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WillyT

(72,631 posts)
19. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 06:37 PM
Jun 2013

<snip>

For most Americans, the main concern will be domestic spying, and the chronic lack of oversight that Snowden’s leaks have highlighted. In the years since 9/11, the spying agencies have been given great leeway to expand their activities, with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act Court, which deals with legal requests from the agencies, and the congressional intelligence committees, which nominally oversees all of their activities, all too often acting as rubber stamps rather than proper watchdogs.

Partly, that was due to lack of gumption and an eagerness to look tough on issues of counterterrorism. But it also reflected a lack of information. Just a couple of months ago, at a Senate hearing, Oregon Democrat Ron Wyden, one of the few legislators to sound any misgivings over the activities of the intelligence agencies, asked Clapper, “Does the N.S.A. collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?” To which Clapper replied: “No, sir.” (He added, “Not wittingly.”) At another hearing, General Keith Alexander, the director of the N.S.A., denied fourteen times that the agency had the technical capability to intercept e-mails and other online communications in the United States.

Thanks to Snowden, and what he told the Guardian and the Washington Post, we now have cause to doubt the truth of this testimony.
In Snowden’s words: “The N.S.A. has built an infrastructure that allows it to intercept almost everything. With this capability, the vast majority of human communications are automatically ingested without targeting. If I wanted to see your emails or your wife’s phone, all I have to do is use intercepts. I can get your emails, passwords, phone records, credit cards.”

Were Clapper and Alexander deliberately lying? If so, perhaps Snowden should be extradited to the United States and dragged into court—but only as part of a proceeding in which the two spymasters face charges of misleading Congress. I suppose you could make the argument that he is a naïve young man who didn’t fully understand the dangerous nature of the world in which we live. You could question his motives, and call him a publicity seeker, or an idiot. (Fleeing to Hong Kong wasn’t very smart.) But he doesn’t sound like an airhead; he sounds like that most awkward and infuriating of creatures—a man of conscience. “I don’t want to live in a society that does these sort of things,” he told Greenwald. “I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded. That is not something I am willing to support or live under.”

<snip>

Same...

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Why Edward Snowden Is a Hero [View all] Catherina Jun 2013 OP
Does the writer jehop61 Jun 2013 #1
Evidently. Or just doesn't mind lying. nt kelliekat44 Jun 2013 #4
The issue is sucking up all digital and phone communications usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #12
You should educate yourself. The data is phone numbers. There is no fucking communication. bluestate10 Jun 2013 #43
not according to the recent revelations usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #44
Hasn't most of this been debunked? JaneyVee Jun 2013 #2
Nothing is ever debunked. OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #6
Legal, but unethical. backscatter712 Jun 2013 #11
Maybe. They took threats to national security pretty seriously. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #14
The cult of national security demands absolute obedience. backscatter712 Jun 2013 #17
There was, like, this court order. MineralMan Jun 2013 #3
Sucking up all digital & phone comm violates the 4th admendment usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #13
Actually, SCOTUS ruled it legal, although it may be unethical. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #18
Not True - In fact every-time this issue is brought before the courts it gets thrown out usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #20
Here's the case legal scholars point to: JaneyVee Jun 2013 #21
lol - from 1979, about 1 persons phone, please do not waste peoples time with this usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #22
You can LOL all you want. But you're looking at the legal scholar definition of why metadata JaneyVee Jun 2013 #23
this is about more than just meta data, this is about harvesting and storing ALL comm usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #24
SCOTUS will decide. MineralMan Jun 2013 #25
Well let's hope so, so far they have vigorously avoided the question but Sonwden also revealed names usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #27
I will let you know what I think MineralMan Jun 2013 #30
You can't answer a straight forward question? Good to know. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #31
He didn't confirm anything. He alleged something then disappeared. randome Jun 2013 #5
Apparently... OilemFirchen Jun 2013 #7
I think I saw him on the Dulles C train with Elvis. HipChick Jun 2013 #9
And why he's not (Josh Marshall) frazzled Jun 2013 #8
That is an excellent piece. randome Jun 2013 #28
Yeah, it reflected my feelings pretty well frazzled Jun 2013 #33
Meh. Not a hero, not a villian n/t leftstreet Jun 2013 #10
A hero would've taken the info to a friendly Congressman's office NightWatcher Jun 2013 #15
Snowden exposed the warmongers who spy on America for what they are. Octafish Jun 2013 #16
HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #19
Definitely...but the Celebrity DU'er Crowd thinks he's been Discredited KoKo Jun 2013 #26
Edward Snowden ProSense Jun 2013 #29
Is Edward Snowden A Traitor? - If He Is, So Was Daniel Ellsberg. - Slate usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #34
He is not a hero, I was aware the data was being collected. He is a thief for stealing information Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #32
Kick !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #35
He's a hero, despite the quislings' best efforts to delegitamize him. -nt- b.durruti Jun 2013 #36
You're too late, he's already been found to be a liar, a traitor, and a fugitive on the run. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #37
Whatever he is, he started a conversation that needs to be had. Autumn Jun 2013 #38
I think it takes a hero to stand up against a trillion dollar machine that protects capital, kills Catherina Jun 2013 #39
You are so right on that. I read that he has more to release Autumn Jun 2013 #40
Me too. Greenwald already said he can't release it all Catherina Jun 2013 #42
A person makes vague allusions to abuses, without giving one example of abuse. bluestate10 Jun 2013 #41
He's not, he's a traitor. RB TexLa Jun 2013 #45
A hero to the CATO Institute, sure. ucrdem Jun 2013 #46
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