they're not 'happy' (meaning unhappy) unless it's the government doing it. randome Jun 2013 #31

NOBODY should be creating databases of personal information. reformist2 Jun 2013 #14

Go with this. zaj Jun 2013 #18

Maybe you should tell us magellan Jun 2013 #56

Speculation here... zaj Jun 2013 #62

No it isn't the same, as has been pointed out to you multiple times already magellan Jun 2013 #66

ditto marions ghost Jun 2013 #102

We have a pretty good idea SpearthrowerOwl Jun 2013 #15

every objection I've heard on this board about the collection of this data adopts the right's framin markiv Jun 2013 #19

No, I'm saying that we need to frame the discussion... zaj Jun 2013 #25

"It is a recipie for tyranny in the U.S." Daniel Ellsberg usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #22

So are guns, aircraft, police forces in general and a dozen other things... zaj Jun 2013 #29

apples and oranges usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #33

Starting off with a false statement is no way to begin an argument. kenny blankenship Jun 2013 #24

Well I've elaborated here about my point. zaj Jun 2013 #26

Because facebook and google dont put cancer patients in prison for smoking pot. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #27

Koch Brothers may have singlehandedly caused hundreds or thousands of deaths by spending billions of zaj Jun 2013 #34

That is a whole mess of logical fallacies wrapped in a two sentence post. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #37

You assume a lot here... zaj Jun 2013 #47

I'm not hung up on sin. Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #82

When Verizon is bought by... zaj Jun 2013 #94

Because a government that considers every citizen a potential threat has no legitimacy. rug Jun 2013 #32

That's not remotely what they are doing... zaj Jun 2013 #35

Every call and email is logged, to be revisited as needed. rug Jun 2013 #38

Every call is logged by Verizon zaj Jun 2013 #45

Verizon is not the government and is illegitimate for entirely other reasons. rug Jun 2013 #48

That's nonsense. zaj Jun 2013 #95

The ACLU and the EFF are not adopting "the right's framing." DirkGently Jun 2013 #46

Oh good, another private industry versus Government collection thread. Savannahmann Jun 2013 #51

Disagree completely... zaj Jun 2013 #52

Yes I would have recourse. Savannahmann Jun 2013 #58

You can't stop them from using the data they gathered in any way they wanted, including mining it... zaj Jun 2013 #60

Why vote???????????? marions ghost Jun 2013 #108

Are we trying a variation of the old "the credit card companies track your spending" bullshit? TheKentuckian Jun 2013 #64

Verizon mines the exact same data... zaj Jun 2013 #67

Let us know when the Google SWAT team kicks in your door, shoots your dog and handcuffs you Fumesucker Jun 2013 #72

So we agree, it's how it used that we should be focused on. zaj Jun 2013 #74

1.) The Government is not private industry. Hissyspit Jun 2013 #85

Back out one level... zaj Jun 2013 #92

Employers, Credit issuers, Insurers, etc. using this type of data rucky Jun 2013 #86

100% zaj Jun 2013 #91

Why are you not concerned? hobbit709 Jun 2013 #107

Because the 4th Amendment. Because a chilling effect upon dissent and protest. Because paranoia. Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #119