General Discussion

blackspade

(10,056 posts)

174. Cynicism is like most 'isms,' is subjective.

Tue Jun 11, 2013, 09:13 PM

Jun 2013

You seem to be taking something totally different from the OP than I.

As for proof that the that the FISA courts don't work, well, there is no proof that they do either.
And based on some of the new data coming out about these programs, they don't appear to be working as advertized.
The problem is a lack of transparency to the process.

As for them always being wrong, I don't see that they are, but I also don't see that they aren't. Without proper oversight by Congress or other independent agency there is no way of knowing one way or the other. Given the history attached to this and earlier programs, it is not far fetched to assume that there are shady goings on.

I assume that most government employees are pretty honest having been one and worked with them for the last 2 decades.
But, I know from experience that it only takes a few corrupt individuals in positions of power to undermine and pervert a department.

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You have to be utterly ignorant of history, in a state of denial, dumb as grits or [View all] cali Jun 2013 OP

K&R. MotherPetrie Jun 2013 #1

Maybe we should cut the government's funds and shrink government until JoePhilly Jun 2013 #2

what on earth does that have to do with my op? cali Jun 2013 #5

Well ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #7

lol Skittles Jun 2013 #9

It was a stretch Le Taz Hot Jun 2013 #109

Maybe we could, you know, oversee what these overly funded, runaway agencies are doing sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #14

Wait� so you think the Government� which the OP trashes initially, is the solution? KittyWampus Jun 2013 #51

Please tell us what you think the "solution" is. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #66

To misrepresent H2O Man Jun 2013 #23

It isn't misrepresenting because it's exactly the premise used by those who want to kill KittyWampus Jun 2013 #49

It absolutely is H2O Man Jun 2013 #58

x2 AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #155

We need a strong, capable government that is interested in JDPriestly Jun 2013 #32

That's it in a nutshell pscot Jun 2013 #76

1st step pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #97

Great Video pmorlan1 Jun 2013 #98

Melber was on fire! grasswire Jun 2013 #101

but I said nothing of the sort, genius. And you know that. cali Jun 2013 #84

Wrong Blog fjlovato Jun 2013 #144

We should limpyhobbler Jun 2013 #160

you're not leaving them any options, cali Skittles Jun 2013 #8

From what I read lately on DU, (including in this OP) we're all doomed. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #12

you need to stop with the black and white thinking Skittles Jun 2013 #15

I've read those things on DU. Multiple times. Today. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #25

I've read the leak was a Bush family conspiracy to embarass Obama DirkGently Jun 2013 #27

No, the OP is putting for the usual Libertarian position treestar Jun 2013 #118

like joe, you must be reading either the wrong OP... blackspade Jun 2013 #156

You were reading an imaginary OP treestar Jun 2013 #173

Cynicism is like most 'isms,' is subjective. blackspade Jun 2013 #174

The people didn't vote for Booz Allen or any other Private Security firm, nor did we vote for sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #18

Do you vote for every appointed official in all parts of the government? JoePhilly Jun 2013 #26

Gerrymandering usaf-vet Jun 2013 #128

True, but only effects the House. JoePhilly Jun 2013 #131

It means they have kill Democracy as we know it. usaf-vet Jun 2013 #149

Totally doomed, man BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #37

No, many of us aren't defending the indefensible. We are just sticking to FACTS. KittyWampus Jun 2013 #53

no, you are not seeing the big picture Skittles Jun 2013 #56

really, hon? what part of my op isn't factual? do tell. cali Jun 2013 #85

oh please, blind partisans never stick to facts. if the facts are wrong then you spin like a top. n boilerbabe Jun 2013 #88

+1 treestar Jun 2013 #119

Looks to me like when someone points out an iceberg that some immediately rhett o rick Jun 2013 #143

lol.....you said circle jerk. nt clarice Jun 2013 #151

And what facts would those be? blackspade Jun 2013 #158

It's just an unsubtle way of suggesting that you're a Rovian Stooge for suggesting that the Admin is leveymg Jun 2013 #60

apparently if you dare ever question the government at all you are siding with the republicans and liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #86

Government bureaucracies treestar Jun 2013 #116

I knew you'd slip up and expose yourself one day. We all know where that came from. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #68

More misguided DU "OUTRAGE"... SkyDaddy7 Jun 2013 #122

Fine, and congress authorized it, and because we are a representative government, people voted for still_one Jun 2013 #3

I don't think a lot of these folks were actually elected. reusrename Jun 2013 #64

I disagree. 2008 proves that. 2000 also proves that still_one Jun 2013 #67

I have to wonder if what Congress supposedly authorized Abq_Sarah Jun 2013 #102

Even the movie 9/11 discussed this. Now, in the movie a Congress person indicated most never read still_one Jun 2013 #139

80 billion a year for security.... mike_c Jun 2013 #4

You didn't mention one thing. david13 Jun 2013 #6

"the people" H2O Man Jun 2013 #13

Shorter version: Abq_Sarah Jun 2013 #103

This: Hissyspit Jun 2013 #20

Interesting. Both parties are moving in different directions on this. totodeinhere Jun 2013 #74

which just goes to show you how many political hacks there are posting on political websites. HiPointDem Jun 2013 #95

Yet in 2002, liberals were more supportive of liberty-restricting laws like the USA PATRIOT Act. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #135

The people have been conditioned and lied to, that's why WHEN CRABS ROAR Jun 2013 #157

In America. Egalitarian Thug Jun 2013 #10

+10 RC Jun 2013 #40

And you have to ProSense Jun 2013 #11

I thought President Obama was supposed to be different... YoungDemCA Jun 2013 #19

Thank you markpkessinger Jun 2013 #39

Don't you think the 2011 ruling on the Obama administration's illegal spying DirkGently Jun 2013 #24

++++ B Calm Jun 2013 #34

Smith v. Maryland was decided in 1979 before the advent of today's JDPriestly Jun 2013 #38

^^^THIS^^^ Zoeisright Jun 2013 #50

+1 uponit7771 Jun 2013 #80

There is an issue here though blackspade Jun 2013 #161

There is no "defense side" for any warrant application jberryhill Jun 2013 #16

I'm going with "mindless partisanship." The sputtering is hilarious. DirkGently Jun 2013 #17

Well said. YoungDemCA Jun 2013 #21

My biggest worry, based on our history... aquart Jun 2013 #31

You can't make a law legalizing violating the Constitution. DirkGently Jun 2013 #42

Grits aren't dumb. I like grits. Apart from that: carry on. Nuclear Unicorn Jun 2013 #22

Hey, I was going to say that! Adam-Bomb Jun 2013 #83

Uh huh. aquart Jun 2013 #28

K&R! G_j Jun 2013 #29

I'm Gonna Go With E:)... All Of The Above... WillyT Jun 2013 #30

Alot of name-calling going on on DU as of late. I don't like it. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #33

Hide the thread or ignore the poster HangOnKids Jun 2013 #41

Meh. I have zero people on ignore, and hiding threads doesn't help the insults & hyperbole. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #43

This is a rough board HangOnKids Jun 2013 #44

Ha. IDemo Jun 2013 #82

Agreed. Look at all the govt violations that were uncovered by the Church Committee decades ago. avaistheone1 Jun 2013 #35

But but but Phlem Jun 2013 #36

I love the title to your post..content as well..but the title just lays it out..thanks..nt xiamiam Jun 2013 #45

Let's just say your hypothesis is correct... d06204 Jun 2013 #46

By instilling a climate of distrust and fear of our government? blackspade Jun 2013 #162

Your opening premise= Gover Norquist's wet dream. NOW- if you'd opened w/need to cut out private KittyWampus Jun 2013 #47

what absolute horse pucky. cali Jun 2013 #146

k&r for the truth, however depressing it may be. n/t Laelth Jun 2013 #48

So how do you propose we fix that problem? DCBob Jun 2013 #52

Nothing to propose other than scrap the whole thing, and fire the gov. workers there. Amonester Jun 2013 #106

You have such a distinct turn of phrase. LWolf Jun 2013 #54

But..but..it's absolutely essential to keep the scary bogeymen, like Snowden and Manning, at bay. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #55

I can agree with this entire post, but obxhead Jun 2013 #57

I guess Al Franken is a mindless partisan OKNancy Jun 2013 #59

I'll go with my own Senator, thank you very much. And Bernie thinks it's deplorable. cali Jun 2013 #87

as will I - I stand with Bernie on this one. piratefish08 Jun 2013 #172

very well said! liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #61

What the hell, did you get up on the wrong side of the bed this afternoon or something? Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #62

Damn, you missed the whole barn. reusrename Jun 2013 #69

She does every damn day, Major Ishoutandscream2 Jun 2013 #152

that was uncalled for blackspade Jun 2013 #163

Really? You like the way she talks down to people? Ishoutandscream2 Jun 2013 #164

Other that the use of 'honey'.... blackspade Jun 2013 #167

We're all Germans now. blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #63

"And we thought we were free". nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #70

I think we're turning Japanese. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #137

I am afraid that I cannot agree. grantcart Jun 2013 #65

It has very little to do with Al Queda and much more to do with OWS. reusrename Jun 2013 #113

When I voted libdude Jun 2013 #71

Good post, libdude. Le Taz Hot Jun 2013 #110

obviously - but the public has been so deeply indoctrinated to be afraid of its own Shadow - it Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #72

Republicans shifted because they're racist upi402 Jun 2013 #78

we know that - but what is the Democrats excuse for such a dramatic change in position? Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #96

cali timdog44 Jun 2013 #73

Somewhat pertinent. timdog44 Jun 2013 #75

I don't have you on ignore RainDog Jun 2013 #81

Thanks RainDog. timdog44 Jun 2013 #100

Thanks to you, timdog44 RainDog Jun 2013 #148

yes, and it is WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! upi402 Jun 2013 #77

I love Grits..they ain't Dumb...but BLAND... GOOD POST! K&R KoKo Jun 2013 #79

Damn you. Bucky Jun 2013 #117

It seems to me that older DU members are defending the indefensible Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #89

And thanks to the many youngsters who didn't vote in 2010 otohara Jun 2013 #105

I'm an "older member of DU" Le Taz Hot Jun 2013 #111

Or, you have to be waiting for evidence of abuse of powers bhikkhu Jun 2013 #90

Sometimes it takes 50 years for us to learn about the abuses the government commits. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #91

no it's not blustery or foolish. It's common sense and a knowledge of history, honey. cali Jun 2013 #92

You probably are right bhikkhu Jun 2013 #94

J. Edgar Hoover Le Taz Hot Jun 2013 #112

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jun 2013 #93

You could also be someone who expects to become rich from the abuse of national security. Kablooie Jun 2013 #99

Yep, that horse left the barn a long time ago, and Donovan was not juajen Jun 2013 #104

K and R ReRe Jun 2013 #107

Amen nradisic Jun 2013 #108

it's okay when Pres. Obama does it. not Bush though - because he was evil. I read it on the DU. piratefish08 Jun 2013 #114

LOL warrant46 Jun 2013 #165

That would apply to any bureaucracy treestar Jun 2013 #115

Those in, for instance, the welfare bureaucracy, don't have the kind of power cali Jun 2013 #120

Quit calling me honey treestar Jun 2013 #121

OK. and my ability to debate is certainly far better than yours. debate requires some cali Jun 2013 #123

I can debate far better than you can treestar Jun 2013 #126

Capabilities WovenGems Jun 2013 #124

I have a question. timdog44 Jun 2013 #125

It can't find WovenGems Jun 2013 #127

It would be very hard to live "off the grid" today unless you had a lot of cash buried somewhere. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #129

And I don't know how true this is timdog44 Jun 2013 #134

Just because you dont know where he is doesnt mean the govment doesnt know. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #130

You are quite right timdog44 Jun 2013 #138

I think the problem is that technology is advancing faster than we can control. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #140

I was just thinking that and timdog44 Jun 2013 #142

Well, us little people that need loans, have to allow personal intrusion when applying for jobs Babel_17 Jun 2013 #132

The Nazis had a "court system" too. CanonRay Jun 2013 #133

FISA approve almost all because appeals courts have already ruled the President can do this. stevenleser Jun 2013 #136

I'm quite aware of that cali Jun 2013 #147

I already rec'd this but it needs a double rec Catherina Jun 2013 #141

thanks cali Jun 2013 #145

I can't dwell on how depressing it is Catherina Jun 2013 #170

Completely agree that these agencies are abusing their power. But are you saying AnnieK401 Jun 2013 #150

I guess the only sort of solution I see at this point is far greater congressional oversight cali Jun 2013 #153

Outsourced even! PuraVidaDreamin Jun 2013 #154

no outrage in 2006 w/ NO WARRANT! i call BS on the gnews media. pansypoo53219 Jun 2013 #159

Grits are not dumb. Are_grits_groceries Jun 2013 #166

And your point? What has actually happened to you as a result? Local police abuse their power ever kelliekat44 Jun 2013 #168

are you kidding? do a freakin' search and you'll quickly find a lot of outrage over police cali Jun 2013 #169

Kick & recommended. William769 Jun 2013 #171